The Land of Nephi, Chocó Province Colombia.

[Jracforr]

The land of Nephi in Colombia was adjoined by the Land of Zarahemla, which ended at the narrow neck of Land we call the Panama Canal, at this point it became the Land Bountiful. 
 

 

[Jracforr]

The Atrato River flows North through the Province , entering the sea at the Darien Gulf. This River is referred to as the River Sidon in the Book of Mormon,and it’s Delta , probably accommodated the City Moroni, which sank into the sea after an Earthquake. The Provincial Capital Quibdo, might have been built over the ruins of the City Manti, which was said to be located near the source of the River Sidon.

[mfbukowski]

Error

Edited August 18, 2020 by mfbukowski
Error

[2BizE]

There would likely be millions of steel swords all over...

[mrmarklin]

3 hours ago, 2BizE said:

There would likely be millions of steel swords all over...

I doubt it. In that damp climate, they’re all rusted away. 

[mrmarklin]

6 hours ago, Jracforr said:

The land of Nephi in Colombia was adjoined by the Land of Zarahemla, which ended at the narrow neck of Land we call the Panama Canal, at this point it became the Land Bountiful. 
 

 

You realize that the Isthmus of Panama is impassible even to this day, right?

[Jracforr]

To our generation it might be impassable, but this region is not nearly as rugged as the mountains of Peru and the Incas crossed those mountains and built cities which we can hardly comprehend today. There is nothing about this region in Panama that would make it unconquerable for those who are determined to do so , as the Incas demonstrated in their homeland of Peru.

[Jracforr]

Did a Spanish army not cross this isthmus to the Pacific Coast in the 16th century ? 

[rodheadlee]

19 minutes ago, Jracforr said:

Did a Spanish army not cross this isthmus to the Pacific Coast in the 16th century ? 

Yes from Portlbelo. It's not passable to travel by land to Columbia on the Carribean side. I don't think it's passable by land on the Pacific side either. Everyone travels by boat.

Check it out on Google Maps with satellite it's all Jungle and mountains there is no Highway over the mountains. The Cruisers were all earning money running people to Columbia by boat. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by rodheadlee

[Bernard Gui]

Interesting history of travel across the Darien Gap. Panama was part of my mission in the mid-60s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darién_Gap

[Robert F. Smith]

10 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

You realize that the Isthmus of Panama is impassible even to this day, right?

 

8 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Yes from Portlbelo. It's not passable to travel by land to Columbia on the Carribean side. I don't think it's passable by land on the Pacific side either. Everyone travels by boat.

Check it out on Google Maps with satellite it's all Jungle and mountains there is no Highway over the mountains. The Cruisers were all earning money running people to Columbia by boat. 

So there is no Pan American Highway through Panama?

[ksfisher]

58 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

 

So there is no Pan American Highway through Panama?

Darién Gap[edit]

 

Map of the Darién Gap and the break in the Pan-American Highway between Yaviza, Panama and Turbo, Colombia

Main article: Darién Gap

The Pan-American Highway is interrupted between Panama and Colombia by a 106 km (70 mi) stretch of marshland known as the Darién Gap. The highway terminates at Turbo, Colombia and Yaviza, Panama. Because of swamps, marshes, and rivers, construction would be very expensive.

Efforts have been made for decades to eliminate the gap in the Pan-American highway, but have been controversial. Planning began in 1971 with the help of United States funding, but this was halted in 1974 after concerns raised by environmentalists. Another effort to build the road began in 1992, but by 1994 a United Nations agency reported that the road, and the subsequent development, would cause extensive environmental damage. The Embera-Wounaan and Kunahave also expressed concern that the road could bring about the potential erosion of their cultures.

The Darién Gap has challenged adventurers for many years. A 1962 expedition with three Chevrolet Corvair rear-engine cars [and two support trucks] completed the trip south [from Chicago] through to the Colombian border.^[13] A 1971-72 British expedition from Alaska to Argentina attempted to transit the Gap with two standard production Range Rovers, supported by a team of Land Rovers. They barely succeeded in thrashing a passage through the extreme terrain.^[14] In 1979 a team led by Mark Smith drove standard production CJ7-model Jeeps from South to North, traversing the Gap - with difficulty.^[15] In June 1984, Loren and Patty Upton took 741 days slogging, winching, chopping and digging their way through the inhospitable jungles of the Darién Gap.

One proposed option to bridge the gap is a short ferry link from Colombia to a new ferry port in Panama,^[16] with an extension of the existing Panama highway that would complete the highway without violating these environmental concerns. However, past attempts to operate such a service have ended in failure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-American_Highway#Darién_Gap

 

[mrmarklin]

2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

 

So there is no Pan American Highway through Panama?

That is exactly correct. My uncle was chief surveyor of the Highway. It was impossible to build a road all the way north to south. 

[Robert F. Smith]

55 minutes ago, mrmarklin said:

That is exactly correct. My uncle was chief surveyor of the Highway. It was impossible to build a road all the way north to south. 

Thus, there is 70 miles of gap (Darien Gap) between the two pieces of highway.  In any discussion, the primary point to be made is that the Panama Canal region is impassable mountain and jungle such that even the Pan-American Highway could not be built through it.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Robert F. Smith

[strappinglad]

I suggest a monorail system built on pedestals sunk deep into the bedrock and extending 50 ft above the jungle floor. Imagine the tourist attraction!🤑

[Calm]

5 hours ago, strappinglad said:

I suggest a monorail system built on pedestals sunk deep into the bedrock and extending 50 ft above the jungle floor. Imagine the tourist attraction!🤑

Apparently the issue is environmental and social impact.  It is technically possible, even if difficult and very expensive from what I read.  (I forgot KS Fischer posted this info before).  Nowadays added difficulty of drug smugglers and human traffickers along with the high end border patrol trying to keep them out (tourists need to get permission to enter the gap and apparently often don't get it).

This includes preventing immigration of diseased animals (I read foot and mouth disease specifically) and fear of disruption of local culture (the cultures mentioned in KS's post) as well as destruction of marshlands and such.

Gorgeous pictures with informative text:

https://expertvagabond.com/darien-gap-photos/

Ach!  They were going to use nuclear bombs to build a canal back in the day:  

https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1890/0012-9623-96.1.54

also:

Quote

The Atlantic–Pacific Interoceanic Canal Study Commission proposed five routes for a sea‐level canal as one part of Project Plowshare. The least‐cost, most remote route (Sasardi‐Morti) was to cross Darien, Panama; it was thought to minimize impacts on the existing canal and on large population centers (Fig. 1). However, this route would have long‐term, detrimental effects on one of the most species‐rich tropical forests in Central America with extraordinarily high endemism. The highway would also have affected the livelihood of indigenous Choco and Kuna as well as African‐American and Hispanic settlers who occupied scattered villages in the Darien, whose livelihood depended on fishing and river travel (Bennett 1968, Wali 1993).

In 1972, as a result of efforts to delay these two construction projects in eastern Panama, there was an opportunity to protect one of the most biologically diverse and largest tropical rain forests in Central America, with the establishment of Alto Darién Protection Forest. In 1980, the Darién National Park was established and recognized as a World Heritage Site in 1981, and a Biosphere Reserve in 1983. This protected area extends over 575,000 ha of mountains, wetlands, and floodplains defined by the drainages of the Chucunaque‐Tuira, Balsas, Sambú, Congo, and Sabanas rivers. Populations of Afro‐Americans and indigenous groups including the Embera, Wounaan, and Kuna continue to use the rivers as sources of fish and the forests as sources of fruits, wildlife, and building materials (Herlihy 1989, 2003, Runk 2012). Although gold mining, deforestation, political unrest, and agricultural expansion continue to some extent, there remains an opportunity to manage this large region and to sustain biological and cultural diversity.

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by Calm

[Ahab]

19 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

You realize that the Isthmus of Panama is impassible even to this day, right?

Lots of plants, I'm guessing.  They have probably been growing and growing and growing for years and years and years.  And I'm sure there are also lots and lots and lots of pesky insects and snakes and other things too.

[pogi]

20 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

You realize that the Isthmus of Panama is impassible even to this day, right?

The reason it is impassable today by car is mostly political.  I don't think environmentalists would have blocked efforts back in the day.  The gap in the Pan-American highway is only 66 miles.  It may be impassable by road cars, but off-road vehicles have and do pass it.  It is certainly passable by foot also.  In fact, the Darien Gap is home to around 1,700 indigenous people who reside in this supposedly impassable area.  There has been little archaeology done in the area, but what has been done reveals " impressive platform mounds, plazas, paved roads, stone sculpture, and artifacts made from jade, gold, and ceramic materials".   It appears the ancients were more advanced and developed in the area than we are today, with "paved roads" even.

Info gathered from Bernard's link.

 

Edited August 17, 2020 by pogi

[pogi]

48 minutes ago, Ahab said:

And I'm sure there are also lots and lots and lots of pesky insects....

Lots of malaria, and yellow fever.  Yuck. 

[Jracforr]

The ancient cities and infrastructure  that crisscrossed this region, were partly  broken up by earthquakes and  volcano,  as stated in the Book of Mormon. To suggest that after  sixteen centuries of decay and jungle growth, these areas could not have communicated with each other in the past, is a bit comical. Radar is currently being used to penetrate jungle overgrowth to reveal  ancient cities and infrastructure across the hemisphere, revealing engineering structures that rival those of our era. 

[rodheadlee]

1 hour ago, Jracforr said:

The ancient cities and infrastructure  that crisscrossed this region, were partly  broken up by earthquakes and  volcano,  as stated in the Book of Mormon. To suggest that after  sixteen centuries of decay and jungle growth, these areas could not have communicated with each other in the past, is a bit comical. Radar is currently being used to penetrate jungle overgrowth to reveal  ancient cities and infrastructure across the hemisphere, revealing engineering structures that rival those of our era. 

Do you have a link to some of the LiDAR information for this area? I never said they didn't communicate, I said they traveled by boat. I would certainly be interested in seeing some LiDAR shots.

[Bernard Gui]

7 hours ago, pogi said:

Lots of malaria, and yellow fever.  Yuck. 

I had to get a yellow fever vaccination before my mission in Central America. My mom drove me to the Air Force hospital in Albuquerque, the only place I could get it...about 100 miles from our home. When we got back about 3 in the afternoon, I said I was tired and wanted to take a nap. I woke up around 5pm and asked when was dinner. Oh. That was 5pm the next day!

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Do you have a link to some of the LiDAR information for this area? I never said they didn't communicate, I said they traveled by boat. I would certainly be interested in seeing some LiDAR shots.

The only way to get to the area around the San Bläs Islands where the Kuna people live was by boats or small plane. Elders who served there were really isolated..

[Robert J Anderson]

37 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I had to get a yellow fever vaccination before my mission in Central America. My mom drove me to the Air Force hospital in Albuquerque, the only place I could get it...about 100 miles from our home. When we got back about 3 in the afternoon, I said I was tired and wanted to take a nap. I woke up around 5pm and asked when was dinner. Oh. That was 5pm the next day!

Glad you didn't have any more severe complications from the vaccine.  When I had the yellow fever vaccine, I felt a little tired but nothing remarkable like your experience.

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I had to get a yellow fever vaccination before my mission in Central America. My mom drove me to the Air Force hospital in Albuquerque, the only place I could get it...about 100 miles from our home. When we got back about 3 in the afternoon, I said I was tired and wanted to take a nap. I woke up around 5pm and asked when was dinner. Oh. That was 5pm the next day!

Did you turn yellow?