The Church Is Awash in Revelation!

[teddyaware]

Some participants on this board recently mocked me when I testified that today’s Church is “awash in revelation.” This skeptical point of view is understandable when it comes from nonmembers, some of whom participate here, but I’m honestly perplexed and concerned when I find a similarly doubtful and contrarian point of view persisting among some of the active members of the Church who participated on this forum.

As one who knows for certain that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints presently truly is awash in revelation and powerfully inspired divine counsel from God’s living prophets, I offer the following simply prepared but deeply impactful video produced by one Ryan W Allen. After prayerfully focusing on brother Allen’s timely message and giving it the serious consideration it deserves, if you are still able to say the Church isn’t presently awash in essential modern revelation and that we are now living in the last period of the last days, all I can say is you and I are living parallel universes of perception. If you desire, you can skip the first 12 minutes of the video and still get the full gist of the presentation, which will reduce your viewing time down to 27minutes. 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by teddyaware

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

Some participants on this board recently mocked me when I testified that today’s Church is “awash in revelation.”

I was perplexed by this, myself. Perhaps they're not getting any themselves, and so assume that Church leaders aren't getting any either. If that is the case, maybe they should try seeking revelation for themselves. Like, diligently asking God if the Church is really getting revelation. A couple of posters just cannot deal with the fact that the Church isn't publishing periodic additions to the D&C.  Why should there be additions, though?

The thing about the Doctrine and Covenants is this: it has doctrine, and it talks about covenants. Do we need more doctrine, or are we having a hard enough time keeping faith with the doctrine we have already? As for covenants, I think we have enough covenants to live up to already.

 

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

Perhaps they're not getting any themselves, and so assume that Church leaders aren't getting any either.

This is the exact conclusion I reached some years ago and have maintained since as a consequence of ever-increasing evidence.

Edited February 18, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Ahab]

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I was perplexed by this, myself. Perhaps they're not getting any themselves, and so assume that Church leaders aren't getting any either. If that is the case, maybe they should try seeking revelation for themselves. Like, diligently asking God if the Church is really getting revelation. A couple of posters just cannot deal with the fact that the Church isn't publishing periodic additions to the D&C.  Why should there be additions, though?

The thing about the Doctrine and Covenants is this: it has doctrine, and it talks about covenants. Do we need more doctrine, or are we having a hard enough time keeping faith with the doctrine we have already? As for covenants, I think we have enough covenants to live up to already.

Sometimes it is this, maybe, but I think only rarely is that the case.  I think many just don't fully understand what it is like to receive revelation from God, thinking it is something they will not mistake as anything but. Not that trumpets should sound or some booming voice will talk to them in their heads, but surely there would be some kind of announcement from God or an angel or some glorious personage that,  Ta Da!  Today you are going to get some revelation, so watch for it, and then another Ta Da! will sound in their heads to say, with a flash of light, suddenly, miraculously, this is it:  (followed by whatever God has to tell them)

I still remember the moment I realized that revelation from God doesn't always come with a lot of fanfare. That it can sometimes even be overlooked or mistaken as something else, other than what it actually is.  That sometimes it is just a simple matter of getting a good idea.  Even if that good idea may not seem like a good idea, at first.  Or even if the person getting the good idea doesn't ever realize that was a good idea.  And then on they go, ho hum, wondering if they will ever get any revelation from God and WHY God never tries to talk with them.

[Stargazer]

3 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Some participants on this board recently mocked me when I testified that today’s Church is “awash in revelation.” This skeptical point of view is understandable when it comes from nonmembers, some of whom participate here, but I’m honestly perplexed and concerned when I find a similarly doubtful and contrarian point of view persisting among some of the active members of the Church who participated on this forum.

I wonder if these members have read the Book of Mormon recently or, at all?  The issue is nicely covered in 1 Nephi 15:6-11

6 And it came to pass that after I had received strength I spake unto my brethren, desiring to know of them the cause of their disputations.
7 And they said: Behold, we cannot understand the words which our father hath spoken concerning the natural branches of the olive tree, and also concerning the Gentiles.
8 And I said unto them: Have ye inquired of the Lord?
9 And they said unto me: We have not; for the Lord maketh no such thing known unto us.
10 Behold, I said unto them: How is it that ye do not keep the commandments of the Lord? How is it that ye will perish, because of the hardness of your hearts?
11 Do ye not remember the things which the Lord hath said? — If ye will not harden your hearts, and ask me in faith, believing that ye shall receive, with diligence in keeping my commandments, surely these things shall be made known unto you.

These folks who believe there is no revelation in the Church are humbly invited to check in with the Lord on the subject. If they are righteous, and are keeping the commandments, and if they ask in faith, believing that they will receive, I have no doubt that the Spirit will confirm to them that the Church is being led by revelation. 

I think that, by making demands that new sections be added to the Doctrine and Covenants, they are challenging God to prove Himself, or in other words, asking for a sign. This is never a good idea.

[Stargazer]

24 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I still remember the moment I realized that revelation from God doesn't always come with a lot of fanfare.

So do I. It was just a few months after I joined the Church. The still, small voice can be quite "audible" is you're being quiet and listening for it.

[Ahab]

14 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

So do I. It was just a few months after I joined the Church. The still, small voice can be quite "audible" is you're being quiet and listening for it.

True, but too many people think they must be able to hear an audible voice before they can honestly claim to be receiving revelation from God, so I try to make a point out of saying that is not necessary.

[Stargazer]

Harold B. Lee once wrote an article, or gave a talk entitled "Revelation and You." I first read it in a collection of his writings called "Stand Ye in Holy Places" (1974). This item also appeared in the February 1980 issue of The Ensign, although slightly edited. I think it's worth referring to here, and note that the article/talk itself starts with the 2nd paragraph:

Revelation and You

I'll quote something relevant from it:

Quote

Elder John A. Widtsoe of the Council of the Twelve once told of a discussion he had with a group of stake officers. In the course of the discussion someone said to him, “Brother Widtsoe, how long has it been since the Church received a revelation?” Brother Widtsoe rubbed his chin thoughtfully and said in reply, “Oh, probably since last Thursday.” Brother Widtsoe undoubtedly referred to the meeting of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve that is held on each Thursday.

Through the scriptures this phrase is often repeated: “He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.” (Matt. 11:15.) All of us are not so blessed to hear all that we ought to hear.

 

 

[Stargazer]

6 minutes ago, Ahab said:

True, but too many people think they must be able to hear an audible voice before they can honestly claim to be receiving revelation from God, so I try to make a point out of saying that is not necessary.

This is correct. I've never heard a voice from heaven. What I have "heard" was a voice that I "heard" in my mind.

On the other hand, I did hear an audible voice twice, but not a voice from heaven. It consisted of words being spoken by myself as they were given to me. 

[Ahab]

4 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

This is correct. I've never heard a voice from heaven. What I have "heard" was a voice that I "heard" in my mind.

On the other hand, I did hear an audible voice twice, but not a voice from heaven. It consisted of words being spoken by myself as they were given to me. 

Okay, but this is not a contest to see who has had the best form of revelation from God, with an audible voice from God himself being the very best form of revelation and every other form of revelation from God as inferior to that form.

The whole point of receiving revelation from God is so that something can be revealed to us, to make us aware of it so that we can use whatever information was in the revelation God gave to us.  Just to receive his ideas as he reveals them.

He is our Father and he wants to help us, so he tries to share ideas with us to help us in our lives.  It's as simple as that.  So we just need to be on the lookout for any and all of the good ideas we can get, which will come from the best kind of good guy there is.

[Stargazer]

44 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Okay, but this is not a contest to see who has had the best form of revelation from God, with an audible voice from God himself being the very best form of revelation and every other form of revelation from God as inferior to that form.

I'm puzzled that you would think that's what I was saying. It was not. Every form of revelation is best.

ETA: When I read the topic title of this thread I wanted to bear testimony that President Nelson is a true prophet, seer, and revelator. And I know this by personal revelation. 

So there I am. 

Edited February 19, 2021 by Stargazer

[Hamba Tuhan]

4 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Every form of revelation is best.

Indeed.

And I learnt as a full-time missionary that it is unwise to tell people how God might communicate with them. He has a large toolkit and will use the approach that is best for that person at that time. People who've been told that God only speaks in a still, small voice can end up rather surprised.

[Robert F. Smith]

16 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Some participants on this board recently mocked me when I testified that today’s Church is “awash in revelation.” This skeptical point of view is understandable when it comes from nonmembers, some of whom participate here, but I’m honestly perplexed and concerned when I find a similarly doubtful and contrarian point of view persisting among some of the active members of the Church who participated on this forum.

As one who knows for certain that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints presently truly is awash in revelation and powerfully inspired divine counsel from God’s living prophets, I offer the following simply prepared but deeply impactful video produced by one Ryan W Allen. After prayerfully focusing on brother Allen’s timely message and giving it the serious consideration it deserves, if you are still able to say the Church isn’t presently awash in essential modern revelation and that we are now living in the last period of the last days, all I can say is you and I are living parallel universes of perception. If you desire, you can skip the first 12 minutes of the video and still get the full gist of the presentation, which will reduce your viewing time down to 27minutes. ...................

 

14 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I was perplexed by this, myself. Perhaps they're not getting any themselves, and so assume that Church leaders aren't getting any either. If that is the case, maybe they should try seeking revelation for themselves. Like, diligently asking God if the Church is really getting revelation. A couple of posters just cannot deal with the fact that the Church isn't publishing periodic additions to the D&C.  Why should there be additions, though?

The thing about the Doctrine and Covenants is this: it has doctrine, and it talks about covenants. Do we need more doctrine, or are we having a hard enough time keeping faith with the doctrine we have already? As for covenants, I think we have enough covenants to live up to already.

It could be a terminological thing in which inspiration isn't important enough to be considered revelation.

Or maybe some people expect "big time" revelations to be added to the D&C every year or so, or perhaps more often, the way it was back in Joseph's time.  They want a D&C bursting at its seams.

If not, perhaps the Church has lost its way.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Robert F. Smith

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Or maybe some people expect "big time" revelations to be added to the D&C every year or so, or perhaps more often, the way it was back in Joseph's time.  They want a D&C bursting at its seams.

I can see it now:

D&C 305:1 "And now behold, I declare unto you that I am still here and guiding my Church. Stop asking for new doctrine, since you have a hard enough time keeping the covenants you already possess. Amen."

[Ahab]

17 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I'm puzzled that you would think that's what I was saying. It was not. Every form of revelation is best.

ETA: When I read the topic title of this thread I wanted to bear testimony that President Nelson is a true prophet, seer, and revelator. And I know this by personal revelation. 

So there I am. 

I didn't think you were saying that.  I just felt the urge to say what I said because I felt it was important to raise that point.  There are people reading what we say, ya know, including a lot of people who don't believe or realize they are getting revelation from God because they think they must hear some kind of voice in their head before they would call getting a good idea a revelation from God.

[Stargazer]

2 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I didn't think you were saying that.  I just felt the urge to say what I said because I felt it was important to raise that point.  There are people reading what we say, ya know, including a lot of people who don't believe or realize they are getting revelation from God because they think they must hear some kind of voice in their head before they would call getting a good idea a revelation from God.

Understood. 👍

[Robert F. Smith]

6 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I can see it now:

D&C 305:1 "And now behold, I declare unto you that I am still here and guiding my Church. Stop asking for new doctrine, since you have a hard enough time keeping the covenants you already possess. Amen."

The Community of Christ D&C was up to #165 in 2013.  I don't know what they have now, but they at least keep adding to it regularly.  See https://www.cofchrist.org/doctrine-and-covenants-section-165

[Calm]

6 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The Community of Christ D&C was up to #165 in 2013.  I don't know what they have now, but they at least keep adding to it regularly.  See https://www.cofchrist.org/doctrine-and-covenants-section-165

Since nothing comes up for #166 and lots for #165, think it is relatively safe to say #165 was the last addition. 

[JustAnAustralian]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

Since nothing comes up for #166 and lots for #165, think it is relatively safe to say #165 was the last addition. 

Yep, 165 is the last. Wikipedia has a nice dated comparison https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctrine_and_Covenants#Chart_comparison_of_editions

[rpn]

On 2/18/2021 at 6:44 PM, Stargazer said:

These folks who believe there is no revelation in the Church are humbly invited to check in with the Lord on the subject. If they are righteous, and are keeping the commandments, and if they ask in faith, believing that they will receive, I have no doubt that the Spirit will confirm to them that the Church is being led by revelation. 

There is one caveat:   many people today are anxious or depresssed, afraid, frozen.   Lots aren't sleeping enough or well.   They aren't eating nutritiously and exercising.  And they are suffering losses and going through trials.    

Any of those things can interfere for a time with being able to hear and feel the Holy Ghost bearing witness of our Heavenly Parents and Savior's love for each of us, let alone feeling Them.  Sometimes exercise and eating better and getting sufficient restful sleep can help, but none are a quick fix generally.   Sometimes we have to get through the mists of darkness by holding onto the righteous habits we'ved developed throughout our lifetimes to date until we get through the mists of darkness. 

And it is helpful to have a firm testimony that They live and know us intimately, by name, in every moment, love us, BEFORE we get to the mists of darkness.

[Meadowchik]

On 2/18/2021 at 10:47 PM, Hamba Tuhan said:

This is the exact conclusion I reached some years ago and have maintained since as a consequence of ever-increasing evidence.

Huh. Folks I know who are dissatisfied with the slowness of the church have lives awash in spiritual revelation.

So that's not it.

[JLHPROF]

7 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

Huh. Folks I know who are dissatisfied with the slowness of the church have lives awash in spiritual revelation.

So that's not it.

Well that's just it.  What is described as revelation in the Church today is no longer unique to the Church.  There is literally no difference in LDS claims of revelation comparative to any other Christian sect.

[The Nehor]

On 2/19/2021 at 1:58 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

The Community of Christ D&C was up to #165 in 2013.  I don't know what they have now, but they at least keep adding to it regularly.  See https://www.cofchrist.org/doctrine-and-covenants-section-165

Nice sentiment but so saccharine. Where is the implacable voice of God?

Edited February 21, 2021 by The Nehor

[Robert F. Smith]

1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

Nice sentiment but so saccharine. Where is the stern voice of God?

According to the late Garner Ted Armstrong, Jesus was a businessman.  The CoC is very businesslike.  No place for stern hectoring.

[The Nehor]

25 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

According to the late Garner Ted Armstrong, Jesus was a businessman.  The CoC is very businesslike.  No place for stern hectoring.

Sounds like prosperity gospel drivel.