Home Church

[PacMan]

11 hours ago, bluebell said:

Any chance you could message me the relevant portion of the text?  

I don’t mind you asking. But as it was given in confidence I don’t feel right passing it along without permission. 

[PacMan]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

I think this might miss out on an opportunity for a priest to learn the importance of his priesthood.  Not saying encouragement of nonworthiness, but if he had made the effort in the past week to abide by baptismal covenants...I wish that might be enough. 

Not really. First, it takes about 2 minutes to issue a recommend if the priest would like one. Second, our Bishop is very open to discussing exceptions. These criteria equate to general authorizations so he can avoid micromanaging while ensuring everything is done in order. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

12 hours ago, PacMan said:

This also includes a prohibition on meeting together with friends for the service. Only families.

Two-thirds of all adults in the Church are single. Our ward reflects this reality. What about them?

Edited March 18, 2020 by Hamba Tuhan

[PacMan]

31 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Two-thirds of all adults in the Church are single. Our ward reflects this reality. What about them?

What about them? Not sure I understand. Replace family with household. Doesn’t matter how many people are under the roof, be it one or ten. Same access to the ordinance. And I’d they can’t, that’s what ministering brothers are for. 

mom second thought, I think I understand what you’re asking. Family gatherings as well as friends (multiple households) are similarly not permitted. It’s home by home.

Edited March 18, 2020 by PacMan

[JAHS]

Here's a good object lesson to teach your kids during your Sunday service or Family night.

 

[Scott Lloyd]

16 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Our bishop said "it is not necessary to take the sacrament more than once per month" so he will be allowing the sacrament once per month. Each and every instance (every household each time) has to be approved in advance.

For those without a priesthood holder in the home they will arrange for someone to come to the home. Only 1 person is needed. The non-priesthood holder will prepare their own water and bread and receive it themselves after the priesthood holder has blessed it through a screen door or window.

Seriously. This is craziness. It extremely controlling to require approval for each family in each instance instead of giving a blanket approval. I have yet to determine the benefit of denying someone the opportunity to receive the sacrament weekly if they are able. Would anyone like to try to explain that one?  

Also, blessing the sacrament through the door is interesting and raises some questions. If the sacrament can be blessed through a door or window, why not over the phone, or over skype?

I don’t get where this idea comes from that the sacrament is only needed once a month. If that were the case, why administer it weekly at Church meetings under normal circumstances? 
 

I can understand the direction to put a monthly frequency on taking it to shut-ins, etc. That seems like a concession to logistics. Having a non-household-member come in weekly could increase the hazard of spreading the virus and defeat the purpose of suspending group gatherings. 
 

But where it’s convenient, with one or more eligible and worthy priesthood holders in the home, it seems more than justifiable and appropriate to administer it in the home weekly. 
 

That said, I would always follow the direction of the bishop on this matter, as it is he who holds the keys to administration of this and other ordinances. 

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Two-thirds of all adults in the Church are single. Our ward reflects this reality. What about them?

The isolation and loneliness slowly drive them to madness and depravity.

Not a big deal. We were already doing that anyways.

[Calm]

6 hours ago, sunstoned said:

This might become the new normal. Schools/colleges might find out that they can teach effectively online and it could become a standard option.

Would cut down on tuition given less space so they could have more students, more faculty to cover those classes so academics might like that. Might be the solution to those ridiculous student loans.  Take a couple of years of your online courses and then the last year or two, in person classes for when there needs to be more student interaction. Sciences that require labs would need in person work, art classes that need more instruction and feedback during the creation process, sports/dance classes and other hands on subjects wouldn’t convert easy, but history, English, math seem relatively easy. 
 

My husband teaches entrepreneurship and part of the work of a couple of classes is starting a business with your group and then presenting at the end of the semester on success. Another is helping businesses that come in for advice. That and group work would be harder.  He is interested to see how it would go. Believes it is likely to be easier on him once he has the setup done. 

[Calm]

6 hours ago, sunstoned said:

This might become the new normal. Schools/colleges might find out that they can teach effectively online and it could become a standard option.

Would cut down on tuition given less space so they could have more students, more faculty to cover those classes so academics might like that. Might be the solution to those ridiculous student loans.  Take a couple of years of your online courses and then the last year or two, in person classes for when there needs to be more student interaction. Sciences that require labs would need in person work, art classes that need more instruction and feedback during the creation process, sports/dance classes and other hands on subjects wouldn’t convert easy, but history, English, math seem relatively easy. 
 

My husband teaches entrepreneurship and part of the work of a couple of classes is starting a business with your group and then presenting at the end of the semester on su bX ccess. Another is helping businesses that come in for advice. That and group work would be harder.  He is interested to see how it would go. Believes it is likely to be easier on him once he has the setup done. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

5 hours ago, PacMan said:

Doesn’t matter how many people are under the roof, be it one or ten.

No offence, but this reads like something written by someone who has lived with a family for most of his life.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, PacMan said:

What about them? Not sure I understand. Replace family with household. Doesn’t matter how many people are under the roof, be it one or ten. Same access to the ordinance. And I’d they can’t, that’s what ministering brothers are for. 

mom second thought, I think I understand what you’re asking. Family gatherings as well as friends (multiple households) are similarly not permitted. It’s home by home.

It wasn’t structured like that at BYU. Singles formed family home evening groups, usually an apt of men and an apt of women. It would make sense to me to allow small family like groups for singles if possible given community restrictions. 

[bluebell]

9 hours ago, PacMan said:

I don’t mind you asking. But as it was given in confidence I don’t feel right passing it along without permission. 

Not a problem, totally understandable. 

[PacMan]

3 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

No offence, but this reads like something written by someone who has lived with a family for most of his life.

No offense, but it doesn’t. Unless you’re obsessed with the topic or derailing threads. Now back to the topic. 

[rongo]

11 hours ago, sunstoned said:

This might become the new normal. Schools/colleges might find out that they can teach effectively online and it could become a standard option.

I think it's more likely that everyone will find out that online school is just a shadow of in-person school. We're grateful for my wife's online BYUI degree via Pathway, but she much, much preferred her associates degree through the community college. Online education is all the rage, but it's really a joke, if people are honest. Especially the mandatory "discussion board" aspects where you have to make so many posts and comment on so many posts. It's mindless checking of boxes, even through prestigious institutions. 

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

I think it's more likely that everyone will find out that online school is just a shadow of in-person school. We're grateful for my wife's online BYUI degree via Pathway, but she much, much preferred her associates degree through the community college. Online education is all the rage, but it's really a joke, if people are honest. Especially the mandatory "discussion board" aspects where you have to make so many posts and comment on so many posts. It's mindless checking of boxes, even through prestigious institutions. 

I'm loath to take issue with a professional educator, and I'm sure you have good reasons for reaching the conclusions you have, but, to me, the debate between on-line versus in-person instruction is a lot like when people say they don't get anything out of classes in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  "Okay, you say you don't get a lot out of them.  Fine.  How much are you putting into them?"  Perhaps on-line education is a joke ... for people who don't take it seriously.  Come to think of it, traditional education also is a joke ... at least, it is for people who don't take it seriously.  For all of the differences between the two modes of instruction, however, personally, I find that there is a relationship between how much I get out of a class (regardless how it is delivered) and how much I put into it.  It's nothing but a joke ... if I don't take it seriously, and if I don't put much of anything into it.  But if I do take it seriously, and if I do put an appropriate amount of effort into it, I'm likely to get much more out of it than if I don't do those things.  I'm sure you're a terrific teacher, but, surely, you know that there isn't much even you can do for an unmotivated, apathetic student.

[rongo]

5 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I'm loath to take issue with a professional educator, and I'm sure you have good reasons for reaching the conclusions you have, but, to me, the debate between on-line versus in-person instruction is a lot like when people say they don't get anything out of classes in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  "Okay, you say you don't get a lot out of them.  Fine.  How much are you putting into them?"  Perhaps on-line education is a joke ... for people who don't take it seriously.  Come to think of it, traditional education also is a joke ... at least, it is for people who don't take it seriously.  For all of the differences between the two modes of instruction, however, personally, I find that there is a relationship between how much I get out of a class (regardless how it is delivered) and how much I put into it.  It's nothing but a joke ... if I don't take it seriously, and if I don't put much of anything into it.  But if I do take it seriously, and if I do put an appropriate amount of effort into it, I'm likely to get much more out of it than if I don't do those things.  I'm sure you're a terrific teacher, but, surely, you know that there isn't much even you can do for an unmotivated, apathetic student.

It's more than just what people put into it, which is true as far as it goes. Online school has exploded at the post-secondary level because it opened up the market to more students (parents and working people), and it is cheaper because one teacher can teach hundreds or even thousands more students than in a brick-and-mortar settings. It's a cash cow for colleges, and online degrees have exploded. There is also much lower overhead, because online students don't use the facilities or resources of the school; only the online platforms (which they pay to use). While there is some rigor, they are largely diploma mills by design, even from prestigious institutions (it is logistically impossible to give the same attention to the far higher number of online students as it is for brick-and-mortar). Every online program I am aware of requires students to participate in discussion boards for the class, but the content is irrelevant --- the system itself simply checks to see if the required number of posts and responses are logged.

At the K-12 level (yes, there is kindergaten online), it's more of a joke. Far less rigor and useful feedback than post-secondary online. This has exploded for fraudulent "credit recovery" programs, where students can make up a whole year of a subject in six weeks. Schools love this because they can boost their graduation rates and lower their failure rates.  

[bluebell]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

Would cut down on tuition given less space so they could have more students, more faculty to cover those classes so academics might like that. Might be the solution to those ridiculous student loans.  Take a couple of years of your online courses and then the last year or two, in person classes for when there needs to be more student interaction. Sciences that require labs would need in person work, art classes that need more instruction and feedback during the creation process, sports/dance classes and other hands on subjects wouldn’t convert easy, but history, English, math seem relatively easy. 
 

My husband teaches entrepreneurship and part of the work of a couple of classes is starting a business with your group and then presenting at the end of the semester on su bX ccess. Another is helping businesses that come in for advice. That and group work would be harder.  He is interested to see how it would go. Believes it is likely to be easier on him once he has the setup done. 

When I got my degree in 2012 my online classes were the same cost or barely less than regular classes. It was stupid. 

[Rain]

7 hours ago, Calm said:

Would cut down on tuition given less space so they could have more students, more faculty to cover those classes so academics might like that. Might be the solution to those ridiculous student loans.  Take a couple of years of your online courses and then the last year or two, in person classes for when there needs to be more student interaction. Sciences that require labs would need in person work, art classes that need more instruction and feedback during the creation process, sports/dance classes and other hands on subjects wouldn’t convert easy, but history, English, math seem relatively easy. 
 

My husband teaches entrepreneurship and part of the work of a couple of classes is starting a business with your group and then presenting at the end of the semester on su bX ccess. Another is helping businesses that come in for advice. That and group work would be harder.  He is interested to see how it would go. Believes it is likely to be easier on him once he has the setup done. 

Maybe for some. Tuition was actually more for my husband online than it would have been in person. But maybe that is an ASU thing. It is also more for my daughter to have her major based in Phoenix even though the college was in Tempe and the majority of her classes have been in Tempe.  So who knows.

[bsjkki]

My autistic daughter did online school for middle and high school. Her online classes demanded more and were much harder. After a few years, we realized she had to go into the high school for math classes. She could not get the instruction she needed through the computer. The hybrid approach worked well for her. I found the online classes required more time. As parents, we would often have to push back on curriculum that was physically impossible to complete in the allotted time. The online reading assignments plus written assignments and projects seem to take more time than a traditional class. 

[Rain]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

I think it's more likely that everyone will find out that online school is just a shadow of in-person school. We're grateful for my wife's online BYUI degree via Pathway, but she much, much preferred her associates degree through the community college. Online education is all the rage, but it's really a joke, if people are honest. Especially the mandatory "discussion board" aspects where you have to make so many posts and comment on so many posts. It's mindless checking of boxes, even through prestigious institutions. 

This really depends on a lot of factors.

My husband is a big time introvert. He loved online grad school. My more extroverted daughter hasn't like when she has had to take online classes and is really struggling that all of her classes have gone online till the end if the semester.

We have found that the teachers make a huge difference. Some are great with making things online work. Some are not.

My husband didn't have mandatory discussion board stuff, but maybe some of that was he was doing grad work in engineering. 

In some ways my husband got more out of it online than the other students. On group projects the in class students had groups of 3-6 doing parts of the project. My husband did all of the parts of the project on his own because he had no group to work with.

The biggest problem for my daughter in online classes is it was harder for her to connect with fellow students. And this semester she has a dance class. She will be videoing she and her dad dancing for the class. 

I took an online class last fall. You could pay nothing for it or you could pay to be able to have quizzes and get "credit". I only wanted to learn so it didn't matter to me about credit, but if it did I would not have taken this class as it wasn't the substantive teaching and experience I would want for something I would want credit for.

So I think it REALLY varies in what students will get out of online. It was great for people like my husband. For others, not so much.

Edit: reading your next post it sounds like you know it varies. You are just concerned about how it is working for most.  I think for the majority of people in person is better, but I'm grateful that it is available for those where online is better.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Rain

[Hamba Tuhan]

9 hours ago, PacMan said:

Unless you’re obsessed with the topic or derailing threads. Now back to the topic. 

I thought the topic was 'home church'?

And yes, I'm deeply concerned about the impacts of social isolation on single members of the Church. My very first thought when I opened the email from Church headquarters was making sure no one slips through the cracks. Thankfully, our ward leaders share those concerns and immediately started going through the ward list to identify those who live alone, those without access to priesthood in their homes, etc. And we were all asked to engage in the same mental exercise.

My eldest sister lives alone in America. My greatest hope is that her needs are not ignored by those who are comfortable in the security of their own family lives.

ETA: I was just contacted by a counsellor in our bishopric. Mindful that ministering assignments may not reflect the current reality of who is caring for whom (or even able to!), they are creating a master list to make sure that everyone has someone meeting their needs. I'm grateful.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Hamba Tuhan

[Calm]

6 hours ago, bluebell said:

When I got my degree in 2012 my online classes were the same cost or barely less than regular classes. It was stupid. 

Schools would try and keep the costs up in many cases. I think only a huge blowback on student loans would force more realistic tuition for most.  

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Rain said:

She will be videoing she and her dad dancing for the class. 

That image is sweet. 

[PacMan]

6 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I thought the topic was 'home church'?

And yes, I'm deeply concerned about the impacts of social isolation on single members of the Church. My very first thought when I opened the email from Church headquarters was making sure no one slips through the cracks. Thankfully, our ward leaders share those concerns and immediately started going through the ward list to identify those who live alone, those without access to priesthood in their homes, etc. And we were all asked to engage in the same mental exercise.

My eldest sister lives alone in America. My greatest hope is that her needs are not ignored by those who are comfortable in the security of their own family lives.

ETA: I was just contacted by a counsellor in our bishopric. Mindful that ministering assignments may not reflect the current reality of who is caring for whom (or even able to!), they are creating a master list to make sure that everyone has someone meeting their needs. I'm grateful.

And?  What’s that have to do with my comment or what my ward is doing?

[Hamba Tuhan]

5 hours ago, PacMan said:

What’s that have to do with my comment or what my ward is doing?

You wrote that your ward is under 'a prohibition on meeting together with friends for the service. Only families'. That's great for families. It's not so great for singles.

And, epidemiologically speaking, there is zero difference between my inviting a single brother who cannot bless the sacrament into my home on Sunday and my visiting this same brother to bless the sacrament in his home. In all other ways, having him in my home on Sunday was and is a far better option.