How would you make a covenant or two-way promise with God?

[Islander]

10 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

You asked, why would you obey if you dont believe? Well, because it works, it can bring you to a relationship with christ. Actually, isnt that exactly how converts are taught? When a missionary knocks on a door that person doesn't have faith yet. But through the lessons and following the direction of the missionaries (obeying their guidance) they can eventually gain a testimony (faith, belief).  Many people have been brought to a relationship with jesus in the church and in christianity by following the guidance of someone else, putting their trust in someone besides god until their able to kindle a relationship on their own with him. The path isnt as narrow as you make it out to be.

Wrong. I am a convert to the Church. It is the Spirit that testifies to our hearts that Jesus is the Christ, that Joseph was His chosen instrument in this dispensation to restore His Church. A true testimony is NOT an intellectual exercise, my friend. It is our Heavenly Father, thru the Holy Spirit, that open our eyes to the reality of the Gospel message. THEN and ONLY THEN, I was persuaded that true faith is demonstrated by obedience to the principles I knew to be true.

If you were baptized at 8 you have no idea of what I'm talking about because you don't think of yourself as a sinful, fallen human being in desperate need of a Savior. You have come to believe that "practical obedience" is what you need because "it works". I leave you to your interpretation and belief. I wish you the best. but please know that the scriptures are clear. When the Lord says that without His love in our hearts we are nothing, He means that.

[AtlanticMike]

1 hour ago, Islander said:

Wrong. I am a convert to the Church. It is the Spirit that testifies to our hearts that Jesus is the Christ, that Joseph was His chosen instrument in this dispensation to restore His Church. A true testimony is NOT an intellectual exercise, my friend. It is our Heavenly Father, thru the Holy Spirit, that open our eyes to the reality of the Gospel message. THEN and ONLY THEN, I was persuaded that true faith is demonstrated by obedience to the principles I knew to be true.

If you were baptized at 8 you have no idea of what I'm talking about because you don't think of yourself as a sinful, fallen human being in desperate need of a Savior. You have come to believe that "practical obedience" is what you need because "it works". I leave you to your interpretation and belief. I wish you the best. but please know that the scriptures are clear. When the Lord says that without His love in our hearts we are nothing, He means that.

I feel so relieved now that you have told me what I believe. You remind me of this old man I hired years ago, no one would hire him because he was dead set in laying roof shingles how he wanted to, not the way the employer wanted him to. Eventually at 60,  he couldn't swing a hammer because of arthritis, so when he came to me I told him I would hire him at $8 an hour instead of the $18 he was used to, but first thing he had to do was learn how to swing a hammer left handed. He looked at me like I was crazy. With nowhere else to go he started working for me and I put him on a part of the roof that he couldn't get in the way because he was so slow. Eventually he built up muscles in his left arm and enough coordination he could hang with the young guys. He found a new lease on life. He was happier even though he would never admit it. Point of the story is, to him, he could only see himself  laying shingles with his right hand swinging the hammer. But I didnt give a care which hand he used, he could of used his foot, as long as he tried and succeeded.  There's always more than one way to succeed.  Dont put limits on anyone islander, especially God, he will use whatever means neccessary to reach his children spiritually. If you only see righteousness in people who think like you, your missing out on growth that could benefit you spiritually 

Edited January 4, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[mfbukowski]

12 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

I feel so relieved now that you have told me what I believe. You remind me of this old man I hired years ago, no one would hire him because he was dead set in laying roof shingles how he wanted to, not the way the employer wanted him to. Eventually at 60,  he couldn't swing a hammer because of arthritis, so when he came to me I told him I would hire him at $8 an hour instead of the $18 he was used to, but first thing he had to do was learn how to swing a hammer left handed. He looked at me like I was crazy. With nowhere else to go he started working for me and I put him on a part of the roof that he couldn't get in the way because he was so slow. Eventually he built up muscles in his left arm and enough coordination he could hang with the young guys. He found a new lease on life. He was happier even though he would never admit it. Point of the story is, to him, he could only see himself  laying shingles with his right hand swinging the hammer. But I didnt give a chit which hand he used, he could of used his foot, as long as he tried and succeeded.  There's always more than one way to succeed.  Dont put limits on anyone islander, especially God, he will use whatever means neccessary to reach his children spiritually. If you only see righteousness in people who think like you, your missing out on growth that could benefit you spiritually 

God bless you for this wonderful post!

Edit- on re-reading it I suggest you change that one word so it says "I didn't give a care...."

Edited January 4, 2021 by mfbukowski

[nuclearfuels]

On 12/28/2020 at 10:35 PM, mgy401 said:

Apparently, none of those laws have to do with rainfall.  

Oh I'm definitely the unjust.

 

The thing is: God can't hold back blessings from you or me or anyone else, as long as we're obedient to the eternal law upon which it is predicated. 

 

[nuclearfuels]

On 12/31/2020 at 7:30 AM, AtlanticMike said:

Obedience can bring you to faith.

Prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of Hosts

[nuclearfuels]

On 12/29/2020 at 3:53 PM, AtlanticMike said:

Nuclearfuels, this is how I see your question being fulfilled. 

...but to secure for ourselves and for others blessings that GOd is already willing (And obligated?) to grant but that are made conditional on our asking for them.

We must first conceive of the greatness within ourselves, then pray to reach it.

CHildren of God, gods ourselves and joint-heirs

[AtlanticMike]

14 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

God bless you for this wonderful post!

Edit- on re-reading it I suggest you change that one word so it says "I didn't give a care...."

🤣🤣 just for you sir, I went back and changed it. Im going to repent now 😁

Edited January 4, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[Calm]

40 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

GOd is already willing (And obligated?)

Obligation may carry connotations that don’t work with God IMO.  There is a sense to me that one of the major motivations for fulfilling obligations is a sense of duty as opposed to just wanting to do it because he wants to help us grow.

Edited January 4, 2021 by Calm

[nuclearfuels]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Obligation may carry connotations that don’t work with God IMO.  There is a sense to me that one of the major motivations for fulfilling obligations is a sense of duty as opposed to just wanting to do it because he wants to help us grow.

Thanks Calm. GOod point.

Wouldn't God cease to be God if He didnt' follow eternal law and provide blessings for obedience to the law upon which that blessing is predicated?

He can't not bless me just because I'm a jerk, can He?

[Calm]

44 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

Thanks Calm. GOod point.

Wouldn't God cease to be God if He didnt' follow eternal law and provide blessings for obedience to the law upon which that blessing is predicated?

He can't not bless me just because I'm a jerk, can He?

Does God need to worry about laws when he knows the right thing to do and wants to do it because he wants the result, not because he should?  I think it gets confusing to talk about God sometimes because “laws” can be of the kind you can break like stealing stuff or laws that are really descriptions of how things work and can’t be ‘broken’...like gravity. Planes don’t break the law of gravity, they work because it and other physical laws are understood (at least as much as is needed).

So are the laws that cause God to be God the kind that can’t be broken, but only understood or are they something ‘imposed on’ him or rather committed to by God that technically he could break, but because he chooses to abide by them being that kind of being, he won’t?  

[Islander]

On 1/3/2021 at 6:40 PM, AtlanticMike said:

I feel so relieved now that you have told me what I believe. You remind me of this old man I hired years ago, no one would hire him because he was dead set in laying roof shingles how he wanted to, not the way the employer wanted him to. Eventually at 60,  he couldn't swing a hammer because of arthritis, so when he came to me I told him I would hire him at $8 an hour instead of the $18 he was used to, but first thing he had to do was learn how to swing a hammer left handed. He looked at me like I was crazy. With nowhere else to go he started working for me and I put him on a part of the roof that he couldn't get in the way because he was so slow. Eventually he built up muscles in his left arm and enough coordination he could hang with the young guys. He found a new lease on life. He was happier even though he would never admit it. Point of the story is, to him, he could only see himself  laying shingles with his right hand swinging the hammer. But I didnt give a care which hand he used, he could of used his foot, as long as he tried and succeeded.  There's always more than one way to succeed.  Dont put limits on anyone islander, especially God, he will use whatever means neccessary to reach his children spiritually. If you only see righteousness in people who think like you, your missing out on growth that could benefit you spiritually 

Brilliant! When you run out of ideas and lack a coherent argument, go on a baseless chatter about absolutely nothing and that will suffice. I supported my argument with scripture and all you can come up with is this bland, historical shaggy-dog story?

I guess life goes on. Good luck.

[AtlanticMike]

32 minutes ago, Islander said:

Brilliant! When you run out of ideas and lack a coherent argument, go on a baseless chatter about absolutely nothing and that will suffice. I supported my argument with scripture and all you can come up with is this bland, historical shaggy-dog story?

I guess life goes on. Good luck.

Wow!! this is the first time since I've been on this board, I've been able to not get upset when someone is being a keyboard warrior and throwing out insults. It feels good! I think I'm growing. Yay for me.  You'll never see me throw out to many scriptures islander because everyone, and I mean everyone interprets scriptures differently, so it's almost useless when you really think about it. Scriptures are for learning,  not proving points. You keep throwing out scriptures like your interpretation of them is the only relevant opinion, or as you would say, fact! Again, you can have your opinion and I can have mine. You can use scriptures and I'll use life lessons that have served me well, both can be inspirational as long as you have an open mind. Now, back to the topic. In your first post you made it seem like you thought nuclearfuels was trying to force God into a covenant. Me personally, when I read what he wrote, I thought it was inspirational  that he would feel like he had such a close relationship with his Heavenly father, he would offer things in exchange for Heavenly Fathers guidance. He never said one thing about forcing God to give him anything. And honestly,  what could it hurt?? Either God is going to help him in his endeavor alot, or a little. All long as nuclearfuels is keeping the commandments he should be able to ask God whatever he wants. Honestly,  tell me how that's a bad idea? 

[Kenngo1969]

@AtlanticMike Atlantic Mike(y):

In the spirit of the above, and to let you know that I didn't miss your point or your post when you came back to the other thread, I meant to reply, but it got shut down before I was able to do so.  You mentioned that your wife said you need to quit being such a thin-skinned wuss.  Um ... sorry.  I mean, she mentioned that you need to grow a thicker skin. Ask any two people their opinion about something (even something related to the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ) on this Board, and it's likely that you'll get three different opinions.  And ask them to give you their opinion about something on successive days, and you'll get a different opinion today than you did yesterday, and a different opinion tomorrow than you did today. None of us sees the world as it is; rather, we see it as we are.  And if two people are of absolutely the same opinion on absolutely everything, one of them is unnecessary.

I wish you well.

Pacific(ish) Ken(ny)

P.S.:  And congratulations.  It seems as though you're on your way to growing a thicker skin amidst the rough-and-tumble of this particular corner of Cyberspace.  Remember what Brigham Young is reported to have said once: He who takes offense when offense is not intended is a fool; he who takes offense when offense is intended is an even bigger fool.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, Islander said:

Brilliant! When you run out of ideas and lack a coherent argument, go on a baseless chatter about absolutely nothing and that will suffice. I supported my argument with scripture and all you can come up with is this bland, historical shaggy-dog story?

I guess life goes on. Good luck.

Lighten up, Francis!

[Calm]

34 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

Honestly,  tell me how that's a bad idea? 

I think there might be negative fallout if someone believes they have ‘fulfilled’ their part, but don’t see what they think should be provided by God....and interpret that as God being inconsistent, not listening, or not existing...iOW, the result is a loss of trust in the Lord.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Calm

[AtlanticMike]

16 minutes ago, Calm said:

I think there might be negative fallout if someone believes they have ‘fulfilled’ their part, but don’t see what they think should be provided by God....and interpret that as God being inconsistent, not listening, or not existing...iOW, the result is a loss of trust in the Lord.

Yes I agree that could definitely happen calm. It really depends if you're a glass half empty or a glass half full kinda person. Me, I strive to see the glass half full in everything I do. I've trained myself to have that outlook so I wouldn't have to take medication for depression. But, if someone has a glass half empty outlook, its always going to be hard to see a blessing from God. Again,  when I read what nuclearfuels said about making sacrifices and asking God for guidance, to me it sounds like he understands he's had a ongoing relationship with God even before his earthly life. Who knows, maybe he's already asked Heavenly Father & Mother for help a 1000 times when he was living with them in heaven before coming here. That's why I dont think that personal relationship ends just because we've been separated physically from them for a short time while living here on earth. I say, ask away! But keep in mind that your blessing could come in a way you weren't expecting. 

[AtlanticMike]

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

@AtlanticMike Atlantic Mike(y):

In the spirit of the above, and to let you know that I didn't miss your point or your post when you came back to the other thread, I meant to reply, but it got shut down before I was able to do so.  You mentioned that your wife said you need to quit being such a thin-skinned wuss.  Um ... sorry.  I mean, she mentioned that you need to grow a thicker skin. Ask any two people their opinion about something (even something related to the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ) on this Board, and it's likely that you'll get three different opinions.  And ask them to give you their opinion about something on successive days, and you'll get a different opinion today than you did yesterday, and a different opinion tomorrow than you did today. None of us sees the world as it is; rather, we see it as we are.  And if two people are of absolutely the same opinion on absolutely everything, one of them is unnecessary.

I wish you well.

Pacific(ish) Ken(ny)

P.S.:  And congratulations.  It seems as though you're on your way to growing a thicker skin amidst the rough-and-tumble of this particular corner of Cyberspace.  Remember what Brigham Young is reported to have said once: He who takes offense when offense is not intended is a fool; he who takes offense when offense is intended is an even bigger fool.

Well thank you! I'm starting to understand how this works. I can understand your humor, but the one person's sense of humor i cant understand is Ahab, I've been reading through old threads and that guy weirder than me 😁. I thought I was a jokester, but he's got me beat by a mile.🤣🤣

Edited January 7, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[AtlanticMike]

1 minute ago, AtlanticMike said:

Well thank you! I'm starting to understand how this works. I can understand your humor, but the one person's sense of humor i cant understand is Ahab, I've been reading through old threads and that guy weirder than me 😁. I thought I was a jokester, but he's got me beat by a mile.🤣🤣

And Ahab, when I say your weird,  I mean in a super special way, not the weirdly weird way😁

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

i cant understand is Ahab,

Join the club. 

[Ahab]

13 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

And Ahab, when I say your weird,  I mean in a super special way, not the weirdly weird way😁

If by "weird" you mean peculiar or a-not-so-ordinary-member-of-The-Church-of-Latter-day-Saints then I thank you for acknowledging that fact and bid you a fond adieu.

[AtlanticMike]

10 minutes ago, Ahab said:

If by "weird" you mean peculiar or a-not-so-ordinary-member-of-The-Church-of-Latter-day-Saints then I thank you for acknowledging that fact and bid you a fond adieu.

I love fondue! I have a great recipe for a seafood fondue if your interested 🤣🤣

[Ahab]

31 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

I love fondue! I have a great recipe for a seafood fondue if your interested 🤣🤣

Hmm, well, maybe.  I thoroughly enjoy seafood and recently made the [url=https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/233564/the-best-smoked-salmon-spread/]best salmon smoked spread/dip[/url] for our family's New Year's Eve celebration, made with some cream cheese, but I'm not super crazy about dips/fondues made with a whole lot of cheese, which is what I think is the main ingredient in most fondues and what makes a fondue a fondue instead of only a dip.  So as long as the fondue isn't super cheesy and is mostly seafood, I will probably like it.

edited to add: okay, can someone please tell me why my url link did not work as I formatted it?  That used to be the right way to do it, I think.

Edited January 7, 2021 by Ahab

[nuclearfuels]

On 1/3/2021 at 11:41 PM, Calm said:

rather committed to by God that technically he could break, but because he chooses to abide by them being that kind of being, he won’t

This one.  

Since His behavior doesn't change and He has chosen to obey eternal law, all we have to do is keep our part. 

I the Lord am bound when ye do what I say....

No?

[AtlanticMike]

18 hours ago, Ahab said:

Hmm, well, maybe.  I thoroughly enjoy seafood and recently made the [url=https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/233564/the-best-smoked-salmon-spread/]best salmon smoked spread/dip[/url] for our family's New Year's Eve celebration, made with some cream cheese, but I'm not super crazy about dips/fondues made with a whole lot of cheese, which is what I think is the main ingredient in most fondues and what makes a fondue a fondue instead of only a dip.  So as long as the fondue isn't super cheesy and is mostly seafood, I will probably like it.

edited to add: okay, can someone please tell me why my url link did not work as I formatted it?  That used to be the right way to do it, I think.

Well,, tell you the truth, I'm a little worried about sharing my grandmother's seafood fondue recipe with you now. You sound like one of those people who's willing to tamper with the seafood to cheese ratio. You would have my grandmother rolling over in her grave!!! And that wouldn't be a good situation because she was a little on the portly side. So no seafood fondue for you!!!!! I bid you a good day sir! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

Ps. As you can tell, I'm a morning person, sorry about that😁

Edited January 8, 2021 by AtlanticMike

[Ahab]

6 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

Well,, tell you the truth, I'm a little worried about sharing my grandmother's seafood fondue recipe with you now. You sound like one of those people who's willing to tamper with the seafood to cheese ratio. You would have my grandmother rolling over in her grave!!! And that wouldn't be a good situation because she was a little on the portly side. So no seafood fondue for you!!!!! I bid you a good day sir! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

 

Ps. As you can tell, I'm a morning person, sorry about that😁

That's okay.  If I want to make a seafood fondue I can find a recipe and actually many recipes without having to go through you or your grandmother.  Maybe even the same recipe you use.  I'm sure the 2 of you aren't the only ones who know it.

And yes I do often tamper with recipes to make them more to my liking.  Like how I doubled the amount of smoked salmon in that recipe I shared with you.  Because I like seafood, including salmon, a lot more than I like cheese.

(in the voice of Paul Harvey now) Good day !?!