Covid II: Medical Info and Implications

[The Nehor]

4 minutes ago, Danzo said:

you can find quotes from apostles about anything if you look hard enough.

I meant the concerted agreement of the apostles or at least the apostles in the First Presidency. Then-Elder Benson denouncing communism and saying that communism and the gospel are incompatible is not on the same level as President Nelson and his counselors speaking together.

[Danzo]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I meant the concerted agreement of the apostles or at least the apostles in the First Presidency. Then-Elder Benson denouncing communism and saying that communism and the gospel are incompatible is not on the same level as President Nelson and his counselors speaking together.

So you think all of the stakes in my coordinating counsel are in apostasy because there isn't a mask requirement (or mask suggestion)?

[pogi]

8 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I can see why you are interpreting that like you are, but I don't think most members are interpreting it the same way.  Even re-reading it now, I don't really see it as much different than the sign that is currently hanging in my local walmart, which walmart knows most people are ignoring.  It's a recommendation (largely to assuage any liability issues), not an expectation.

But you seem to be saying that our leaders are expecting the members to wear masks now based solely on the many changes of the CDC recommendations, without any new input from them.  I would be really surprised if our leaders thought that was going to happen.

After an apostle insinuated that we are not following the second great commandment if we are not wearing a mask, After the multiple requests and appeals to civic responsibility, after the area presidency’s strong worded letter (with approval from the GAs), after the interfaith appeals, I think it amounts to more than a simple liability issue.  They are appealing to our morality over and over.

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by pogi

[pogi]

18 minutes ago, bluebell said:

That talks about the october conference.  I'm asking about the April conference, when they were sitting in the semi-circle waiting for their turn to talk.

I am having a hard time posting from my phone, but I just looked at a picture and they are all wearing masks.

[Danzo]

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

After an apostle insinuated

So now worthiness is measured by our response to insinuations by our leaders? 

Edited August 2, 2021 by Danzo

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, pogi said:

After an apostle insinuated that we are not following the second great commandment if we are not wearing a mask.  After the multiple requests and appeals to civic responsibility, after the area presidency’s strong worded letter (with approval from the GAs), I think it amounts to more than a simple liability issue.  They are appealing to our morality over and over.

Which area presidency strongly worded letter?  There are multiple presidencies, right?  I'm not remembering a strongly worded one but it's been a while.  Did all the wards get something similar?

I don't think it's simply a liability issue either, but I also don't think that it's an ongoing expectation our leaders have, that our members are going to use the CDC recommendations as a litmus test for knowing when the prophet expects us to be masked at church. 

If our leadership decides that we need to be wearing masks at church again, they will let us know.  They won't rely on the CDC to inform the members on it.  Most members know that and will assume that until that happens, leadership doesn't think masks are necessary yet.

 

[bluebell]

9 minutes ago, pogi said:

I am having a hard time posting from my phone, but I just looked at a picture and they are all wearing masks.

I could only find one from October, that was printed under the headline on how April's conference will once again be remote.  It was published before the conference occurred so couldn't be from April.

But you could still definitely be correct.

[bsjkki]

Two vaccinated senators and a congressman have tested positive today.

*maybe only one senator. Can’t confirm with 2nd source the 2nd senator.

Edited August 3, 2021 by bsjkki

[pogi]

13 minutes ago, Danzo said:

So now worthiness is measured by our response to insinuations by our leaders? 

I will let you interpret and obey as you will:

“Today I speak to you not as a former physician. I speak to you as an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ...

...we also must keep in mind that as individuals, as families, and as a Church we will be judged by how we treat the vulnerable and disadvantaged in our societies. As the COVID-19 pandemic spreads around the world, it wreaks havoc among those who are already disadvantaged. Sadly, responses to the pandemic have been politicized and contentious. Our response need not be...

...The Savior taught that the second great commandment, after loving God, was “thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself” (Matthew 22:39). As it relates to this pandemic...that means  wearing a mask...”

@bluebellAgain, a STRONG appeal to morality, not anything like a sign at Walmart or a liability issue.  That is the position of the church.  They have already spoken.  They shouldn’t need to repeat themselves with every CDC update.

 

 

Edited August 2, 2021 by pogi

[The Nehor]

37 minutes ago, Danzo said:

So you think all of the stakes in my coordinating counsel are in apostasy because there isn't a mask requirement (or mask suggestion)?

Yes, but a mild and possibly ignorant one. The one I found in pretty blatant apostasy was a bishop in a ward I attended who bore his testimony/complained about masks and not being able to see faces.

If the First Presidency does reiterate that stakes should follow recommendations and your stake still doesn’t cooperate…..yeah, I would call that apostasy.

Edited August 2, 2021 by The Nehor

[bluebell]

15 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yes, but a mild and possibly ignorant one. The one I found in pretty blatant apostasy was a bishop in a ward I attended who bore his testimony/complained about masks and not being able to see faces.

If the First Presidency does reiterate that stakes should follow recommendations and your stake still doesn’t cooperate…..yeah, I would call that apostasy.

I struggle with the idea that no following something that is published on the church's newsroom page would rise to the level of apostasy.  Can one even be in apostasy for not following a policy?

Edited August 3, 2021 by bluebell

[Calm]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

They are appealing to our morality over and over.

They tried that with Prohibition, didn’t they?

[pogi]

24 minutes ago, Calm said:

They tried that with Prohibition, didn’t they?

Ya, but I think a better comparison is drunk driving.  That is a moral issue because we put other people and ourselves at risk when we drink and drive.  Same when we don’t wear a mask.  
 

My point was simply that their encouragement amounts to more than something akin to a Walmart sign or liability issue.  The brethren truly see this as a moral issue.  I agree with them.

[bsjkki]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Do not take Ivermectin to prevent or cure Covid.

That is all.

Really? I thought a double blind study was the ‘gold standard?’

https://m.jpost.com/health-science/israeli-scientist-says-covid-19-could-be-treated-for-under-1day-675612/amp?__twitter_impression=true

”In Schwartz’s study, some 89 eligible volunteers over the age of 18 who were diagnosed with coronavirus  and staying in state-run COVID-19 hotels were divided into two groups: 50% received ivermectin, and 50% received a placebo, according to their weight. They were given the pills for three days in a row, an hour before a meal.

The volunteers were tested using a standard nasopharyngeal swab PCR test with the goal of evaluating whether there was a reduction in viral load by the sixth day – the third day after termination of the treatment. They were swabbed every two days.

Nearly 72% of volunteers treated with ivermectin tested negative for the virus by day six. In contrast, only 50% of those who received the placebo tested negative.

IN ADDITION, the study looked at culture viability, meaning how infectious the patients were, and found that only 13% of ivermectin patients were infectious after six days, compared with 50% of the placebo group – almost four times as many.”

 

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by bsjkki

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

thought a double blind study was the ‘gold standard?’

Replicated double blind.   

[The Nehor]

If Ivermectin is found to be helpful with more comprehensive studies great. Don’t buy it now and take it. Especially do not buy the vet Ivermectin treatments made for animals that are flying off the shelves.

I just talked to someone who is stocking up on Ivermectin ‘just in case’. I asked why not just get the vaccine. He responded that he doesn’t trust it since it was an emergency FDA authorization and he is worried about side effect. So he is bypassing something because it has a different lesser FDA authorization for something with no FDA authorization. Also he is bypassing something that millions have taken with minimal side-effects for something that has much more deadly side-effects.

Why not take it instead? It is the Covid weapon of choice. 99 out of 100 Russian Internet bots promote it.

[bsjkki]

10 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

much more deadly side-effects.

CFR

[pogi]

42 minutes ago, Calm said:

Replicated double blind.   

Preferably with a much larger sample size.  The test group and the blind group only had around 44-45 people in it.   That is WAY too small to make any recommendations for the general public based on these results.  
 

All this study is is a primer for other people to study it further.

[bsjkki]

39 minutes ago, Calm said:

Replicated double blind.   

I found a few a few more double blind studies of ivermectin but I guess there have been at least 21 double blind studies showing positive results. 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/

Personally I don’t know why we are not using this early in the disease to aide recovery. The only risk of death is if people stupidly use animal products without a properly prescribed dosage. 

 

 

 

[The Nehor]

15 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

CFR

Googling “Ivermectin side effects” is that big of a burden?

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Googling “Ivermectin side effects” is that big of a burden?

Hey, she is busy with other research. Back off.   

[Calm]

handy dandy list of side effects…no percentages attached though. Need to find percentages at dosages used for Covid. 
 

https://www.webmd.com/drugs/2/drug-1122/ivermectin-oral/details/list-sideeffects

[bsjkki]

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Googling “Ivermectin side effects” is that big of a burden?

I didn’t make the claim. Please show evidence of your claim.

[Calm]

Quote

The FDA has received multiple reports of patients who have required medical support and been hospitalized after self-medicating with ivermectin intended for horses.

Are there any reports of hospitalization when using human versions (will look for next, but if someone knows already…)?

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-should-not-use-ivermectin-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

FDA report says basically the horse stuff is no good for humans, human versions we don’t know yet. 
 

So it does seem weird to take it when the issue with the vaccine is lack of FDA approval. 
 

But look at the health supplement industry out there. And lots of users don’t worry about drug interactions with supplements and purity issues.  My guess is because it gives them a sense of control where sometimes there is little of it (my daughter is thoroughly depressed today and I am feeling rather defeated because of another appointment that finds ‘nothing wrong that we can see’, so I may be projecting but maybe I just understand the mindset when I have to jump through hoops every damn month to get a drug that works with very few side effects for me and shell out thousands of dollars a year for it, being able to get something without having to beg for it…so appealing; same with feeling like I am being treated like an adult, very appealing also…though I think most health supplements are treating us like suckers).

Edited August 3, 2021 by Calm

[pogi]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

I could only find one from October, that was printed under the headline on how April's conference will once again be remote.  It was published before the conference occurred so couldn't be from April.

But you could still definitely be correct.

I got curious and had to check.  i got a screen shot from Sunday morning session.  They are all definitely wearing masks.  The pic is too large and it won't let me upload it though.

Here is the link:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2021/04/sunday-morning-session?lang=eng

There is only a brief moment where it shows all of them in a screen shot.  Go to 1:49:52.  For a brief moment before that Elder Uchtdorf had his mask off and put it right back on. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by pogi