How would you make a covenant or two-way promise with God?

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, AtlanticMike said:

 Ultimately, after being on this board for almost 2 weeks now, I'm starting to see Mormonism in a different light. There's alot more fear of Gods judgement throughout Mormonism than What I thought.  I Dont fear God one bit. I see my relationship with my Heavenly parents no different than my relationship with my kids. And my kids never fear me, except when I eat Mexican food. 

 

17 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think your response is interesting because I don’t see fear of God as the motivation behind the disagreement. It is always so interesting to me how different we all see the world from each other, even for those that share fundamental ideas and beliefs. 

 

 

• Psalms 111:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
• Alma 39:12 And now the Spirit of the Lord doth say unto me: Command thy children to do good, lest they lead away the hearts of many people to destruction; therefore I command you, my son, in the fear of God, that ye refrain from your iniquities;
• Alma 34:37 And now, my beloved brethren, I desire that ye should remember these things, and that ye should work out your salvation with fear before God, and that ye should no more deny the coming of Christ;
• Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
• Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
• D&C 133:38 And the servants of God shall go forth, saying with a loud voice: Fear God and give glory to him, for the hour of his judgment is come;

And so forth...

[Ahab]

1 hour ago, AtlanticMike said:

I Dont fear God one bit. I see my relationship with my Heavenly parents no different than my relationship with my kids. And my kids never fear me, except when I eat Mexican food. 

That may have something to do with the fact that you can't send them to Hell.  Or maybe that you wouldn't.  

My "kids" (children) don't like to see me get angry with them because they know how I feel about them will affect the inheritance I will give them.

[AtlanticMike]

23 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

 

 

 

• Psalms 111:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
• Alma 39:12 And now the Spirit of the Lord doth say unto me: Command thy children to do good, lest they lead away the hearts of many people to destruction; therefore I command you, my son, in the fear of God, that ye refrain from your iniquities;
• Alma 34:37 And now, my beloved brethren, I desire that ye should remember these things, and that ye should work out your salvation with fear before God, and that ye should no more deny the coming of Christ;
• Ecclesiastes 12:13 ¶ Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
• Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
• D&C 133:38 And the servants of God shall go forth, saying with a loud voice: Fear God and give glory to him, for the hour of his judgment is come;

And so forth...

Yes, I understand what I say about not fearing God is considered blasphemy to alot of people. And I'll discuss it later in the coming weeks,  I dont want to derail nuclearfuels thread

[Calm]

38 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

nd so forth...

The word often translated as “fear” in the Bible can also be translated as “awe”. 
 

For usage in more modern scripture, Webster’s 1828;

Quote

In scripture, fear is used to express a filial or a slavish passion. In good men, the fear of God is a holy awe or reverence of God and his laws, which springs from a just view and real love of the divine character, leading the subjects of it to hate and shun every thing that can offend such a holy being, and inclining them to aim at perfect obedience. This is filial fear

And then there is 1 John 4:18, the love of God casts out fear. 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Calm

[AtlanticMike]

10 minutes ago, Calm said:

The word often translated as “fear” in the Bible can also be translated as “awe”. 
 

For usage in more modern scripture, Webster’s 1828;

And then there is 1 John 4:18, the love of God casts out fear. 

Holy crap Calm, that's exactly what I was going to talk about, that's why I didnt want to use nuclearfuels thread, this is a huge topic. But thank you for saying that, it made my day

[Calm]

45 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Holy crap Calm, that's exactly what I was going to talk about, that's why I didnt want to use nuclearfuels thread, this is a huge topic. But thank you for saying that, it made my day

I love the word “awe”, its sense. I wished we used it more. 

And awe doesn’t inherently mean distance.  Some of the most awe filled moments in my life were watching my two children just move when they were toddlers.  They were perfection in motion. Breathtaking and I mean that literally. Awe filled moments are very, very intimate for me.

And while I have never cared for “Amazing Grace”, I can never make it through “I Stand All Amazed” (though the way it usually gets sung with the words or notes slurring together is irritating).  My throat closes up with the intensity of meaning. Might be better with a different melody, but the words speak to my soul. 

Edited December 23, 2020 by Calm

[let’s roll]

39 minutes ago, Calm said:

And then there is 1 John 4:18, the love of God casts out fear. 

And one of my favorites from D&C:  Look to me in all things, doubt not, fear not.

[nuclearfuels]

On 12/22/2020 at 10:57 PM, Islander said:

You really do not understand scripture. You think you "merit" something because of obedience and that is just prideful talk. God blesses us because He wants to do so. He bestows upon us blessings not because of perfection in obedience but because of His love for us. His grace and mercy are the evidence of such love. The idea that you can derive blessings because of righteousness and outside of God's providence is pharisaic theology. Jesus destroyed their corrupt theology in Matthew 5. Read it. 

You're funny. 

Line upon Line: D&C 130:20–21

www.churchofjesuschrist.org › new-era › 2010/10 › lin...

 

1.  

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated. Irrevocably decreed. Irrevocably—unchangeably

[mgy401]

23 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

You're funny. 

Line upon Line: D&C 130:20–21

www.churchofjesuschrist.org › new-era › 2010/10 › lin...

 

1.  

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated. Irrevocably decreed. Irrevocably—unchangeably

Apparently, none of those laws have to do with rainfall.  

[Tacenda]

On 12/23/2020 at 3:14 PM, Ahab said:

That may have something to do with the fact that you can't send them to Hell.  Or maybe that you wouldn't.  

My "kids" (children) don't like to see me get angry with them because they know how I feel about them will affect the inheritance I will give them.

If this is how you treat them, I'd rather not get any kind of inheritance that was hung over them like that.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

If this is how you treat them, I'd rather not get any kind of inheritance that was hung over them like that.

Amen. 

[Kenngo1969]

On 12/3/2020 at 8:27 AM, bluebell said:

If we do what God says we need to do to receive a blessing, then we can depend on that promise.  But God isn't a vending machine, where if we just hit the correct buttons then He gives us what we want.  

Boy, have I learned that lesson time, and time, and time again!! 😀

Edited December 29, 2020 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

On 12/23/2020 at 4:25 PM, let’s roll said:

And one of my favorites from D&C:  Look to me in all things, doubt not, fear not.

I like that one, too, but you're not giving God enough credit for being a poet: It's, "Look unto me in every thought, doubt not, fear not."  (Too lazy to look it up and too hard on mobile, anyway ... 😀)

P.S.: OK.  Now that I'm not on mobile, it's Doctrine and Covenants 6:36.  

Edited December 29, 2020 by Kenngo1969

[AtlanticMike]

On 12/3/2020 at 10:27 AM, bluebell said:

If we do what God says we need to do to receive a blessing, then we can depend on that promise.  But God isn't a vending machine, where if we just hit the correct buttons then He gives us what we want.  

He might not be a vending machine, but if you push the right buttons he's just waiting to pour out blessings on you and your family. Approach him with no fear in your heart and let the blessings start flowing.

[bluebell]

20 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

He might not be a vending machine, but if you push the right buttons he's just waiting to pour out blessings on you and your family. Approach him with no fear in your heart and let the blessings start flowing.

No disagreement, as long as we remember that He picks the blessings.  There are a lot of worthy people, who desire and seek after righteous things, that will not receive them in this life.  They will be blessed, but God decides what those blessings are.

[JLHPROF]

7 minutes ago, bluebell said:

No disagreement, as long as we remember that He picks the blessings.  There are a lot of worthy people, who desire and seek after righteous things, that will not receive them in this life.  They will be blessed, but God decides what those blessings are.

This seems like a good excuse not to believe God means what he says.

[Kenngo1969]

48 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

He might not be a vending machine, but if you push the right buttons he's just waiting to pour out blessings on you and your family. Approach him with no fear in your heart and let the blessings start flowing.

 

27 minutes ago, bluebell said:

No disagreement, as long as we remember that He picks the blessings.  There are a lot of worthy people, who desire and seek after righteous things, that will not receive them in this life.  They will be blessed, but God decides what those blessings are.

 

19 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

This seems like a good excuse not to believe God means what he says.

OK, well, is it any wonder, then, that more than a few would-be-faithful members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints feel as though they should simply give up, after having earnestly sought particular righteously-desired blessings (Temple marriages, children, at least modest occupational success and fulfillment and (at least a level of) attendant economic stability, and so on) yet those blessings have eluded them even after hours, days, weeks, and years of earnest pleading, contually striving to live the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ to the best of their ability and understanding, only to see those blessings withheld or, as yet at least, denied? 

Whaddo we do?  Just turn on the gas?  (If I had a dime for every time that seemed to be among the most attractive options, at least on the economic side of the equation, I would want for absolutely nothing!)  "Shut 'er down, Clancy!  She's pumpin' mud!"   

Edited December 29, 2020 by Kenngo1969

[JLHPROF]

22 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

OK, well, is it any wonder, then, that more than a few would-be-faithful members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints feel as though they should simply give up, after having earnestly sought particular righteously-desired blessings (Temple marriages, children, at least modest occupational success and fulfillment and (at least a level of) attendant economic stability, and so on) yet those blessings have eluded them even after hours, days, weeks, and years of earnest pleading, contually striving to live the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ to the best of their ability and understanding, only to see those blessings withheld or, as yet at least, denied? 

Whaddo we do?  Just turn on the gas?  (If I had a dime for every time that seemed to be among the most attractive options, at least on the economic side of the equation, I would want for absolutely nothing!)  "Shut 'er down, Clancy!  She's pumpin' mud!"   

It seems to me that is a question of God's timing, not of blessings attached to faithful obedience.

If obedience exists, blessings will come in God's time.  But for the purposes of this thread, not on God's whim and they will not be withheld.
Lorenzo Snow taught this clearly.  Whether in this life or the life to come.

He also said:
"“When the Gospel dispensation was introduced, gifts and blessings were obtained upon similar principles; that is, upon obedience to certain established rules. The Lord still marked out certain acts, promising to all those who would do them, certain peculiar privileges; and when those acts were performed—observed in every particular—then those blessings promised were sure to be realized” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Lorenzo Snow, p. 49).

Edited December 29, 2020 by JLHPROF

[AtlanticMike]

26 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

 

OK, well, is it any wonder, then, that more than a few would-be-faithful members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints feel as though they should simply give up, after having earnestly sought particular righteously-desired blessings (Temple marriages, children, at least modest occupational success and fulfillment and (at least a level of) attendant economic stability, and so on) yet those blessings have eluded them even after hours, days, weeks, and years of earnest pleading, contually striving to live the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ to the best of their ability and understanding, only to see those blessings withheld or, as yet at least, denied? 

Whaddo we do?  Just turn on the gas?  (If I had a dime for every time that seemed to be among the most attractive options, at least on the economic side of the equation, I would want for absolutely nothing!)  "Shut 'er down, Clancy!  She's pumpin' mud!"   

Last year I was bidding  against a couple roofing companies way bigger than me and one of the companies had actually done work for this customer 2 previous times, he was a shoe in to get the job. I prayed and asked for wisdom, 2 minutes later the guy comes out and asked when I was done with my estimate for him, if I would also give his 80 year old mom a price to reroof her house, it was a tiny 1500 sqft condo. When I went there i got an impression to rake the yard, it only took 30 minutes, but the lady was so happy she called her son and within 5 minutes he was at his mom's condo helping me finish the leaves. We formed a friendship and I got the $45,000 job to roof his 12,000sqft house. That impression was the blessing, not the $45000 job. God can be a vending machine, you just have to know how to ask, then recognize what he's offering. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by AtlanticMike

[Tacenda]

26 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Last year I was bidding  against a couple roofing companies way bigger than me and one of the companies had actually done work for this customer 2 previous times, he was a shoe in to get the job. I prayed and asked for wisdom, 2 minutes later the guy comes out and asked when I was done with my estimate for him, if I would also give his 80 year old mom a price to reroof her house, it was a tiny 1500 sqft condo. When I went there i got an impression to rake the yard, it only took 30 minutes, but the lady was so happy she called her son and within 5 minutes he was at his mom's condo helping me finish the leaves. We formed a friendship and I got the $45,000 job to roof his 12,000sqft house. That impression was the blessing, not the $45000 job. God can be a vending machine, you just have to know how to ask, then recognize what he's offering. 

Not to take away from your experience, but why couldn't this just be that you are the reason you got the job. Because you're a good guy. Sure God deserves credit in many things, but IMO this was you. Your impression, IMO again, was from the kind of person you are. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Tacenda

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

This seems like a good excuse not to believe God means what he says.

Where does God say that if we are worthy we will have every righteous thing we will want during mortality? 

I'm sure all of the unmarried men and women who long for a spouse, all of the husbands and wives who cry for children they can't conceive, those who cry for children who are conceived and never take an actual breathe, those who have buried loved ones due to sickness, and those who themselves die of illnesses that others have been cured of, having to leave behind loved ones who need them, would love to read where God says that.

The fact is that we don't always get what we want in mortality--even when that want is righteous--because it's a good excuse to learn to trust God's will for our lives completely.  It's a good excuse to have trust and faith in God's timing.  It's a good excuse to learn that we cannot use faith to bring about a result that is contrary to the will of Him who we have faith in.  It's a good excuse to learn to bend our will to His, rather than seek to bend His will to our's.  It's a good excuse to learn patience. 

It's a good excuse to learn to be like Christ.

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, AtlanticMike said:

Last year I was bidding  against a couple roofing companies way bigger than me and one of the companies had actually done work for this customer 2 previous times, he was a shoe in to get the job. I prayed and asked for wisdom, 2 minutes later the guy comes out and asked when I was done with my estimate for him, if I would also give his 80 year old mom a price to reroof her house, it was a tiny 1500 sqft condo. When I went there i got an impression to rake the yard, it only took 30 minutes, but the lady was so happy she called her son and within 5 minutes he was at his mom's condo helping me finish the leaves. We formed a friendship and I got the $45,000 job to roof his 12,000sqft house. That impression was the blessing, not the $45000 job. God can be a vending machine, you just have to know how to ask, then recognize what he's offering. 

That's a wonderful blessing.  But it doesn't mean that everyone, yourself included, will always get what they pray for.  Sometimes we ask for things that are not in our best interest to receive, even when they are good things.

[Calm]

17 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Sometimes we ask for things that are not in our best interest to receive, even when they are good things.

Or others’ best interest.

[AtlanticMike]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Not to take away from your experience, but why couldn't this just be that you are the reason you got the job. Because you're a good guy. Sure God deserves credit in many things, but IMO this was you. Your impression, IMO again, was from the kind of person you are. 

You could definitely be correct because there's many times I've received certain things in my life and never prayed for them, that's just life I think. There's also times I've been totally screwed over and I dont blame that on satan or somehow I'm being punished.  It just makes me feel better to think that in this one example I just gave, it was me asking god for guidance that brought the impression to rake the leaves and through that action I was able to make a friend and a client.

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, AtlanticMike said:

You could definitely be correct because there's many times I've received certain things in my life and never prayed for them, that's just life I think. There's also times I've been totally screwed over and I dont blame that on satan or somehow I'm being punished.  It just makes me feel better to think that in this one example I just gave, it was me asking god for guidance that brought the impression to rake the leaves and through that action I was able to make a friend and a client.

I agree, after reading your post, I regretted posting but left it. I've done the same and prayed and was directed to do something that reaped benefit. And this surely helped my belief in God. So it wasn't very kind to try to put a blemish on your experience.