mfbukowski Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Calm said: But isn't it the "why" you are hinting at, not the "what"? Of course. But this crowd believes there are no differences. If their interpretation is correct there would be no differences. The blessing should be "equal. " If you could show me why the blessings are not the same, independent of women being spiritually different than men, please do so. The good thing about that is that will keep us out of the woods as to using prohibited language. Please give me a reason to see it another way. I am totally open to other interpretations from people who actually know what I'm talking about. I haven't seen that yet. You know me well enough to know that when I am wrong I say so. Edited October 26, 2019 by mfbukowski
bluebell Posted October 26, 2019 Posted October 26, 2019 44 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Uh, not so Why are there massive differences there and nowhere else? What isn’t so? That a male poster said that or that the initiatory is different for men and women?
Calm Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: You know me well enough to know that when I am wrong I say so. I know you well enough to know if you think you are wrong you will say so. There is a difference. Quote But this crowd believes there are no differences. If their interpretation is correct there would be no differences. I don't think this is correct. It certainly isn't why I have been concerned in this thread about some of your posts. Edited October 27, 2019 by Calm 2
juliann Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 3 hours ago, ttribe said: Not all males, to be fair. Isn't that what certain males means? 😏
ttribe Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 25 minutes ago, juliann said: Isn't that what certain males means? 😏 Yep. You are 100% correct. I missed that word in my initial reading of your post. My apologies.
mfbukowski Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 23 minutes ago, Calm said: I know you well enough to know if you think you are wrong you will say so. There is a difference. I don't think this is correct. It certainly isn't why I have been concerned in this thread about some of your posts. Read my Siggy from a wise poster who used to post here named Calmoriah who said that religion was about inventing a language to communicate about God. And since no one has acknowledged that there is a difference in the ordinances then I am presuming that they believe they are the same.
Calm Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: And since no one has acknowledged that there is a difference in the ordinances then I am presuming that they believe they are the same. Well, we would have to figure out that is what you were talking about before feeling a need to comment on it and I for one never considered that until your last two or three posts. So in my case, that was a faulty presumption.
mfbukowski Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 33 minutes ago, bluebell said: What isn’t so? That a male poster said that or that the initiatory is different for men and women? The latter. That's the point I just made with Calm. But you I think know that. Why then are there differences and the ordinances? Why was it Eve that figured the whole thing out while Adam stayed locked and loaded in the wrong direction without stopping at the gas station to get instructions? Could it be that Eve's intelligence and spirituality was designed differently than Adam's? Why is that exchange even in the story of the Fall if there are no differences? I know that you know that "it is all figurative insofar as the man and women are concerned." If it is figurative why is Adams stumble in out the solution even there?
Calm Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) Mfb, I just did a search on differ, different, difference, and differences in this thread and there is no use of any of those in regards to temple ceremonies up until this last bit. Which would suggest I may not be the only one who wasn't having that type of conversation with you. Edited October 27, 2019 by Calm 1
bluebell Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 9 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: The latter. That's the point I just made with Calm. But you I think know that. Why then are there differences and the ordinances? Why was it Eve that figured the whole thing out while Adam stayed locked and loaded in the wrong direction without stopping at the gas station to get instructions? Could it be that Eve's intelligence and spirituality was designed differently than Adam's? Why is that exchange even in the story of the Fall if there are no differences? I know that you know that "it is all figurative insofar as the man and women are concerned." If it is figurative why is Adams stumble in out the solution even there? The initiatories are different for men and women though. It seems like you are spending a lot of time and effort arguing points that aren’t in question. Probably time to agree to disagree.
mfbukowski Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 5 minutes ago, Calm said: Well, we would have to figure out that is what you were talking about before feeling a need to comment on it and I for one never considered that until your last two or three posts. So in my case, that was a faulty presumption. Well then I apologize for that. I thought people would instantly think of the Temple when thinking about the differences between men and women and why men need a considerable amount more washing than women to get to the same level. I suppose that's why my brilliant sweetheart is always tell me I don't know how to talk to people and presume that everyone thinks the way I do. When I explain something I hit every single minor point, and have people snoozing in no time. At least on this one no one was snoozing. okay all where are the answers?
mfbukowski Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 1 minute ago, bluebell said: The initiatories are different for men and women though. It seems like you are spending a lot of time and effort arguing points that aren’t in question. Probably time to agree to disagree. About what? So far there has been nothing to disagree about in my book. WHY they are different shows us why men think different than, and about women. And isn't that the topic of the thread?
Calm Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: where are the answers? The answers to what exactly? That initiatories are different or your speculations on why? Edited October 27, 2019 by Calm
Calm Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: WHY they are different shows us why men think different than, and about women. I thought you believed religion had little to nothing to say about science. I am getting very confused here. If I am not clear here, to me studying sexual arousal patterns is science. Edited October 27, 2019 by Calm
bluebell Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 14 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: About what? So far there has been nothing to disagree about in my book. WHY they are different shows us why men think different than, and about women. And isn't that the topic of the thread? Why men think differently isn’t the topic. The topic is women’s responsibility in influencing men’s thoughts. 1
Peacefully Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 11 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: About what? So far there has been nothing to disagree about in my book. WHY they are different shows us why men think different than, and about women. And isn't that the topic of the thread? I will admit I did not know there was a difference but why didn’t you say it in plain English (not the specifics)? Instead you spoke in riddles and in a patronizing way as if you had all the answers and we weren’t enlightened or spiritual enough to know them. Also, I don’t think it is fair to use the temple ordinances to try to shut down civil discourse. But that is just me. 4
Bernard Gui Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 2 hours ago, MustardSeed said: When I said “smoking hot husband” I was being facetious, because it used to be the thing for young pastors to say about their wives. It’s not just a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints thing. My husband is, though, hands down the sexiest man I know. Cool.
Bernard Gui Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 4 hours ago, juliann said: It's demeaning. Always interesting when the offender thinks he gets to decide how much damage he did. Not your call. If someone is demeaned, you are demeaning them. You are demeaning me. Not your call to tell me you are not.
juliann Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 7 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: You are demeaning me. Not your call to tell me you are not. Waiting for the sticks and stones chant and telling me my mother wears army boots. Ladies and thinking gentlemen, can we get back to the topic and ignore these guys?
mfbukowski Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 42 minutes ago, Calm said: Mfb, I just did a search on differ, different, difference, and differences in this thread and there is no use of any of those in regards to temple ceremonies up until this last bit. Which would suggest I may not be the only one who wasn't having that type of conversation with you. No because we were discussing differences between men and women up until then. I'm using the endowment as evidence for my position.
Bernard Gui Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, Rain said: By demeaning, I wasn't talking at all about how we understand it differently. "One must listen very carefully. And then think about it a whole bunch. " It is the implication that one who doesn't feel the same hasn't listened carefully enough or thought through it enough that is demeaning. And honestly, I don't have enough trust in you that I would want to talk with you about it in the temple especially with you in the roll as teacher showing me where I was wrong. I have discussed it with my husband as equals. So have I. Not with your husband, of course. I am not your teacher. We have One, and He is not us Which, of course, is why I said this is perplexing. We have both come to our own understanding of a perplexing and profound concept. We both have honestly sought understanding. That it is different for us both and for others doesn’t make any of us right or wrong, good or evil, trustworthy or untrustworthy, teacher of student, superior or inferior. Edited October 27, 2019 by Bernard Gui 1
Bernard Gui Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 (edited) Never mind. Edited October 27, 2019 by Bernard Gui
nuclearfuels Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 On 10/24/2019 at 5:09 PM, Calm said: So your point? It is women's fault men have high sex drives? We should give out birth control pills to all women to suppress ovulation in order not to increase male sex drive? Otherwise, what does this have to the topic? My honest opinion is legalizing and then re-instituting polygamy. Or we could all take hormone-suppressing medications, not sure which of these options might end up with better results. (sarcasm)
ttribe Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 Just now, nuclearfuels said: My honest opinion is legalizing and then re-instituting polygamy. Or we could all take hormone-suppressing medications, not sure which of these options might end up with better results. (sarcasm) I hope your sarcasm applies to the polygamy quip.
Calm Posted October 27, 2019 Posted October 27, 2019 53 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: No because we were discussing differences between men and women up until then. I'm using the endowment as evidence for my position. Evidence of what position? How does the endowment show men have different sexual arousal patterns than women (they do, but that doesn't mean women don't get aroused due to visual stimuli) and therefore women are in part accountable for how men see them as sexual objects (when they do)? I am just not following how your point ties into the modesty/accountability discussion. Could you connect the dots for me, please? 3
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