Covid cases, hospitalizations, death trends and other touchy subjects…

[MustardSeed]

I believe that no mask is 100%, but I believe they help slow things down. I also have always and will continue to cover my face when I sneeze and cough.  It’s certainly not a guarantee protection for others but I can’t imagine abandoning that practice simply because it’s imperfect.  
I will wear an N95 mask when I’m public, as I am assuming it protects you a little more in case I’ve got it and I’m also believing  it protects me a tiny bit more assuming anyone else has it.  
 

If that makes me an idiot I can live with that.  Covid sucks for EVERYONE.  The losses of lifestyle are so hard for so many of us to cope with.  

Edited September 5, 2021 by MustardSeed

[Rain]

 

32 minutes ago, juliann said:

Don't want to get into all the rest, but "masks" are not all equal. So there couldn't be a "scientific" consensus without studying each homemade mask, or single layer whatever bought off the shelf along with how much leakage there is. Nothing is going to be scientific until we stop the any mask at all is magic nonsense. 

I really liked the thing posted a few weeks ago showing the effectiveness of different types of masks and different ways of wearing them.  I was surprised that the least effective mask was still stopping 26%.  Obviously nothing compared to 50, 75, 90%+, but still stopped some.  

That gave me hope and gave me a good reason to continue wearing masks most everywhere. It isn't going to stop it all, but maybe it can slow it down.

[Ragerunner]

46 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Yea how did that work in Sweden?  How is it going in Florida?

Here in Florida I have never been surrounded by so much sickness and death at my job and at church in my life. 

[Ragerunner]

2 hours ago, Robert J Anderson said:

California v. Florida numbers showed that mask mandates didn't affect the infection numbers. 

People like to use this statement but it’s just not true. Until June of this year about 70-80% of Florida’s population and schools were under mandatory mask requirements through local governments in all the major metros. Matter of fact the local governments ‘saved’ the governor by putting safety restrictions in place when he would not.

Starting this summer he took away the ability for local governments and schools to implement safety requirements and mask mandates. Look what happened. Florida became one of the hottest Covid locations in the world. 
 

Florida is actually a great example of how mask and safety protocols helped a lot until they were all take away. Then we paid a very high price and still are.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Ragerunner

[CV75]

3 hours ago, Chum said:

I think it's more like politics than religion. At least the part where a political interest hijacks a neutral topic and spins it into a dystopic wasteland that forces adherents to accept the new dogma or risk being branded a heretic....  No, wait. It is religion. Sorry.

I laugh, but people are willing to give their lives for a cause. Maybe that's why I laugh!

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, Rain said:

One of my mom's good friends died this morning.

A family at church got covid this week so we are staying home.  Luckily we had been released from primary for our first week when they would have been there, but we don't know if it spread or not.  Haven't heard how they were doing since they asked for meals for then on Wednesday.

Does your stake require masks?

[Bernard Gui]

4 hours ago, juliann said:

It totally depends on what your mask is made of, how tight it is to your face, and how it is worn. No one does anyone favors by using "mask" as if it is a one size fits all thing. 

Thank you. Mask protection is reduced by not following protocols. In fact, they can become more dangerous as a result. 

Sister Gui would have had to spend all the school class time fiddling with masks if she had been required to follow CDC guidelines with her kindergartners. By the end of the day, their masks were a wet gooey mess.

Edited September 6, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

It seems pretty convenient to simply dismiss the preponderance of evidence and the scientific consensus when it does not confirm your bias. Masks do prevent the spread. You are simply incorrect.  No mask mandates were not an overreaction.  1% morality rate it high. 300 million infected means 3 million dead. We saw and are seeing once again that hospital are being overwhelmed with covid cases so there is a ripple effect. Deaths from Covid at 650 K and many experts think it is higher and then add deaths from non Covid infections but pandemic related and we could be at 900k.  Mild Covid only helps build immunity for the variant you get. Not for others. Not so with the vaccine. God help us with people like you that refuse to follow the real science. If we have have a pandemic as contagious as covid with a 5% plus mortality rate we are doomed.

Then shouldn’t we be anxiously shutting everything down again and restoring the previous draconian measures that we were told were the consensus back at the start of all this?

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

Study away!  If they are effective then use it. Problem is ivermectin has not been through any rigorous blind studies.  People scream about the vaccine.  Well guess what?  Billions have been vaccinates.  Hundreds of millions in the US. Very few problems.  Yet you are promoting horse de wormer and it has not been through any substantive clinical trials for Covid treatment.  Yet ant vaxxers are drinking this stuff.  You cannot  make  this stuff up.

Yet now we are being told that the vaccines may have a shorter effectiveness window than previously thought.

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Teancum said:

I never said that any mask is magic so I don't really need to argue the point.  

In the real world that we all live in, however, just about anything goes when it comes to masks. Been to the store lately?

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, juliann said:

Don't want to get into all the rest, but "masks" are not all equal. So there couldn't be a "scientific" consensus without studying each homemade mask, or single layer whatever bought off the shelf along with how much leakage there is. Nothing is going to be scientific until we stop the any mask at all is magic nonsense. 

Or bandanas, neck gaiters, or t-shirts pulled up over the face or as we saw yesterday, a stylish silk headscarf covering nose, mouth, and over have the chest. Beautiful colors, but false sense of security?

Edited September 5, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

I believe that no mask is 100%, but I believe they help slow things down. I also have always and will continue to cover my face when I sneeze and cough.  It’s certainly not a guarantee protection for others but I can’t imagine abandoning that practice simply because it’s imperfect.  
I will wear an N95 mask when I’m public, as I am assuming it protects you a little more in case I’ve got it and I’m also believing  it protects me a tiny bit more assuming anyone else has it.  
 

If that makes me an idiot I can live with that.  Covid sucks for EVERYONE.  The losses of lifestyle are so hard for so many of us to cope with.  

Tiny bit? How tiny is it?

The problem is the vast majority of folks that I observe who don’t spring for N95 or NK95 masks. If we are serious about mask mandates, then mandate those. And take measures to enforce proper mask protocols

Edited September 5, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[MustardSeed]

16 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Tiny bit? How tiny is it?

The problem is the vast majority of folks that I observe who don’t spring for N95 or NK95 masks. If we are serious about mask mandates, then mandate those. And take measures to enforce proper mask protocols

This would be ideal. If we want to save lives we need more restrictions not less. 
 

(That should go over like a you know what in a punch bowl.)

This nightmare will continue forever I fear.  
 

if you were in charge, what would you like to have happen? 

Edited September 5, 2021 by MustardSeed

[BlueDreams]

I’m kinda surprised this research hasn’t made the rounds yet: https://www.poverty-action.org/study/impact-mask-distribution-and-promotion-mask-uptake-and-covid-19-bangladesh

To note: it is currently pre peer-review. But the study the first (or at least one of the very few) to hit the gold standard in the medical research community. Meaning it’s a randomized trial, held in real world settings, and is large scale (~300k participants). The study focused on a few things: mask v no mask, cloth v surgical masks, and means to get adherence to proper mask wearing in lower income countries as well as how these effected social distancing. They were able to up the numbers of proper mask wearing from 14% to 43% in targeted villages. This increase (which note, isn’t even fully half the pop) showed decrease in symptomatic covid with masking. It was slight for cloth (5%) but significant for surgical (12, I believe) 

it supports the basic idea that mask is better than nothing, and better threaded masking (like surgical ones) are better overall. 
 

With luv, 
BD 

Edited September 5, 2021 by BlueDreams

[CV75]

I'm wondering if those who wouldn't follow the prophet on two earrings, but follow him on vaccination, have seen the light and have begun to follow/promote the piercing / tattoo counsel. That might help inspire people who have been following that counsel already to start following the prophet on vaccines.

[Bernard Gui]

56 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

This would be ideal. If we want to save lives we need more restrictions not less. 
 

(That should go over like a you know what in a punch bowl.)

This nightmare will continue forever I fear.  
 

if you were in charge, what would you like to have happen? 

Well that’s the $64,000 question, isn’t it.

[MustardSeed]

21 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I'm wondering if those who wouldn't follow the prophet on two earrings, but follow him on vaccination, have seen the light and have begun to follow/promote the piercing / tattoo counsel. That might help inspire people who have been following that counsel already to start following the prophet on vaccines.

Why do you pick those particular concerns? 

[CV75]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

This would be ideal. If we want to save lives we need more restrictions not less. 
 

(That should go over like a you know what in a punch bowl.)

This nightmare will continue forever I fear.  
 

if you were in charge, what would you like to have happen? 

Great question! If I were in charge, I would get the top leaders of the various faiths / denominations together in a series of PSAs promoting the best, (albeit in my administration's assessment), measures. I would get a collaborative of NGOs to produce and moderate easily-digested discussion panels of the top representatives from opposing opinions to civilly discuss their views.

[CV75]

7 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Why do you pick those particular concerns? 

Because they seem to be the primary example that has been presented on this board (that I have seen, at least) to demonstrate the fallacy of not following the prophet ion getting vaccinated. It must resonate with a good number of people for this to come up so often, so seems to be a good point to pursue.

[MustardSeed]

10 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Because they seem to be the primary example that has been presented on this board (that I have seen, at least) to demonstrate the fallacy of not following the prophet ion getting vaccinated. It must resonate with a good number of people for this to come up so often, so seems to be a good point to pursue.

I must have missed these.  
I got double pierced at 14.  I don’t feel like a sinner at all over that issue.  I also will get a tattoo next year.  I got the vaccine before it was discussed by the prophet.  I tend to be comfortable making my own choices with my body as long as it doesn’t preclude full participation in the gospel.  I grant the same rights to others as I decide who I will judge critically. 🤔

[pogi]

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

For example, masks are mandated for 20 elementary students in a classroom, but not for crowds of thousands of sports fans. In Uber-locked down Washington some public events like a boat fair are cancelled but the State Fair with up to a million visitors goes on.  

Sounds like politics to me, and has nothing to do with studies and evidence on masks/mandates.  

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Where do I stand on masking? That’s simple. I believe it can have some positive effect when observed properly. From what I can tell, that is the scientific consensus. From what I have observed, very few folks if any actually follow the protocols.

What do you make of the studies I have posted that suggest that mandates have helped, when you weigh them in the balance of your lone study?

Bernard, one thing is troubling me about all of this.  If you agree that masks can have a positive effect and save lives and reduce the burden of hospitals which are currently drowning, why don't you stand on the side of mask advocacy and education?   When people like Robert J Anderson come on here and start spewing things that you don't believe like "masks don't work", why are you antagonistic against my efforts to suggest to him that they do work.  If you truly believe what you say, you should be an ally with me to educate people like Robert J Anderson on the efficacy of masks and how to wear them properly. 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by pogi

[pogi]

2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Thank you. Mask protection is reduced by not following protocols. 

One thing is for certain however, not wearing a mask will not work every single time. 

Edited September 6, 2021 by pogi

[Peacefully]

3 hours ago, Ragerunner said:

People like to use this statement but it’s just not true. Until June of this year about 70-80% of Florida’s population and schools were under mandatory mask requirements through local governments in all the major metros. Matter of fact the local governments ‘saved’ the governor by putting safety restrictions in place when he would not.

Starting this summer he took away the ability for local governments and schools to implement safety requirements and mask mandates. Look what happened. Florida became one of the hottest Covid locations in the world. 
 

Florida is actually a great example of how mask and safety protocols helped a lot until they were all take away. Then we paid a very high price and still are.

Same here in Texas:(

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I think the inconsistency of the messages turns many people off. 

Which is precisely what people have been saying about prophets from at least the reign of Josiah till today.

[Peacefully]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

I'm wondering if those who wouldn't follow the prophet on two earrings, but follow him on vaccination, have seen the light and have begun to follow/promote the piercing / tattoo counsel. That might help inspire people who have been following that counsel already to start following the prophet on vaccines.

I’ve followed both. Does that inspire you to get vaccinated now?

Edited September 6, 2021 by Peacefully