Christmas, Consumerism, and Traditions

[poptart]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

Ugh. How can Catholics "commemorate" the reformation? That would be like (if I understand it maybe) the LDS church commemorating the Community of Christ or FLDS break-offs. The reformation was a repudiation of the Catholic Church, just like Community of Christ and FLDS is of the LDS church.

Poptart, take something you hold dear and true. Now, imagine someone telling you you are wrong and then they completely repudiate it. Are you going to join in celebration of the fact that they said so?

Here's my take on it, make friends but that's about it.  This did happen, assuming it still stands.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-religion-pope-germany/pope-blocks-german-plan-for-protestants-to-receive-catholic-communion-idUSKCN1J02A8

Let me clarify that, get along but keep your rules in place.  Take gay marriage, places like Germany have it and no one really cares.  Want to get married in a church?  Nope not happening.  I'm all for us getting along but that's it.  If Pope francis wen't too far, ok. 

Thing with me is I look at the reformation as something more secular.  Politics were ugly back then, look at the war that happened after.  Also, to be fair Martin Luther really didn't have the intention of creating another branch of the Christian religion, can thank a bunch of opportunistic princes for that.  My understanding with things like this is they celebrate historical events like this then go about their business, affirming their own rules and that's that.  Had no idea it was that big of a deal, my mistake.

1 hour ago, 3DOP said:

Poptart. Hi.

Legit-imate is not synonymous with valid. You would seem to be validly baptized and confirmed, just as any Eastern Orthodox who receives valid Sacraments. Was it your intention to become a Roman Catholic when you were baptized, or were you like a Lutheran who probably receives a valid baptism with no intention at all of submitting to everything that the Roman Catholic Church believes and teaches? 

I am sure I am much more sympathetic to sedevacantist ideas than miserere or most of my fellows who attend SSPX chapels. I do not in any way speak for the Society of St. Pius X. I think they would certainly agree with Jesse that you should stay away from CMRI if you can. I doubt that they would agree with me when I say that if your intention in receiving Sacraments from a CMRI priest or bishop was to conform to the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church, you would be a "legit Catholic", if I understand what that means.

The following is more for you Jesse than anybody:

I am fine with you believing that Francis is pope no matter what, and the same goes for most of my friends who think the same way. But I have to say that I am an agnostic. It is because I do not think the Catholic Church has definitively spoken yet on this question. I pretty much discount my ability to successfully wrestle with the question. It is not my calling.  

My position of agnosticism is based on the mercy of God and the diabolical disorientation, alluded to by Sr. Lucia of Fatima, which haunts the Catholic Church in our age. It is based on Abp. Marcel Lefebvre confiding to a colleague that a future council might declare that John Paul II was never a true pope. It is based on St. Vincent Ferrer mistakenly uniting himself to an anti-pope while retaining an heroic degree of sanctity. It is based on the plausibility of arguments that the election of Pope Francis failed to adhere to canonical norms; that there was illicit collusion which could render Francis' election null and void. Today more than ever, I believe souls striving to be Catholic, do not necessarily fall out of grace because they make a mistake about what the Catholic Church teaches about who has been, or is, or is not a true pope in our times. I do not know. I do not know how to know the truth about the papacy in our times. I would rather be uncertain about what is true, than to express certainty about what could be revealed eventually to be false. I refuse at this time to commit myself to knowing how this will be all sorted out in the end.   

(I thought I needed to explain why I think it is possible that poptart is "legit Catholic", even while affiliated with sedevacantists.)

To the LDS:

Maybe you have missed it, but I have explained before how this "disorientation" of the Church has been prophesied. Now it comes. It is in my times. Of course I do not "like it" that I cannot with certainty identify the pope today. (It helps to have not quite 2,000 years of identifiable vicars of Christ who remain as important today as ever). Still, one has to resist discouragement. The reading this week on Ember Saturday from the Prophet Isaias was from ch. 35. "Take courage," it said, in light of all the unshakable assurances that Christ has come once as a little boy to be our Saviour, who came again in to our hearts, and will come again to judge the living and the dead. It can not mean a decrease of faith to see dark prophecies, even of ecclesiastical disaster come true. It should give the faithful Catholic confidence about the rest of the prophecy. We mustn't doubt the triumphant joy of God's remnant who cling tightly and doggedly to the faith in the darkest of hours. They will rejoice exceedingly to see the day when all the wiles of the Evil One will be foiled and satan is struck down by the God-Man through the Immaculate Heart of His Blessed Mother in the full light of day. To think of it makes the heart glow.     

Y'all take care.

3DOP

I'll clear this up a bit, I keep some Lutheran ties because it was the scant Christianity I was exposed to as a child, bad family messed that up.  As far as CMRI goes?  Lol no I really didn't start reading up on things like the book of concord until after.  Really, I was in a bad spot, had just fled a horrible domestic violence situation that ended with me taking a restraining order out on a family member and the bad times that followed after.  Was trying to get help for the mental drama that mess caused, was almost on the street and was looking around and kinda stumbled upon them.  Was curious what they were about, my father who was racist, violent and anti anything that didn't agree with him made me curious so I checked them out.  Reason why I said I may have backed out now?  Felt kinda bad.  I assumed me showing up to sunday school and learning some doctorine would have been just education.  Some of the people were great, some weren't but it was a good experience for me esp. since it was the first time I was exposed to something like that.  Part of the reason the Catholic Church gets brownie points from me is my grandmom on moms side was Catholic and the church did a ton of good for Hawaii, them and the LDS church.  Not my fault the other half had to in essence screw me out of everything.  Even my half brothers got to be acolytes, their father made sure of it.  Looking back now, they were probably some of the most stable people I had ever met who weren't about materialism.  Also, I didn't find out about the CMRI drama until later on.  One big thing I didn't like about them was how a lot of the parishoners had a less then charitable attitude towards the poor.  Other parishes in the area did a ton more, especially for the local tribes. 

This is why I was trying to push the get along point, I had no idea it would offend that much.  That's coming from someone who had to grow up around a ton of violence and like a lot of the time had to get the court involved because there were drugs and opiates involved (in his case...)  There are a ton of people like me who go through pure hell and really, no one cares.  That's a big reason why society is in the mess we're in, a lot of us despise each other and from the looks of things it's not changing anytime soon.  Occasionally people like me wander in and try to make the most of it.  Friends of mine who went to Catholic School often times never bother with church later on due to things out of their control.  Good friend of mine's parents divorced and yep, his friends from his parish turned their backs on him.  Would be nice if the religious powers that be could get along so those of us who weren't so privileged could have a taste of the stability traditional religion can bring. 

[3DOP]

21 hours ago, poptart said:

Here's my take on it, make friends but that's about it.  This did happen, assuming it still stands.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-religion-pope-germany/pope-blocks-german-plan-for-protestants-to-receive-catholic-communion-idUSKCN1J02A8

Let me clarify that, get along but keep your rules in place.  Take gay marriage, places like Germany have it and no one really cares.  Want to get married in a church?  Nope not happening.  I'm all for us getting along but that's it.  If Pope francis wen't too far, ok. 

Thing with me is I look at the reformation as something more secular.  Politics were ugly back then, look at the war that happened after.  Also, to be fair Martin Luther really didn't have the intention of creating another branch of the Christian religion, can thank a bunch of opportunistic princes for that.  My understanding with things like this is they celebrate historical events like this then go about their business, affirming their own rules and that's that.  Had no idea it was that big of a deal, my mistake.

I'll clear this up a bit, I keep some Lutheran ties because it was the scant Christianity I was exposed to as a child, bad family messed that up.  As far as CMRI goes?  Lol no I really didn't start reading up on things like the book of concord until after.  Really, I was in a bad spot, had just fled a horrible domestic violence situation that ended with me taking a restraining order out on a family member and the bad times that followed after.  Was trying to get help for the mental drama that mess caused, was almost on the street and was looking around and kinda stumbled upon them.  Was curious what they were about, my father who was racist, violent and anti anything that didn't agree with him made me curious so I checked them out.  Reason why I said I may have backed out now?  Felt kinda bad.  I assumed me showing up to sunday school and learning some doctorine would have been just education.  Some of the people were great, some weren't but it was a good experience for me esp. since it was the first time I was exposed to something like that.  Part of the reason the Catholic Church gets brownie points from me is my grandmom on moms side was Catholic and the church did a ton of good for Hawaii, them and the LDS church.  Not my fault the other half had to in essence screw me out of everything.  Even my half brothers got to be acolytes, their father made sure of it.  Looking back now, they were probably some of the most stable people I had ever met who weren't about materialism.  Also, I didn't find out about the CMRI drama until later on.  One big thing I didn't like about them was how a lot of the parishoners had a less then charitable attitude towards the poor.  Other parishes in the area did a ton more, especially for the local tribes. 

This is why I was trying to push the get along point, I had no idea it would offend that much.  That's coming from someone who had to grow up around a ton of violence and like a lot of the time had to get the court involved because there were drugs and opiates involved (in his case...)  There are a ton of people like me who go through pure hell and really, no one cares.  That's a big reason why society is in the mess we're in, a lot of us despise each other and from the looks of things it's not changing anytime soon.  Occasionally people like me wander in and try to make the most of it.  Friends of mine who went to Catholic School often times never bother with church later on due to things out of their control.  Good friend of mine's parents divorced and yep, his friends from his parish turned their backs on him.  Would be nice if the religious powers that be could get along so those of us who weren't so privileged could have a taste of the stability traditional religion can bring. 

Hi again poptart.

Don't be silly, neither miserere nobis nor I are "offended" at your suggestion. Not only did it not offend "that much". It did not offend at all. Attempts to celebrate unity when there is none even now, centuries after a split which resulted in loss of priestly faculties, are pie-in-the-sky efforts at ignoring the historical reasons we are apart.

Henry VIII lacked a male heir to the throne. His lawful wife seemed unable to provide one. Rather than compromise Catholic teaching on Holy Matrimony to political expedience, the pope refused Henry an annulment, John Fisher and Thomas More had their heads cut off, monasteries and churches were plundered, and Catholic England was lost forever. Maybe it was about secular politics on the English Reformation side, but the Catholic Church had no political interest in alienating King Henry VIII. She did so because it was the right thing to do according to the teachings of the Catholic faith.

Perhaps this will help you to understand why I would "like" Jesse's "ugh" comment when seeing pictures of the Anglicans and Catholics pretending to have church together. If that does not seem reasonable to you, it is perhaps because you don't have an opinion, one way or the other about the annulment, and the subsequent loss of priestly orders. I hold that if Catholics love Anglicans, they do not act as though the "Archbishop" of Canterbury is even a priest let alone a bishop. Love invites the lost sheep to come home to Rome. Love does not confirm lost sheep in their folly. These kinds of celebration serve to confirm the Protestant in their error, while being an occasion of scandal to Catholics who think that the modern Catholic Church is admitting that the Catholic Church was wrong. This is why I "liked" Jesse's "ugh".

God bless you on your journey of faith,

Rory

Edited December 24, 2020 by 3DOP

[Bernard Gui]

I love the simplicity of our sacrament services on Christmas and Easter. Observing the occasion with prayers, hymns, music, scripture, spoken word, all presented by dear friends and relatives, children, youth, and adults in the ward, and partaking of the sacrament seems the epitome of a Christian celebration.

To me, Christmas Eve and Christmas Day are reserved for the family. I love the family traditions that are built around the Christmas season. We are free to observe it however we wish.

On Christmas Eve our extended family gathers for a light dinner, making music with instruments and songs, a live Nativity with the reading of the birth story from Luke, sometimes with a real baby in the manger, and the opening of one cousin gift each. We have had as many as 15 people playing instruments together. Santa comes and gives a gift to each child and teenager (grampas, uncles, and friends have worn the Santa suit over the years).

Christmas morning was celebrated in our home with the kids (sometimes multiple families spending the night) coming down the stairs to the living room where the presents are scattered around the tree. The stockings are passed out from the mantel and opened. Then everyone opens one gift at a time so all can share the joy. Then breakfast, socializing, and playing with toys, etc. Later in the day, we have a Christmas dinner often featuring traditional food from Poland or New Mexico, my home.  

For years our family has devoted a night sometime before Christmas to a festival of music in our home where we and all the guests perform instrumental and vocal Christmas music and poetry for each other, culminating in an hour of singing carols and sharing holiday treats. One year we even had bagpipes and a concert harp in our living room! We have shared the beauty of the Oxford Book of Carols and traditional Polish Christmas music.

For many years wards and stakes in our region have sponsored performances of The Messiah, holiday parties and dinners, community Christmas concerts with school and non-LDS church choirs, massive Nativity displays, and service like Giving Trees and Christmas food baskets.

I often attend Midnight Mass at a nearby Polish Catholic Church in remembrance  of my grandfather Piotr who was sexton, organist, choir director, and kindergarten teacher at Our Lady of Mt Carmel Catholic Church in Bayonne NJ. I enjoy the Polish mass, but I also love the way we celebrate Christmas. 

Because of  Covid, this is the first year since I was in the fourth grade that I have not organized, performed in, or conducted school, church, and professional Christmas orchestral and choir celebrations. That would be 64 years for those doing the math. This is the first time in decades that I have not played in a Christmas Messiah concert. In the past, Christmas has been my insane season with dozens of rehearsals, concerts, performing trips, and school programs starting in November. It really feels really weird. 

We can make of Christmas whatever we want. I don’t feel we neglect it or miss anything because we don’t have big communal events on Christmas Eve and Day 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[poptart]

14 hours ago, 3DOP said:

Hi again poptart.

Don't be silly, neither miserere nobis nor I are "offended" at your suggestion. Not only did it not offend "that much". It did not offend at all. Attempts to celebrate unity when there is none even now, centuries after a split which resulted in loss of priestly faculties, are pie-in-the-sky efforts at ignoring the historical reasons we are apart.

Henry VIII lacked a male heir to the throne. His lawful wife seemed unable to provide one. Rather than compromise Catholic teaching on Holy Matrimony to political expedience, the pope refused Henry an annulment, John Fisher and Thomas More had their heads cut off, monasteries and churches were plundered, and Catholic England was lost forever. Maybe it was about secular politics on the English Reformation side, but the Catholic Church had no political interest in alienating King Henry VIII. She did so because it was the right thing to do according to the teachings of the Catholic faith.

Perhaps this will help you to understand why I would "like" Jesse's "ugh" comment when seeing pictures of the Anglicans and Catholics pretending to have church together. If that does not seem reasonable to you, it is perhaps because you don't have an opinion, one way or the other about the annulment, and the subsequent loss of priestly orders. I hold that if Catholics love Anglicans, they do not act as though the "Archbishop" of Canterbury is even a priest let alone a bishop. Love invites the lost sheep to come home to Rome. Love does not confirm lost sheep in their folly. These kinds of celebration serve to confirm the Protestant in their error, while being an occasion of scandal to Catholics who think that the modern Catholic Church is admitting that the Catholic Church was wrong. This is why I "liked" Jesse's "ugh".

God bless you on your journey of faith,

Rory

Ops my bad.  I've known some pretty mean Catholics IRL sadly.  I've had the life i've had, an IRL habit i've perfected is ghosting people if I get the feeling they have it in for me.  With how things have been and some of the people i've known, it doesn't pay to let bad people have access to you.  I've known some really bad people, sadly.  Also, I look at religion through a much more secular lens than I think most of you here do.  When you don't have the privilege a middle class suburban life most of you had affords you see things differently.  I do think among millenials that's kind of the norm now hence why I replied the way I did about religion.  Most of us never had it so that's just how we are, is what it is.  Religion here really doesn't do what it used to do nor provide the security and/or standards it once did.  I don't blame the church, I blame the people in it. 

No offense intended here but one of the things I love Luther for most, he helped create Prussia.

 

 

[Rain]

On 12/20/2020 at 10:54 PM, Hamba Tuhan said:

Like many, this has been a goal of mine for many years. I finally just made the decision to be a complete freak and do it as best I can. I think it helps that I'm a migrant, so people already expect me to be weird and not follow cultural conventions.

So I've completely dispensed with gift-giving at Chrismastime. I love giving people gifts, but now I do it whenever the opportunity arises. If I see something small in April or August that I know someone will cherish, I buy it and give it to them. If people give me Christmas gifts -- and I find that happens less frequently every year -- I sincerely thank them and feel zero social obligation to return the favour.

Instead of trying to cram a year's worth of celebrating into one month, I now have people in my home throughout the year to eat good food that I've cooked, play cards, etc.

Finding the right gift can be so stressful for me.  We have mostly come to the point you are little by little.  First we stopped giving gifts to extended family.  My husband is the youngest and we realized that we had what was needed and gifts were just more of a burden to us as they became clutter.  So we let them know we were not going to be giving gifts and would feel fine with what everyone chose to do.  Now occasionally we will get a gift from them, but overall there are no gifts between us. 

Then my husband I basically came to the same conclusion between us.  

So the only gifts (including birthday) we give are to the kids and stockings for anyone who is living at home, but we have never been big givers with them either.  

And now I just pick up gifts here and there for people and just send them like you do.  How I really feel about gifts is the way I give them - they mean more when done this way because the person is thinking of me and not the "have to" of the occasion.

 

[Rain]

On 12/22/2020 at 11:23 AM, california boy said:

How you celebrate Christmas is TOTALLY up to each individual.  You choose whether to make it all about shopping and presents or focusing on other things.  In my family, we decided to not give presents to each other.  We only buy presents for the grand children.  My kids used to draw names, but I think they have even given up that idea.  We center Christmas around getting together and enjoying the season.  This year, because of covid, just about all community activities have been canceled.  The ones left didn't seem all that safe.  So I put together a bunch of Christmas ornament making activities for the grandkids.  We all gathered outside at my daughters place (yeah, California allows that to happen even in December.). We spread out, shared a meal together.  We all wore masks the whole time.  The grandkids opened their presents from grandpa and then we had the kids make Christmas ornaments.  It was a fun family centered, socially distanced get together.  Yeah it is possible to do things like this safely.  

In past times, our family has also tried making a rule to make all Christmas gifts.  It was fun for a couple of years, but took a lot of time.  Still not a bad idea.  Some years we have only bought family presents.  That has been fun.  Giving chocolate fondue sets, tie dye kits with white tee shirts for each family member, family games, etc. 

I choose to hand craft unique Christmas cards each year to send out.  They have been anything from hand made ceramic ornaments to miniature ginger bread houses.  One year we learned how to make chocolate truffles and sent those out.  This year because I am a glass artist,  I made glass Christmas trees to send out to family and friends.  It is just how I choose to spend my time celebrating Christmas.  

Really, the point of my post is to say that what other people do does not have to affect how you and your family share Christmas.  And as circumstances change, so can how you celebrate.  I honestly don't even notice the commercialization of Christmas any more.  I hope this gives someone some ideas on how to make Christmas the holiday you want it to be.

 

On 12/22/2020 at 11:34 AM, Calm said:

This is top of my list to learn if my health improves...that and throwing pots. 

Ok, you get your health improved, we get past covid and then we both travel to california boy's so he can teach us, if willing! 😀

[Rain]

Ok, my thoughts and feelings...

I have long thought on this kind of thing.

When we were about to have kids we wondered about Santa.  There is this fun "magic" about Santa for kids, but I didn't want as much commercialism in it all as I had seen.  After thinking about we chose no presents from Santa except for stockings.

Also, I had come across people who didn't believe in church or God in part because they had been "lied to" about Santa.  (I know there is more to this, but that can be for another thread).  So we never told the kids that Santa was real or that he brought the stockings.  That way as they learned about Santa from others they still had that magic for a time, but the focus was not on him.

Instead on Christmas Eve we shared that Santa was a symbol of Christ.  How loving children points to God loving us and the gifts He and Christ give us.

Saw this video the other day and it is perfect to how I feel about Christmas (it is short and you want your sound on):  https://fb.watch/2AAXkg0NFB/

 

Edited December 25, 2020 by Rain

[Ahab]

On 12/20/2020 at 10:10 AM, MiserereNobis said:

I know this is not a new idea, obviously, but I was hoping to have a conversation on how we can "steal" Christmas back from consumerism.

First, it helps to understand the intent and tactics used by those who promote consumerism.:  The intent is to persuade us to spend our money for the products they offer for sale, and they use advertising and "on sale" tactics to try to persuade us to spend.

Next, it helps to know there is something better to celebrate on Christmas than the things that can be bought with money.  So to put Christ before consumerism we need to appreciate Christ more than we appreciate consumerism.

Quote

What are ways that we can put Christ in the forefront of our Christmas traditions and celebrations? Should we make gift-giving, a noble practice, less dominant? How could we make gift-giving more Christian?

Thinking more about Christ than consumerism.

Thinking about what we can do to be more like Christ than thinking about what we can buy with money.

Serving God more than serving mammon.

Living as Christ lived as well as we can without focusing so much on the world and worldly desires.  Living in the world as Christ lived without being just another part of the world.

Edited December 24, 2020 by Ahab

[MiserereNobis]

11 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Later in the day, we have a Christmas dinner often featuring traditional food from Poland or New Mexico, my home.  

I'm having posole and tamales. We've got our luminaries out (you northerners like to call them farolitos)  

[Ahab]

11 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I love the simplicity of our sacrament services on Christmas and Easter. Observing the occasion with prayers, hymns, music, scripture, spoken word, all presented by dear friends and relatives, children, youth, and adults in the ward, and partaking of the sacrament seems the epitome of a Christian celebration.

To me, Christmas Eve and Christmas Day are reserved for the family. I love the family traditions that are built around the Christmas season. We are free to observe it however we wish.

On Christmas Eve our extended family gathers for a light dinner, making music with instruments and songs, a live Nativity with the reading of the birth story from Luke, sometimes with a real baby in the manger, and the opening of one cousin gift each. We have had as many as 15 people playing instruments together. Santa comes and gives a gift to each child and teenager (grampas, uncles, and friends have worn the Santa suit over the years).

Christmas morning was celebrated in our home with the kids (sometimes multiple families spending the night) coming down the stairs to the living room where the presents are scattered around the tree. The stockings are passed out from the mantel and opened. Then everyone opens one gift at a time so all can share the joy. Then breakfast, socializing, and playing with toys, etc. Later in the day, we have a Christmas dinner often featuring traditional food from Poland or New Mexico, my home.  

For years our family has devoted a night sometime before Christmas to a festival of music in our home where we and all the guests perform instrumental and vocal Christmas music and poetry for each other, culminating in an hour of singing carols and sharing holiday treats. One year we even had bagpipes and a concert harp in our living room! We have shared the beauty of the Oxford Book of Carols and traditional Polish Christmas music.

For many years wards and stakes in our region have sponsored performances of The Messiah, holiday parties and dinners, community Christmas concerts with school and non-LDS church choirs, massive Nativity displays, and service like Giving Trees and Christmas food baskets.

I often attend Midnight Mass at a nearby Polish Catholic Church in remembrance  of my grandfather Piotr who was sexton, organist, choir director, and kindergarten teacher at Our Lady of Mt Carmel Catholic Church in Bayonne NJ. I enjoy the Polish mass, but I also love the way we celebrate Christmas. 

Because of  Covid, this is the first year since I was in the fourth grade that I have not organized, performed in, or conducted school, church, and professional Christmas orchestral and choir celebrations. That would be 64 years for those doing the math. This is the first time in decades that I have not played in a Christmas Messiah concert. In the past, Christmas has been my insane season with dozens of rehearsals, concerts, performing trips, and school programs starting in November. It really feels really weird. 

We can make of Christmas whatever we want. I don’t feel we neglect it or miss anything because we don’t have big communal events on Christmas Eve and Day 

 

2 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I'm having posole and tamales. We've got our luminaries out (you northerners like to call them farolitos)  

 

We're doing ribeye steaks for our Christmas dinner get-together.  With pecan pie.  I am from Texas.

[Rain]

38 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I'm having posole and tamales. We've got our luminaries out (you northerners like to call them farolitos)  

Oh yum!  Are you having pineapple tamales?  I heard about them being a Christmas thing when we moved here to AZ.  

[MiserereNobis]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

Oh yum!  Are you having pineapple tamales?  I heard about them being a Christmas thing when we moved here to AZ.  

Red chile and pork. I keep my tamales, like my Catholicism, traditional 😁

[california boy]

8 hours ago, Rain said:

 

Ok, you get your health improved, we get past covid and then we both travel to california boy's so he can teach us, if willing! 😀

I actually do ceramics as well.  So we can learn to throw pots and then make glass domes for the top.  Love to teach all who show up.  

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Red chile and pork. I keep my tamales, like my Catholicism, traditional 😁

Had tamales tonight. Very good. Tomorrow French toast, bacon, sausage, and hash browns.

[Calm]

I made a massive batch of waffles as if my grandkids and son and wife were actually going to join us for a week. Wishful thinking. 
 

I will have to cook them I guess after tomorrow and then freeze. They might last the three of us until the family gets to come over again. 
 

My secret ingredient for both flavor and tenderness is adding a cup of sour cream or plain whole milk yogurt (or two cups in this case). Not much difference between the two so I go with the yogurt if I got it. Makes them very tender and rich.  This time I added some vanilla and fresh ground nutmeg for a slight eggnog scent/taste.  I have started to use almond flour as that adds a nice texture and taste, but didn’t want to hassle with a different recipe this time that required more thought since I was doing it when brain was mostly asleep. 

[Bernard Gui]

On 12/24/2020 at 11:01 AM, MiserereNobis said:

I'm having posole and tamales. We've got our luminaries out (you northerners like to call them farolitos)  

Best posole I ever ate was at Eugene Naranjo’s home on their feast day. He was a tribal elder and President of the LDS branch and a good friend of my parents  in the Santa Clara Pueblo near Española. The Río Grande Restaurant in Española served the best sopaipillas and green chile in the world.. We put out luminarias here in WA when it isn’t raining. None this year because it poured all day. Feliz Navidad.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

On 12/24/2020 at 11:41 AM, Rain said:

Oh yum!  Are you having pineapple tamales?  I heard about them being a Christmas thing when we moved here to AZ.  

That’s a capital offense in New Mexico. Wrapping pineapple and masa in corn husks no more makes a tamale than stuffing a tortilla with fish makes a taco. Some things just should not be done.     Feliz Navidad.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Wrapping pineapple and masa in corn husks no more makes a tamale than stuffing a tortilla with fish makes a taco. Some things just should not be done.

Can we do it if we call it something else?  Because those are tasty.  (I feel the same way about calling them ‘fish tacos’).

Edited December 26, 2020 by Calm

[Rain]

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

That’s a capital offense in New Mexico. Wrapping pineapple and masa in corn husks no more makes a tamale than stuffing a tortilla with fish makes a taco. Some things just should not be done.     Feliz Navidad.

Maybe that's the problem.   This is not a New Mexico thing.  It is from Mexico.  Sometimes made with raisins and coconuts. 

I was intrigued about them so when my friend had her annual tamale making party I asked about them and did them too.   So glad I did as they tasted better than I imagined.

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, Rain said:

Maybe that's the problem.   This is not a New Mexico thing.  It is from Mexico.  Sometimes made with raisins and coconuts. 

I was intrigued about them so when my friend had her annual tamale making party I asked about them and did them too.   So glad I did as they tasted better than I imagined.

The only true tamales are made in the Río Grande valley between Santa Fe and Chimayo in New Mexico. With Chimayo, not Hatch, chiles. https://www.pepperscale.com/chimayo-pepper/

Edited December 26, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

7 hours ago, Calm said:

Can we do it if we call it something else?  Because those are tasty.  (I feel the same way about calling them ‘fish tacos’).

Well, that’s sort of a dessert “tamale.” Heresy.

Edited December 26, 2020 by Bernard Gui

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Well, that’s sort of a dessert “tamale.” Heresy.

Just leaves more for us then!

[bluebell]

7 minutes ago, Rain said:

Just leaves more for us then!

It looks like sweet tamales (tamales de dulces) were known anciently. One website claimed that different tamales were presented to different Aztec gods and that “the sweeter, more dessert tamales made with honey and bean were reserved for Xipe Totec, a deity of death and rebirth.”

Interesting stuff!

[The Nehor]

I think we invented the "no true tamale" fallacy.

[MiserereNobis]

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

The only true tamales are made in the Río Grande valley between Santa Fe and Chimayo in New Mexico. With Chimayo, not Hatch, chiles. https://www.pepperscale.com/chimayo-pepper/

Now now, don't let your northern bias get the better of you. Rio Grande valley tamales made with Chimayo chiles are awesome, just as Hatch valley tamales made with Hatch chiles are great, too. Both are true tamales