Chum Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, bOObOO said: It is a difficult issue to talk about, isn't it. It is for those who spend their lives recovering from spare-the-rod adults. 6 minutes ago, bOObOO said: When if ever is it appropriate to use physical force to discipline a child 'Appropriate' as in Am I Justified. 10 minutes ago, bOObOO said: I am not one of those who believes it is never appropriate Still using appropriate - and not words that focus on the child's long term welfare - like beneficial. 12 minutes ago, bOObOO said: I believe it is sometimes necessary. Preferably without getting too bloody. You'd of gotten on well with my dad. Sorry I don't have pics of my mom in traction to share with you. 2
Chum Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 11 minutes ago, bOObOO said: I would appreciate someone explaining to me why they think I earned it. I didn't say you did. I offered that you could pretend you did, as striking vulnerable folks seems to be in your comfort zone.
The Nehor Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) Fun fact: The “Spare the rod, spoil the child” thing is actually not from the Bible. It is a possible abbreviation of it. The phrase comes from a 17th century erotic comedy poem and it is a triple entendre and one meaning is about sadism and masochism in what we would now call BDSM. Edit: It tickles me every time I hear some Christian talk about the Bible and use that phrase as justification for beating kids. A phrase that was probably picked up by 17th century Christian “perverts” who somehow started using it to justify hurting kids. Ewwww, and LOL! Edited August 12, 2021 by The Nehor
bOObOO Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, Chum said: It is for those who spend their lives recovering from spare-the-rod adults. 'Appropriate' as in Am I Justified. Still using appropriate - and not words that focus on the child's long term welfare - like beneficial. You'd of gotten on well with my dad. Sorry I don't have pics of my mom in traction to share with you. You're being unkind now. You should stop being unkind to me and start being kind to me. Your unkindness to me is not appropriate. You have no good reason to be unkind to me. Emotional abuse is just as bad as physical abuse. I'm not abusive and I'm not talking about being abusive. Being abusive is never a good thing, whether the abuse is emotional or physical. Physical discipline doesn't need to be abusive to be effective and appropriate. Physical discipline can be a good thing if done appropriately, even if the one being disciplined may not like being disciplined. -2
bOObOO Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Fun fact: The “Spare the rod, spoil the child” thing is actually not from the Bible. It is a possible abbreviation of it. The phrase comes from a 17th century erotic comedy poem and it is a triple entendre and one meaning is about sadism and masochism in what we would now call BDSM. It tickles me every time I hear some Old English - Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them. -1
The Nehor Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 8 minutes ago, bOObOO said: Old English - Proverbs 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes. Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them. I don’t think you understood a thing I said. Now get on the spanking bench for daring to talk back to me.
Chum Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 (edited) 12 minutes ago, bOObOO said: Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them. In which we see centuries of Bronze Age boomers retranslating scripture fragments. Also here. Exodus 21:15 And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death. Exodus 21:17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. Leviticus 20:9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. Matthew 15:4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death. Ancient parents seem pretty snowflakey Edited August 12, 2021 by Chum
Chum Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 22 minutes ago, bOObOO said: You're being unkind now. How can you tell? 22 minutes ago, bOObOO said: You should stop being unkind to me and start being kind to me. Your unkindness to me is not appropriate. You have no good reason to be unkind to me. I'm not abusive and I'm not talking about being abusive. Being abusive is never a good thing, whether the abuse is emotional or physical. Bot generated keywording is a novel approach to growing PTSD. 25 minutes ago, bOObOO said: Physical discipline doesn't need to be abusive to be effective and appropriate. Bad premise make the best mantra. 28 minutes ago, bOObOO said: Physical discipline can be a good thing if done appropriately, even if the one being disciplined may not like being disciplined. Sure. Consensual exercise is all those things.
Maestrophil Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 On 8/11/2021 at 2:24 AM, Metis_LDS said: I think a thread about anger might be useful right now. I have had much experience with anger when growing up and was taught on how to be angry by example. Now that I am in my sixties I find that slow burning anger takes too much energy. I can still do bursts of anger. So here are some ideas for you all to write on (they are sincere). 1. Without a dictionary explain anger. 2. Do you feel in control when angry or is the opposite or a combination? 3. Have you ever wondered "Why did I get so angry about that"? 4. At some point do most persons who believe in God get angry at him? 1. Anger is a secondary emotion that is used to cover up sadness or shame or some other primary emotion. 2. I don't feel in control until I identify the REAl primary emotion I feel and deal with that instead. I can process being sad or embarrassed - Anger, in my case, just needs to be expressed or repressed - I don't have good tools to diffuse it. 3. Often - and it lasways leads me to search for and fix what ˆreally ˆhappened in my heart and mind. 4. I don't understand the concept of being angry at God - either He is all-knowing and understands the purpose of all my trails - in which case, I need to tust Him - or he isn't and then He isn't God at all. If I acknowledge God, I don't see how I can be angry at Him. I can be sad with some of the things I pass through and let that turn into anger... but see pts. 1 and 2 3
Metis_LDS Posted August 12, 2021 Author Posted August 12, 2021 16 minutes ago, Maestrophil said: . Anger is a secondary emotion that is used to cover up sadness or shame or some other primary emotion. Wow I have never heard this before, I will have to ponder it. Thanks! 2
bOObOO Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 59 minutes ago, Chum said: How can you tell? Bot generated keywording is a novel approach to growing PTSD. Bad premise make the best mantra. Sure. Consensual exercise is all those things. Consent does make a big difference. Children are supposed to submit to their parents as those who are in authority over them, and we are and will always remain children of our parents as long as we are sealed to them. Trauma is a result of things not going as they should, not from discipline. My Dad showed his love to me both before and after he spanked me when I was a child. Looking back now, I have nothing but fond memories of all of his efforts to discipline me.
Tacenda Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: Fun fact: The “Spare the rod, spoil the child” thing is actually not from the Bible. It is a possible abbreviation of it. The phrase comes from a 17th century erotic comedy poem and it is a triple entendre and one meaning is about sadism and masochism in what we would now call BDSM. Edit: It tickles me every time I hear some Christian talk about the Bible and use that phrase as justification for beating kids. A phrase that was probably picked up by 17th century Christian “perverts” who somehow started using it to justify hurting kids. Ewwww, and LOL! They need to extract that garbage scripture right on out of the bible, along with many other scriptures that cause harm.
Calm Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 5 hours ago, Canadiandude said: don’t know how to ‘like’ as of yet but I totally concur! You will be able to like or dislike posts, start your own threads, and edit your posts at 25 posts.
Maestrophil Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 40 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said: Wow I have never heard this before, I will have to ponder it. Thanks! Thank therapy 🙂 1
Calm Posted August 12, 2021 Posted August 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Maestrophil said: Anger is a secondary emotion that is used to cover up sadness or shame or some other primary emotion. I would say that fear is the fundamental negative emotion that drives other negative emotions, fear of loss can lead to sadness or anger, fear of rejection can lead to embarrassment or anger. Anger is usually an attempt to protect the self or what the self cares about. ”Fear is the mind killer” is a brilliant phrase Imo. https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Litany_Against_Fear 2
Chum Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 3 hours ago, bOObOO said: Children are supposed to submit to their parents as those who are in authority over them, and we are and will always remain children of our parents as long as we are sealed to them. It is my long and consistent experience that parenting is what occurs when adults fully embrace their duty to serve the children entrusted to their care. Placing demands of submission, obedience or any other one-sided behavior on children is what adults do who have lost (or never known or were never interested in knowing) their way. In our home are me and my 5 sons. Disharmony is so vanishingly rare here that I can't remember any of them raising their voice in anger. They are well adjusted, productive, supportive and ambitious. In as much as they submit, they are following my example of submission to them. Through this, we've developed deep trust instead of the hesitancy and mistrust that are the hallmarks of spare-the-rod parenting. Adults who demand submission without submitting are demanding children learn without the only lesson that works - the precise, consistent example of submission. 2
Calm Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, Chum said: Adults who demand submission without submitting are demanding children learn without the only lesson that works - the precise, consistent example of submission. Quote 33Then they came to Capernaum. While Jesus was in the house, He asked them, “What were you discussing on the way?” 34But they were silent, for on the way they had been arguing about which of them was the greatest. 35Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, “If anyone wants to be first, he must be the last of all and the servant of all.” 36Then He had a little child stand among them. Taking the child in His arms, He said to them,37“Whoever welcomes one of these little children in My name welcomes Me, and whoever welcomes Me welcomes not only Me, but the One who sent Me.” https://biblehub.com/bsb/mark/9.htm 1
Chum Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Calm said: I would say that fear is the fundamental negative emotion that drives other negative emotions, fear of loss can lead to sadness or anger, fear of rejection can lead to embarrassment or anger. Anger is usually an attempt to protect the self or what the self cares about. Pretty much whenever I follow a thread connected to bad behavior, I find feelings of helplessness at the other end. 2
Maestrophil Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Calm said: I would say that fear is the fundamental negative emotion that drives other negative emotions, fear of loss can lead to sadness or anger, fear of rejection can lead to embarrassment or anger. Anger is usually an attempt to protect the self or what the self cares about. ”Fear is the mind killer” is a brilliant phrase Imo. https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Litany_Against_Fear I would agree that fear is very primary and primal. I think there are times sadness can exist without fear and that sadness/sorrow can drive anger. But I think those two emotions might cover all underlying anger 1
Calm Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Chum said: Pretty much whenever I follow a thread connected to bad behavior, I find feelings of helplessness at the other end. Fear and helplessness…do you see those as different or pretty much the same? I see them as essentially the same, loss of a sense of control over one’s life, but can see why someone else might see it differently. Fear might be viewed as more primal, physical reaction and helplessness as a more mental experience.
Calm Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Maestrophil said: I would agree that fear is very primary and primal. I think there are times sadness can exist without fear and that sadness/sorrow can drive anger. But I think those two emotions might cover all underlying anger Untangling root causes and giving names to them is probably ultimately not that accurate since emotion is a complex interaction of biochemicals and stuff/physical and ideas/mental and the brain doesn’t compartmentalize emotion as much as we do with language. We might be better describing the experience as “cauldron of darkness I swim in today” and “cauldron of darkness I swam in when I was 14”, etc. and then list all the ingredients we can figure out with the “secret sauce” probably being the first ingredient on the list (meaning largest quantity).*** ***because putting names to our fear and pain can help, we just need to remember the name isn’t the whole of what we experience. We need to leave the door open for further light and knowledge even about our pain as part of the process of being healed, imo, even when we can ‘move on’. Edited August 13, 2021 by Calm
3DOP Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 On 8/11/2021 at 3:24 AM, Metis_LDS said: I think a thread about anger might be useful right now. I have had much experience with anger when growing up and was taught on how to be angry by example. Now that I am in my sixties I find that slow burning anger takes too much energy. I can still do bursts of anger. So here are some ideas for you all to write on (they are sincere). 1. Without a dictionary explain anger. 2. Do you feel in control when angry or is the opposite or a combination? 3. Have you ever wondered "Why did I get so angry about that"? 4. At some point do most persons who believe in God get angry at him? Upvote now...Ideas later...without a dictionary!
Metis_LDS Posted August 13, 2021 Author Posted August 13, 2021 45 minutes ago, 3DOP said: Upvote now...Ideas later...without a dictionary! I see you are a Tolstoy fan. Did you know that even at the height of communism newly weds would visit his grave. When I saw this I knew communism would some day fall in Russia. Please tell me you have read his short story "What Men Live By".
Canadiandude Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 6 hours ago, Calm said: You will be able to like or dislike posts, start your own threads, and edit your posts at 25 posts. Oh goodie! Much obliged. Always frustrating to realize one’s grammatical and spelling errors post-submission. I’ll be getting there, eventually. This is a good topic. I feel like there’s something kinda sacred about anger that while raw, can be pretty empowering.
Tacenda Posted August 13, 2021 Posted August 13, 2021 9 hours ago, Chum said: It is for those who spend their lives recovering from spare-the-rod adults. 'Appropriate' as in Am I Justified. Still using appropriate - and not words that focus on the child's long term welfare - like beneficial. You'd of gotten on well with my dad. Sorry I don't have pics of my mom in traction to share with you. Sorry you had that kind of trauma Chum. Your poor mom too!
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