Status of church

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 minute ago, secondclasscitizen said:

I did a tour in iraq and spent most of it on the road so I do know about recklessness. Throw in IEDs, RPGs and a smattering of gunfire just to add extra trepidation. Nepal would have been nice in comparison. 

Thank you for your service. It’s my understanding that over 7,000 soldiers died in the line of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan and that 2.8 million have served tours there. That’s a death rate of .25 percent. Now would you rather drive there, or drive in the United States? If we can lower that death rate from the hellish .25 percent to something that’s only a fraction of that shouldn’t we? 

[Rain]

@rongohoping the best for your Gila Bend people tonight.  The storm is sounding pretty rough over here. I hope they escape more damage.

[Calm]

 

 

26 minutes ago, Emily said:

they become the vector that will eventually kill someone.

They could***.  If they are lucky, the people they infect are more cautious and are trying to socially distance as much as possible and if they become aware they are infected, maybe they will quarantine soon enough to kill that batch of virus off without it stepping to someone else.
 

But depending on someone else to save society for you while doing nothing yourself, isn’t that socialism?  
 

How is your dad doing? 
 

***I am guessing you were typing too fast and left out the “could”.  I tend to do that a lot.  And you have other things weighing on your mind obviously. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Calm

[Hamba Tuhan]

30 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Perpetual fear from here to eternity. 

I find up-to-date information reduces fear.

If we have lab-based evidence that naturally acquired antibodies don't do much against Delta, then I want to know that so that I can use that information going forward.

But to each his own, certainly.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[secondclasscitizen]

30 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Thank you for your service. It’s my understanding that over 7,000 soldiers died in the line of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan and that 2.8 million have served tours there. That’s a death rate of .25 percent. Now would you rather drive there, or drive in the United States? If we can lower that death rate from the hellish .25 percent to something that’s only a fraction of that shouldn’t we? 

I can shoot back there lol. 
 

the death rate there was nominal for a war and don’t forget the 30k plus wounded. Still small potatoes for a war.

and before anyone accuses me of being callous about it about 48 of my troops were wounded over there along with me so I was no bean counter in the sidelines. We got into the thick of it and sent many to see their 72 virgins. 
 

casuslties are a reality of war and we need to keep their numbers in perspective just like this COVID fight.

Casualties start impacting the us military ability to wage war when they are in the 10% range.

 I wasn’t complaining about it just making a point your Nepal traffic experience while interesting is cute in comparison.

Edited August 16, 2021 by secondclasscitizen

[secondclasscitizen]

42 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Perpetual fear from here to eternity. As soon as Delta is corralled, over there, lurking around the corner, is the dreaded Lambda Variant waiting to pounce.😱 But not to worry. There are plenty of Greek letters left before we reach Omega. 
https://nypost.com/2021/08/12/deadly-lambda-covid-19-variant-could-be-vaccine-resistant/

Yep by design it will never end. Not till every business smaller than apple, Amazon and Walmart are gone. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

15 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

don’t forget the 30k plus wounded.

Have you heard of long Covid?

15 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

 I wasn’t complaining about it just making a point your Nepal traffic experience while interesting is cute in comparison.

Right. So traffic deaths in United States are much lower than even “cute” right? 
 

So let’s sum up. Covid is killing and injuring people at about the same rate as the war you served in. Comparing driving in Nepal to driving in Iraq is “cute”. 
 

So in conclusion you were just trying to be “cute” earlier when you compared Covid to auto fatalities?

[SeekingUnderstanding]

19 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

Yep by design it will never end. Not till every business smaller than apple, Amazon and Walmart are gone. 

Or until people get vaccinated and pick up a mask. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Or until people get vaccinated and pick up a mask. 

I appreciate your effort here, but I'm not sure your statement will mean much to one who has concluded that this is all a grand conspiracy ...

Edited August 16, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[pogi]

1 hour ago, secondclasscitizen said:

The Utah COVID problem is a creation of the Mormon population. All last year y’all up there ( I’m generalizing) we’re maskless while most of the rest of the country was wearing them as was I. 

mormons even made the news with all the RM welcome home bashes at the airport, byu students going maskless, community meetings maskless etc. 

we wore masks and shut down the majority of our economy over it last year and our hospitals were overwhelmed for a feW months anyway. 
 

it is unfortunate you guys have so little room in hospitals. I read something like 500 some odd intensive care beds statewide? Why is there so little hospital capacity in Utah even when the beds are empty? When this is over I’d move if your family has this much volume of health problems. 

https://universe.byu.edu/2020/08/27/large-gathering-and-mask-enforcement-not-going-well-at-byu/

https://apnews.com/article/14fc5e1316fb7c74daeb7043f367c19f

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1234017

 

Wait, did you just say that we brought this on ourselves for not wearing masks?

We have 529 ICU beds statewide.  We don’t have more because we have never, ever come close to needing them + we don’t have the staff to man them + plus we can’t afford to man empty beds, even if there wasn’t a nursing shortage.  That is why we don’t have more beds.  On top of that nurses and doctors are quitting due to exhaustion/stress overload.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/kslnewsradio.com/1953847/icu-capacity-hits-102-at-utah-intermountain-facilities/amp/

“This is not a place we want to be, 100% capacity is not where you want to run a hospital. That means that all the beds are full in the ICU which means when you get a trauma patient, when you get a heart attack patient, a stroke patient, that needs an ICU bed, you’ve got to find a bed.

“It is a position that is extremely taxing on our caregivers, both in the ICU and the med-surg side, because what ends up happening is that you end up taking care of sicker patients than you should be on a general medical care floor,” Stenehjem continued.
 

Now, Ned surge floors are nearing 100% capacity too (98%), if that happens, where are they going to place heart attack/stroke/car accident victims, etc.?

The situation is dire.  All because people are not getting vaccinated or masking.  So to pretend like this doesn’t effect all of us is a joke!

[pogi]

1 hour ago, secondclasscitizen said:

Who is acting as nothing is wrong? I think everyone realizes something wrong. What to do is the disagreement.

Who disagrees that vaccines and masks are not the best solution?

Show me one medical association, public health agency, infectious disease bureau, or even hospital, etc. who disagrees.  Find me one active ICU doc who thinks that we shouldn’t all be wearing masks and getting vaccinated.

When your prophet, first presidency, and several apostles have spoken out about vaccines and masks, and they are in harmony with medical and scientific consensus - to suggest that there is disagreement about what should be done is in insincere.  When both liberals and even Trump urged vaccines and masks... 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/07/21/president-trump-urges-americans-to-wear-masks-to-prevent-the-spread-of-the-coronavirus.html
 

...Seriously, who is left?  

 

[Calm]

31 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I appreciate your effort here, but 'm not sure your statement will mean much to one who has concluded that this is all a grand conspiracy ...

I don’t get how people can’t see the best way to support smaller businesses is to keep stuff open because staff and customers are healthy through vaccinations, masks, and social distancing now we have a vaccine. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, pogi said:

Show me one medical association, public health agency, infectious disease bureau, or even hospital, etc. who disagrees.  Find me one active ICU doc who thinks that we shouldn’t all be wearing masks and getting vaccinated.

This was in June, so likely up to 98% vaccinated by now. 
 

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/public-health/nearly-all-us-doctors-are-vaccinated-time-follow-their-lead

 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, secondclasscitizen said:

I can shoot back there lol. 
 

the death rate there was nominal for a war and don’t forget the 30k plus wounded. Still small potatoes for a war.

and before anyone accuses me of being callous about it about 48 of my troops were wounded over there along with me so I was no bean counter in the sidelines. We got into the thick of it and sent many to see their 72 virgins. 
 

casuslties are a reality of war and we need to keep their numbers in perspective just like this COVID fight.

Casualties start impacting the us military ability to wage war when they are in the 10% range.

 I wasn’t complaining about it just making a point your Nepal traffic experience while interesting is cute in comparison.

 It would be reckless to become casual and not take every preventative measure in war, right?  Even when casualty rates are relatively low?

Protective gear, defensive weapons, etc. taking orders from commanders who know what they are talking about...

Fortunately, compared to war, all we need is a vaccine for COVID and a simple face covering after listening to our medical leaders.  That would prevent almost all casualties.  Not to mention it would save small businesses and boost our overall economy, and give our healthcare system a needed break.  
 

 

Edited August 16, 2021 by pogi

[Hamba Tuhan]

28 minutes ago, Calm said:

I don’t get how people can’t see the best way to support smaller businesses is to keep stuff open because staff and customers are healthy through vaccinations, masks, and social distancing now we have a vaccine. 

To be blunt, that's because you don't think like these people. As a PhD student, I twice tutored an undergraduate course in conspiracy as a social/cultural phenomenon. It is simply not a rational place. Once one is there, every reasonable statement, every set of data, every appeal by religious leaders is part of the deception, either 'by design' or because everyone else is less brilliant than the person who sees what's really going on.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, secondclasscitizen said:

Yep by design it will never end. Not till every business smaller than apple, Amazon and Walmart are gone. 

Reading over accounts of the Black Death it seems the two prevailing views were that it was a punishment from God or a blessing from God. While I believe neither of those are accurate I find both preferable to modern conspiracy theorist who throws out even more nonsensical explanations that doesn’t even incorporate God to explain away the impossibilities.

If the “powers that be” have the power you suggest and are able to maintain a conspiracy of silence amongst at least hundreds of thousands spread across the entire world you would think their plans wouldn’t be this stupid and hamfisted.

[Bernard Gui]

8 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I find up-to-date information reduces fear.

If we have lab-based evidence that naturally acquired antibodies don't do much against Delta, then I want to know that so that I can use that information going forward.

But to each his own, certainly.

Yes, to each his own. Having been through the American COVID experience, finding reliable information has proven to be elusive at best. Frankly, brother, I do know who to trust, and that is not conducive to reducing fear. I do not fear COVID, however. I’ve had worse.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

6 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

Not to worry.  It was nothing personal.  I just did a quick search to see what city's or cities' population came closest to the [terribly unfortunate] 734,000 COVID-19 death toll.  Besides, we have to meet before you die!  I think you're a fascinating individual, and I'd pay real money to hear you fiddle for me!

Oh. I did not take that personally, KG. I was just thinking of the irony of having just fled the ever-deteriorating Seattle area for the hills of Kentucky. 🙂 While I would never wish such destruction on anyone (I grew up in Los Alamos, NM, just after WW2), it does give me occasion to say “Hmmmmmm.” Sodom and Gomorrah 2021? 🤪 

I would be honored to fiddle a tune or two…..no charge!

[Bernard Gui]

7 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Or until people get vaccinated and pick up a mask. 

Respiratory viruses never disappear, right? Every year we get the flu shot that is built to anticipate whatever flavor or variant  is expected to pop up during flu season, but still thousands die of the flu each year. Viruses are going to do what viruses do.  Don’t you think COVID is now permanently in the mix?

Edited August 16, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[secondclasscitizen]

5 hours ago, pogi said:

Who disagrees that vaccines and masks are not the best solution?

Show me one medical association, public health agency, infectious disease bureau, or even hospital, etc. who disagrees.  Find me one active ICU doc who thinks that we shouldn’t all be wearing masks and getting vaccinated.

When your prophet, first presidency, and several apostles have spoken out about vaccines and masks, and they are in harmony with medical and scientific consensus - to suggest that there is disagreement about what should be done is in insincere.  When both liberals and even Trump urged vaccines and masks... 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/07/21/president-trump-urges-americans-to-wear-masks-to-prevent-the-spread-of-the-coronavirus.html
 

...Seriously, who is left?  

 

I guess i am the only one left in the world who thinks the masks are ineffective. Yep me right here.

[secondclasscitizen]

9 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Respiratory viruses never disappear, right? Every year we get the flu shot that is built to anticipate whatever flavor or variant  is expected to pop up during flu season, but still thousands die of the flu each year. Viruses are go into to do what viruses do.  Don’t you think COVID is now permanently in the mix?

No way… just wear a mask it will all go away.

[secondclasscitizen]

5 hours ago, pogi said:

Protective gear, defensive weapons, etc. taking orders from commanders who know what they are talking about..
 

 

You obviously have not been in the military. Most of them just parrot the directive from above .. you know those who are safely ensconced behind concrete walls and who have never personally led a platoon (most important maneuver formation and most complicated to lead) in combat. Many don’t have the experience doing it yet by virtue of rank and title are automatically assumed to be an expert.

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, secondclasscitizen said:

No way… just wear a mask it will all go away.

This is lying to suggest this is anyone’s position on this board.  If you are just throwing it out there….why?  What purpose?  
 

And if you think you have anything substantive to say, why not say that instead of wasting empty blows at an empty strawman. 
 

Elsewhere there may be some who are so uninformed they think that.  Not here.  Please don’t waste our time or attention with such nothingness.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Calm

[Metis_LDS]

I will try to add something. If someone says to me I was wearing a mask and caught Covid anyway I would say 2 things.  The doctor who first detected Covid in china said you can also get infected by exposure of the eyes.  Second the news in the UK now says fully vaccinated persons can spread Delta Covid.  So this may go a long way in explaining the power of Delta.                                                                   

So to be really clear some fully vaccinated people are getting Covid in the UK and they become spreaders.  If you do not live alone you may get covid from those you live with even if they are fully vaccinated.  I am not an anti vax person.  My whole family is vaccinated,  but now it seems there are always odds at play.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Metis_LDS
clarity

[pogi]

1 hour ago, secondclasscitizen said:

No way… just wear a mask it will all go away.

Straw man