Youth Protection Update

[The Nehor]

The church issued a communication about a few topics that questions were asked on.

Ministering with youth does not require two deep adults. All youth assigned to a Ministering companion that is not a parent should be approved by the child’s parent. Also, children should not spend extended time with the adult companion other then at the family’s residence and travel time. Youth should also not be assigned to minister to those with difficult family situations or ongoing issues.

It also does not apply to Bishopric interviews though the current policy of having another adult nearby is still in place and, if the person being interviewed asks, another adult of their choice can join the interview.

[Jeanne]

Adminstering with youth...how convenient.

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

.............................

Ministering with youth does not require two deep adults. All youth assigned to a Ministering companion that is not a parent should be approved by the child’s parent. Also, children should not spend extended time with the adult companion other then at the family’s residence and travel time. .........................

What is the age-range of these youth ministers -- priesthood, young women, high school? -- and obviously of the same gender?  So, can missionaries still do splits with youth of high school age?

[Stargazer]

2 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Adminstering with youth...how convenient.

In my experience with youth home teachers, most did it with their father. Although I once had a priest-age companion for a couple of years before he left on his mission. 

But what's convenient about it?

Edited September 8, 2019 by Stargazer

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

What is the age-range of these youth ministers -- priesthood, young women, high school? -- and obviously of the same gender?  So, can missionaries still do splits with youth of high school age?

14 and up for ministering assignments. 

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Adminstering with youth...how convenient.

Yep, in leadership council meetings we sit around and share grooming tips.

Your comment is.......

Sorry.

After my last Ban the mods I insisted I be fitted with a shock collar that goes off when my insults threaten to cross a certain threshold.

Edited September 8, 2019 by The Nehor

[Tacenda]

25 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yep, in leadership council meetings we sit around and share grooming tips.

Your comment is.......

Sorry.

After my last Ban the mods I insisted I be fitted with a shock collar that goes off when my insults threaten to cross a certain threshold.

Jeanne isn't that far off. The church is risking the evil people that join the church to commit these type of crimes. 

[bsjkki]

I still don’t think this is a wise policy. Two deep should be two deep. Plus, the time alone together will be travel time. That is really alone. I’ve never understood this exception. I insisted my daughter be my companion and said no to the request to put her with a woman neither of us knew well. Plus, she had just turned 14. She did not feel comfortable with ministering with someone else. Ninety-nine percent of the time, I’m sure it will be fine. 

Edited September 8, 2019 by bsjkki

[The Nehor]

16 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Jeanne isn't that far off. The church is risking the evil people that join the church to commit these type of crimes. 

I will try not to lose sleep over it.

14 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I still don’t think this is a wise policy. Two deep should be two deep. Plus, the time alone together will be travel time. That is really alone. I’ve never understood this exception. I insisted my daughter be my companion and said no to the request to put her with a women neither of us knew well. Plus, she had just turned 14. She did not feel comfortable with ministering with someone else. Ninety-nine percent of the time, I’m sure it will be fine. 

Agreed. Also, parents are the most likely abusers of children so I recommend a legally implemented two deep parenting policy at all times be implemented first as a more urgent measure. Single parents will have to give their children up to the state to be raised correctly in compliance with the policy but if it saves even one child from abuse it will be worth it.

Edited September 8, 2019 by The Nehor

[Tacenda]

15 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I will try not to lose sleep over it.

Agreed. Also, parents are the most likely abusers of children so I recommend a legally implemented two deep parenting policy at all times be implemented first as a more urgent measure. Single parents will have to give their children up to the state to be raised correctly in compliance with the policy but if it saves even one child from abuse it will be worth it.

Enough Nehor, enough! I know you care about children, what the?

The church is sadly unwise to allow the ministering with the youth! Recently a bishop was found abusing 20 students as their driver's ed teacher. Guess what, he stayed bishop even though he was being investigated for this. 

Timeline is c/p from someone on FB. 

Bishop Paul Bur**** story:

-Allegations surface first in 2012 of sexual abuse
-Bur**** is called as Bishop of the Hillsboro ward in June 2015
-2016 Bur**** arrested, charged with sex abuse (I will attain public records on this shortly) DA ultimately dropped charges and continued to investigate....Bur**** is still bishop with access to children and asking sexual questions one on one, behind closed doors.
-August 2018 Paul was put on administrative leave with the college while the investigation continued.....meanwhile with the church he is still bishop with access to children one on one and asking sexually explicit questions
-April 2019 Paul is fired from his position at the college...still bishop with access to children in one on one behind closed door situations asking sexual questions
-End of May/early June 2019 Paul is finally released as bishop.

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

The church is sadly unwise to allow the ministering with the youth! Recently a bishop was found abusing 20 students as their driver's ed teacher. Guess what, he stayed bishop even though he was being investigated for this. 

Is there evidence the Church knew prior to his being released?  If he didn't tell anyone at church about, is there a reason to assume they would know?

Edited September 8, 2019 by Calm

[Tacenda]

40 minutes ago, Calm said:

Is there evidence the Church knew prior to his being released?  If he didn't tell anyone at church about, is there a reason to assume they would know?

That's a possibility.

[Calm]

24 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That's a possibility.

If he lived in Utah, I doubt such things could be hid.  I think if my husband was fired from UVU, there are enough people in the ward and stake who are involved with UVU it would become known.

My wondering is about his wife and family if church leaders were not in the know (and if they were assuming the timeline is accurate, how in the world did they justify breaking policy, shattering it as far as I can tell). Unless they were wealthy (and community college professors don't make a lot of money), getting fired surely couldn't have been hidden from family.  I can imagine a man who did those kinds of things being willing to lie through his teeth and pretend nothing was happening....but family members too?  He could have lied about being fired to family, but I would assume as part of the investigation family members, especially his wife, would be questioned.

Edited September 8, 2019 by Calm

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Enough Nehor, enough! I know you care about children, what the?

The church is sadly unwise to allow the ministering with the youth! Recently a bishop was found abusing 20 students as their driver's ed teacher. Guess what, he stayed bishop even though he was being investigated for this. 

Timeline is c/p from someone on FB. 

Bishop Paul Bur**** story:

-Allegations surface first in 2012 of sexual abuse
-Bur**** is called as Bishop of the Hillsboro ward in June 2015
-2016 Bur**** arrested, charged with sex abuse (I will attain public records on this shortly) DA ultimately dropped charges and continued to investigate....Bur**** is still bishop with access to children and asking sexual questions one on one, behind closed doors.
-August 2018 Paul was put on administrative leave with the college while the investigation continued.....meanwhile with the church he is still bishop with access to children one on one and asking sexually explicit questions
-April 2019 Paul is fired from his position at the college...still bishop with access to children in one on one behind closed door situations asking sexual questions
-End of May/early June 2019 Paul is finally released as bishop.

 

59 minutes ago, Calm said:

Is there evidence the Church knew prior to his being released?  If he didn't tell anyone at church about, is there a reason to assume they would know?

 

18 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That's a possibility.

But as long as that gap in information is there (i.e., no one knows what the leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints knew and when sufficiently to determine how much responsibility it should shoulder for the situation) we're going to tar the Church of Jesus Christ and its leaders anyway, right?

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

 

 

But as long as that gap in information is there (i.e., no one knows what the leaders of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints knew and when sufficiently to determine how much responsibility it should shoulder for the situation) we're going to tar the Church of Jesus Christ and its leaders anyway, right?

But if true, what then. Just think in this day and age we need to be vigilant! 

[Raingirl]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Enough Nehor, enough! I know you care about children, what the?

The church is sadly unwise to allow the ministering with the youth! Recently a bishop was found abusing 20 students as their driver's ed teacher. Guess what, he stayed bishop even though he was being investigated for this. 

Timeline is c/p from someone on FB. 

Bishop Paul Bur**** story:

-Allegations surface first in 2012 of sexual abuse
-Bur**** is called as Bishop of the Hillsboro ward in June 2015
-2016 Bur**** arrested, charged with sex abuse (I will attain public records on this shortly) DA ultimately dropped charges and continued to investigate....Bur**** is still bishop with access to children and asking sexual questions one on one, behind closed doors.
-August 2018 Paul was put on administrative leave with the college while the investigation continued.....meanwhile with the church he is still bishop with access to children one on one and asking sexually explicit questions
-April 2019 Paul is fired from his position at the college...still bishop with access to children in one on one behind closed door situations asking sexual questions
-End of May/early June 2019 Paul is finally released as bishop.

Your source is a cut and paste from “someone on FB”.  You’re nothing if not consistent.  You’ll believe anything as long as it’s critical of the church. 

I lived in Hillsboro during this timeframe and still live in the area.  Every source I’ve encountered has reported that he was released from both school and church positions immediately upon discovery of the allegations by the entities involved.  And I’m not talking about church-friendly sources, either. 

[Raingirl]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Jeanne isn't that far off. The church is risking the evil people that join the church to commit these type of crimes. 

CFR that “people that join the church to commit these type of crimes”.  And please do give us the evidence that this was true in this specific case, along with all of the other specific instances that you seem to have knowledge of. 

[longview]

6 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

CFR that “people that join the church to commit these type of crimes”.  And please do give us the evidence that this was true in this specific case, along with all of the other specific instances that you seem to have knowledge of. 

I had a bishop that committed financial fraud against his clients (outside of church).  Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

[Raingirl]

8 minutes ago, longview said:

I had a bishop that committed financial fraud against his clients (outside of church).  Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

You don’t seem to have a point other than to engage in the same type of behavior as Tacenda. 

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

But if true, what then. Just think in this day and age we need to be vigilant! 

Which to you means assume the church and it’s leaders are guilty in all cases.

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Enough Nehor, enough! I know you care about children, what the?

Oh sorry, I guess we only worry about the children when it is a means to wring our hands over the evil church?

[Calm]

Quote

“Since 2018, detectives with the Washington County Sheriff’s Office Violent Crimes Unit have been investigating allegations that a drivers education instructor at Portland Community College’s (PCC) Rock Creek campus was sexually abusing his students,” the sheriff’s department statement says.

“During the investigation, detectives learned Mr. Bur**** was also the bishop of the Hillsboro Ward of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Both PCC and the LDS Church were cooperative with the investigation and took immediate steps to remove Mr. Bur**** from his positions once notified of the allegations.”

https://gephardtdaily.com/local/fformer-lds-bishop-driving-instructor-arrested-on-sexual-abuse-charges-in-oregon/

[longview]

37 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

You don’t seem to have a point other than to engage in the same type of behavior as Tacenda. 

My point is it is important to exercise some degree of care and diligence.  It is our duty to watch over the church (see D&C 20:42).

[Judd]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Enough Nehor, enough! I know you care about children, what the?

The church is sadly unwise to allow the ministering with the youth! Recently a bishop was found abusing 20 students as their driver's ed teacher. Guess what, he stayed bishop even though he was being investigated for this. 

Timeline is c/p from someone on FB. 

Bishop Paul Bur**** story:

-Allegations surface first in 2012 of sexual abuse
-Bur**** is called as Bishop of the Hillsboro ward in June 2015
-2016 Bur**** arrested, charged with sex abuse (I will attain public records on this shortly) DA ultimately dropped charges and continued to investigate....Bur**** is still bishop with access to children and asking sexual questions one on one, behind closed doors.
-August 2018 Paul was put on administrative leave with the college while the investigation continued.....meanwhile with the church he is still bishop with access to children one on one and asking sexually explicit questions
-April 2019 Paul is fired from his position at the college...still bishop with access to children in one on one behind closed door situations asking sexual questions
-End of May/early June 2019 Paul is finally released as bishop.

Teachers have a lot of exposure to children, yet very few people seem nearly as concerned about this as they are a once-yearly meeting with the bishop where someone is outside the office. Case in point being that this guy did this to apparently 20 students and we’re not phased at all to lay societal blame at the feet of an education system and their policies that facilitated it — but looking at his role as a bishop of where there have yet to be any allegations under (not to suggest that he should be in that position, or that changes can’t be made, but it’s an interesting conundrum to observe where the focus is placed).

To me, it’s somewhat similar to this meme:

Or to those afraid of exposure to one flu shot, but no qualms about fast-food and sodas every day, coupled with a sedentary lifestyle.

[Tacenda]

59 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

CFR that “people that join the church to commit these type of crimes”.  And please do give us the evidence that this was true in this specific case, along with all of the other specific instances that you seem to have knowledge of. 

My usage of "people that join the church to commit these types of crimes", wasn't well put. I'm not a great communicater at times. It's something I heard a while back that pedophiles or people with those inclinations will find that church, all faiths, is an easy way to get the victims. Surely you've heard this before? 

https://ffrf.org/faq/feeds/item/18500-the-scandal-of-pedophilia-in-the-church

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/avykzz/child-abuse-and-the-church-666

[bsjkki]

Predators (of all types) look for victims and use many means to find them. I think the youth protection measures were put in place because we can no longer be naive. I don’t understand the difference between a young men’s President and a ministering companion. Why is one deemed more safe than the other?