Covid II: Medical Info and Implications

[pogi]

44 minutes ago, Senator said:

In some/maybe many regards, yes.  But I'm not interested in hashing it out here.

Just to make sure I understand - you have acknowledged that not getting vaccinated can affect other people in negative ways potentially including job losses, business closures, death, long term disability, inflation, etc. etc.   No compassion?  No moral accountability?

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by pogi

[Senator]

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

Just to make sure I understand - you have acknowledged that not getting vaccinated can affect other people in negative ways potentially including job losses, business closures, death, long term disability, inflation, etc. etc.   No compassion?  No moral accountability?

 

Oh, stop it!

[pogi]

22 minutes ago, Senator said:

Oh, stop it!

I see a moral dilemma in your thinking about vaccines.  I think it is perfectly legitimate to bring up. 

Elder Renlund has spelled out that moral responsibility for us in relation to masks.  I think the same applies to vaccines. 

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2020/12/7/22158497/mormon-lds-church-masks-covid-19-coronavirus-christlike-love-pandemic-apostle-renlund

Edited August 3, 2021 by pogi

[The Nehor]

46 minutes ago, Senator said:

My lack of fret is the problem?  Hard pass on that one.

No, it is the ‘it doesn’t matter until it impacts me’ mentality that is so prevalent that is the problem.

[pogi]

13 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

No, it is the ‘it doesn’t matter until it impacts me’ mentality that is so prevalent that is the problem.

Other people are just mostly over reacting.  It will never impact him.

[pogi]

Duplicate

Edited August 3, 2021 by pogi

[Calm]

5 hours ago, pogi said:

95 masks free for children is absolutely great news!  I will be requesting one for my kindergartener

Wow…will push for my youngest grandchild as the others are vaccinated. 

[Senator]

2 hours ago, pogi said:

Other people are just mostly over reacting.  It will never impact him.

Incredible!  You and nehor have absolutely no idea what my experiences and personal reaction have been. Yet,  you claim some high moral authority to judge me and commence to shame me.  Disgusting actually.   You two have at it.  I'm out.   

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Senator said:

Incredible!  You and nehor have absolutely no idea what my experiences and personal reaction have been. Yet,  you claim some high moral authority to judge me and commence to shame me.  Disgusting actually.   You two have at it.  I'm out.   

It is probably not wise to drop into a detailed and very serious conversation, make a superficial flippant remark or two that comes across as judgmental of others, and then expect to be treated as if you are taking the matter seriously as well. 
 

Why say anything at all if not willing to engage in substance?

[gurn]

Are they going to give a child a new N95 mask each day? I thought you could only use these a few times and sterilize with UV light after each day. Even then they are only good for a few days. At least a cloth masked can be washed after each use.

[pogi]

55 minutes ago, Senator said:

Incredible!  You and nehor have absolutely no idea what my experiences and personal reaction have been. Yet,  you claim some high moral authority to judge me and commence to shame me.  Disgusting actually.   You two have at it.  I'm out.   

I admit, it was a cheap shot, and I apologize.  But lets be fair, I am not the only one taking cheap shots and making judgments here.  You insinuate that I "fret" too much with "vehemence", am "disgusting", or that I (and all of America) are over-reacting.  Truth is, you have absolutely no idea of what my experiences (and the rest of America's/world) are either.   You say, "It's the "effect" in relation to the human reaction that is in question."  How is that not judging me and the rest of America without knowing what it is like to be in their shoes?  That comment really turned me off. 

I'll be honest, in regards to your comments on vaccination, I do think I hold the moral upper ground.  I think I can defend that position fairly easily, and I keep giving you an opportunity to defend your position, but you keep getting defensive and just making subtle attacks at me without ever trying to defend your position.  You can walk away if you want, but I am left unchallenged on my moral high ground that I absolutely do claim on the issue of vaccines not just being about the individual (as your original comment claimed).   I am passionate about prevention in medicine.  It is our greatest hope.  I am a public health nurse.  I have been away from my regular job for the last year and a half to work in Covid response.  I have personally talked with and consoled thousands of victims of covid and know their loss and suffering.  My wife's friend died from Covid.   I have 2 family members who are literally disabled with long-Covid.  My wife has seen every neuro-specialist in Utah trying to diagnose what is going on with her as she experiences random and inexplicable neurological symptoms.  She has been sleeplessly terrified that it could be Parkinsons or MS, but most specialists agree that it is most likely long covid and don't know what to expect or how to treat it.  She has just started a support group for it.  I know people who have lost their jobs.  I know how badly people have suffered economically through this.  This is the kind of real anxiety and life stuff that real people are experiencing, and it really turns me off for you to so casually downplay our emotional response to it.  The choice to not get vaccinated or wear masks can have devastating tentacles that can reach more than just the individual.  

Edited August 3, 2021 by pogi

[pogi]

21 minutes ago, gurn said:

Are they going to give a child a new N95 mask each day? I thought you could only use these a few times and sterilize with UV light after each day. Even then they are only good for a few days. At least a cloth masked can be washed after each use.

That is a really good question.  Some masks have N95 filters that can be easily replaced.  I have no idea what he has planned though.  One disposable N95 mask wont do much good in the long run, that is for sure. 

[bluebell]

17 minutes ago, gurn said:

Are they going to give a child a new N95 mask each day? I thought you could only use these a few times and sterilize with UV light after each day. Even then they are only good for a few days. At least a cloth masked can be washed after each use.

I was under the impression that they also had to be individually fitted to the person's face or they weren't effective.  Still, probably better than nothing I guess.

Edited August 3, 2021 by bluebell

[pogi]

15 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I was under the impression that they also had to be individually fitted to the person's face or they weren't effective.  Still, probably better than nothing I guess.

That is true.  It is super easy to fit it correctly though.  I am guessing they will come with instructions. 

[pogi]

37 minutes ago, gurn said:

Are they going to give a child a new N95 mask each day? I thought you could only use these a few times and sterilize with UV light after each day. Even then they are only good for a few days. At least a cloth masked can be washed after each use.

Here is a great solution if you have at least 2 masks to rotate:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7161499/

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

That is true.  It is super easy to fit it correctly though.  I am guessing they will come with instructions. 

Will these be different than the ones that have to be fit-tested once a year that they use in hospitals?  Sounds like they are.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Senator said:

Incredible!  You and nehor have absolutely no idea what my experiences and personal reaction have been.

You told us. You don’t think your decisions matter because they haven’t impacted your life.

1 hour ago, Senator said:

Yet,  you claim some high moral authority to judge me and commence to shame me.  Disgusting actually.

Speaking collectively to the demographic you represent: Pleas haven’t worked, reason hasn’t worked, maybe shame will work. If it does it is a better outcome than the lived reality I see as people regret not taking the vaccine and realize that they or someone they care about is dying due to something that was almost completely preventable. Your feeling bad doesn’t really measure in the scales against that.

1 hour ago, Senator said:

You two have at it.  I'm out.   

Bye.

[pogi]

28 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Will these be different than the ones that have to be fit-tested once a year that they use in hospitals?  Sounds like they are.

I doubt they will go to the extent of a fit test with these.  There will likely be instructions (I hope) for a seal check, which is much more realistic and easy to self check.  

[bluebell]

15 minutes ago, pogi said:

I doubt they will go to the extent of a fit test with these.  There will likely be instructions (I hope) for a seal check, which is much more realistic and easy to self check.  

I assumed there would be no fit-check.  I was just wondering if they were still effective without them being fit-checked.  It sounds like as far as hospital standards, they aren't effective and that's why the fit check once a year is mandatory but we are unlikely to replicate those standards.

[rongo]

11 hours ago, pogi said:

I really like Governor Cox.

https://www.ksl.com/article/50217015/utah-gov-coxs-office-to-provide-masks-for-students-who-want-them-this-fall

It sounds like he is willingly and proactively suggesting a loophole for local health departments to mandate masks to get around the law which restricts mask mandates in schools. 

N95 masks free for children is absolutely great news!  I will be requesting one for my kindergartener. 

Well, his hands are tied because of state law (same as in Arizona) as far as school mask and Covid vaccine mandates, but on its face, I can't complain, because it leaves the mask choice up to families/students. I have no problem with free masks for those who want them.

It seems to be more of a PR move/gesture of caring than a concrete move, though, for reasons that have already been pointed out. They aren't going to be handing them out like the boxes of blue/white paper masks. What good does it really do to hand out a one-time N95 mask? Besides show that you care and want to "proactively suggest a loophole" around state law . . .

[pogi]

24 minutes ago, rongo said:

Well, his hands are tied because of state law (same as in Arizona) as far as school mask and Covid vaccine mandates, but on its face, I can't complain, because it leaves the mask choice up to families/students. I have no problem with free masks for those who want them.

It seems to be more of a PR move/gesture of caring than a concrete move, though, for reasons that have already been pointed out. They aren't going to be handing them out like the boxes of blue/white paper masks. What good does it really do to hand out a one-time N95 mask? Besides show that you care and want to "proactively suggest a loophole" around state law . . .

The loophole wasn’t the masks.  It was that while the governor can’t, the health department can mandate masks in schools.  After further review, it sounds like it is futile anyway for the health department to issue a mandate when the legislature and filthy politicians have assumed that they know better than state epidemiologists, and have a tight grip in restricting the good that they can perform:

“Utah law outlines the process for health departments to establish mask requirements if needed. Utah law prohibits a “local education agency, an LEA governing board, the state board, the state superintendent, or a school from requiring face masks to attend or participate in in-person instruction, LEA-sponsored athletics, LEA-sponsored extracurricular activities, or in any other place on the campus of a school or school facility.”A health department could issue an order requiring masks in schools; however, the Legislature has set forth a process that must be followed which requires approval from the state or county elected officials as well as a 30-day limit on the order. The law also allows the Legislature or elected county officials to overturn an order at any time.”

As if this legislature would ever approve a mask mandate!  Futile!   

[The Nehor]

Today a friend of mine who works in EMS vented to a group of us about what is going on. I asked if I could edit out the profanity and the two inside jokes and repost it. He gave permission.

I should add that this was a venting thing after a long shift and not an exercise in statistics or triage and that he is to all appearances very skilled and I believe he is doing his best to help all his patients even if he does have gripes. He also has a perversely dark sense of humor (part of why I like him).

Quote

 

Burnt out after another shift trying to help these irrational Covid patients who didn’t or wouldn’t get the vaccine.

20% of them are morons who insist they have been poisoned or that they were attacked with a chemical agent deployed by whatever their bogeyman of the week is because Covid isn't real so it can’t be Covid. About 33% of this first group end up needing a chat with the police to get them to stop attacking our staff.

The most morbid comedy is the 20% who get the "How to Have Fun With this Breathing Tube" speech and immediately begin sobbing and the nurses and ER staff struggle to hold back from going off on "we told you so" rants while they prep the patient for the nightmarish treatment they probably won’t live through.

The remaining 60% get 15 liters of O2 via NRB and the paramedic gives them the now rote lecture about what's going to happen and we get to watch them get more and more morose until they hang their head in shame as we transfer them to the ER bed (assuming we still have one, stay tuned for changes here soon). They then almost all pitifully ask some variation of the same three questions: 

1. Is it too late to get the vaccine?
2. Can I see my family?
3. Why are so many people allowed to lie about the pandemic if it is legitimately dangerous?

The answers are “too late”, “no”, and “lol”, respectively.

Then off to try to save the next death cultist.

 

 

[Kenngo1969]

I'm not sure if anyone has posted this here yet.  Frankly the thread is too damn convoluted, confusing, and depressing for me to hang out here for long or on any kind of a regular basis. So forgive any duplication, if duplication there be:  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/variant.html

Alpha, Beta, Delta, Eta, Epsilon, Gamma, Iota, Lambda, Mu, Nu, Pi, Rho, et cetera, ad infinitum, ad nauseam.  (If anybody didn't hate Greek before, he or she will for sure once this thing is all over-whenever the hell that is! )  Incidentally, that reminds me: When I was in Sigma Gamma Chi, one of my august brethren suggested that we should give our chapter a name: Iota Eta Pi.   Think about it.  Thiiiiiink about it.   See?  I knew you'd get it!

And then there's this, from the Deseret News: https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/8/3/22608224/delta-variant-third-new-covid-vaccine. (Again, forgive any duplication.) 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Kenngo1969

[Tacenda]

14 hours ago, gurn said:

Are they going to give a child a new N95 mask each day? I thought you could only use these a few times and sterilize with UV light after each day. Even then they are only good for a few days. At least a cloth masked can be washed after each use.

I think the N95 is fine, but the kids really enjoyed their cute masks, be it a super hero or a unicorn one and many in between. I hope they can keep the material ones that can be washed and traded out. I work in the schools and saw how well they did with wearing them until they got into six grade then I saw a few noses and constantly reminding them to cover it, seems the older they got the more rebellion about it. 

[Kenngo1969]

https://www.deseret.com/coronavirus/2021/8/3/22607538/florida-covid-variant-severe-dangerous