ALarson Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Calm said: I think that would depend on age differences. There are uncles I know who are younger than their nieces, Oh, I agree that age is a factor. But there's no getting away from the fact that the girl would be my brother's (or sister's) daughter.....even if we were the same age. For me, that's creepy and I just could not get past that. Edited March 28, 2019 by ALarson
JLHPROF Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 2 hours ago, Teancum said: What you call the commandments of God are often the artificial impositions on you from someone claiming to speak for God, but is not. That's where faith comes in.
Calm Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 17 minutes ago, ALarson said: Oh, I agree that age is a factor. But there's no getting away from the fact that the girl would be my brother's (or sister's) daughter.....even if we were the same age. For me, that's creepy and I just could not get past that. Makes sense you would feel this way in this culture. I just don't see any reason to assume our culture is the best one out there or even close to the ideal for just our type of culture (monogamous, Christian, Western heritage). I wouldn't suggest anyone go into marriage feeling creeped out, marriage is hard enough in other ways. 1
Calm Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) I am creeped out by the reality shows that play with marriage. Imagine having your relationship publicized from day one. That just seems like participating willing in voyeurism. Plus being pretty passive because you are allowing someone else to control the setting for fame or fortune. Married at First Sight, done in the US, UK, and Aus. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Married_at_First_Sight_(UK_TV_series) The Bachelor/ette I assume people are familiar with. I can't believe this stuff is spinning off imitators: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:The_Bachelor That I belong to a culture that is okay with these...ewww... The getting help with weddings is not what I would go for, but more understandable as it is not about who you will (supposedly) love. Edited March 28, 2019 by Calm 2
USU78 Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 20 minutes ago, Calm said: I am creeped out by the reality shows that play with marriage. Imagine having your relationship publicized from day one. That just seems like participating willing in voyeurism. Plus being pretty passive because you are allowing someone else to control the setting for fame or fortune. Married at First Sight, done in the US, UK, and Aus. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Married_at_First_Sight_(UK_TV_series) The Bachelor/ette I assume people are familiar with. I can't believe this stuff is spinning off imitators: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:The_Bachelor That I belong to a culture that is okay with these...ewww... The getting help with weddings is not what I would go for, but more understandable as it is not about who you will (supposedly) love. There are other, less benign fiddlings with marriage folks these days are horrified to talk about.
Storm Rider Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 5 hours ago, bluebell said: There are a lot of reasons that people might not vote. Voter intimidation, a belief that your vote won't matter anyway, not liking any of the options, no way to get to polling stations, etc. I agree. So then the question is are we controlled by others for not voting and to what degree? In First World nations, I suspect that the impact is negligible at best.
Calm Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Storm Rider said: I agree. So then the question is are we controlled by others for not voting and to what degree? In First World nations, I suspect that the impact is negligible at best. As individuals, perhaps not. As an aggregate of our demographic, definitely controlled more and have less control over our lives speaking in general in my opinion. If all white men stopped voting, I bet the impact would be large on their life in general. Found this article projecting who would win if only certain demographics voted: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-if-only-men-voted-only-women-only-nonwhite-voters/ Edited March 28, 2019 by Calm
Thinking Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 On 3/26/2019 at 11:20 AM, The Nehor said: Sometimes the hard road is the best road. Sometimes the hard road is just hard. One might find strength having traveled it, but being hard doesn't necessarily make a road the best road. 3
JLHPROF Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Thinking said: Sometimes the hard road is just hard. One might find strength having traveled it, but being hard doesn't necessarily make a road the best road. If God wants us walking down it then it's the best road. If it's self-induced misery then calling it God's will may not be being honest with ourselves. That applies as much to polygamy as to any other hard road we walk. Edited March 28, 2019 by JLHPROF 3
The Nehor Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 5 hours ago, Teancum said: What you call the commandments of God are often the artificial impositions on you from someone claiming to speak for God, but is not. Then who is beaming this revelation into my brain? Aliens? CIA?
The Nehor Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 30 minutes ago, Thinking said: Sometimes the hard road is just hard. One might find strength having traveled it, but being hard doesn't necessarily make a road the best road. True, I know several people who wallow in self-imposed misery who imagine it is their trial and is making them Holy when my uncharitable view is that all it does is show that they are dumb. Hence the need for revelation. 2
Thinking Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 57 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Hence the need for revelation. Or common sense.
Calm Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 32 minutes ago, Thinking said: Or common sense. Which usually means what we are comfortable with, imo. 3
Bernard Gui Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 On 3/26/2019 at 10:16 AM, Gray said: https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/app.20170438 For your consideration. Another fruit with which we can evaluate the moral value of polygamy. Perhaps those who are not so nice could improve through repentance.
mrmarklin Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 9 hours ago, Calm said: Apparently not illegal currently in Australia and Canada, though not common in most English speaking countries. Some other cultures it is even common according to wiki, though it doesn't list any save an Amazonian culture, so not sure if that claim is accurate. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avunculate_marriage Abraham married his niece.
mrmarklin Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 At some level the only reason I stay with the Church is hoping polygamy will come back!
The Nehor Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 8 hours ago, Thinking said: Or common sense. Rare enough that I choose not to depend on it. 1
ALarson Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 5 hours ago, mrmarklin said: Abraham married his niece. Well, if you want to go to the Bible for examples, start at the very beginning. There had to be incest involved for Adam's children to have children. Unless you have another explanation?
ALarson Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 13 hours ago, USU78 said: Creepy? Perhaps. My great-great-grandmother told my aunts, in her Lancashire accent: "Aye, I married me uncle, but he always took care of me." In her great age she didn't seem particularly creeped out by her own life. Who are you or I to tell her she was wrong and icky? I didn't. Notice the "for me" in my post. I'm glad it worked out for your great-great-grandmother and that she was taken care of by her uncle. Edited March 28, 2019 by ALarson
JLHPROF Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 4 hours ago, ALarson said: Well, if you want to go to the Bible for examples, start at the very beginning. There had to be incest involved for Adam's children to have children. Unless you have another explanation? Another explanation? Ooohh...pick me, pick me!!! 1
ALarson Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Another explanation? Ooohh...pick me, pick me!!! Oh...ok! JLHPROF (since you are one my favorite posters on this board ) Who is the physical father of the first child born to one of Adam's (and Eve's) daughters? Who is the physical mother of the first child born to one of Adam's (and Eve's) sons? Edited March 28, 2019 by ALarson
Teancum Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Lecture on Faith Six "Let us here observe, that a religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things, never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation; for from the first existence of man, the faith necessary unto the enjoyment of life and salvation never could be obtained without the sacrifice of all earthly things: it was through this sacrifice, and this only, that God has ordained that men should enjoy eternal life; and it is through the medium of the sacrifice of all earthly things, that men do actually know that they are doing the things that are well pleasing in the sight of God. When a man has offered in sacrifice all that he has, for the truth's sake, not even withholding his life, and believing before God that he has been called to make this sacrifice, because he seeks to do his will, he does know most assuredly, that God does and will accept his sacrifice and offering, and that he has not nor will not seek his face in vain. Under these circumstances, then, he can obtain the faith necessary for him to lay hold on eternal life." Yes this is a great quote that falls squarely into the mind control techniques cults use. Steven Hassan talks a lot about this one in his book that I referenced. Thank you so much for providing evidence of my points. Edited March 28, 2019 by Teancum
Teancum Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 20 hours ago, bluebell said: I don’t know. What is preparing to run the Boston Marathon, for example, but someone seeking out an artificially created hardship because they believe it will benefit them in some way. Are they idiots for seeking out that hardship? It probably depends on who you ask. As I think I noted in one of my comments, I an an endurance cyclist I understand the idea of training overload and recovery quite well. I am not sure though the idea of training for an athletic event is the same as seeking other personal challenges or imposing them intentionally on others like JS seemed to like to do.
Teancum Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 19 hours ago, pogi said: I don't consider God's will and command to be "artificially imposed hardships". I think that obedience to God's will is always for our ultimate good and growth. That is probably something that we are just going to have to agree to disagree on because I absolutely will encourage my children to obey the Lord in all things as they seek a relationship with him and heed his voice in their lives. I don't think we will agree on what is considered "normal things" in life. For me, meditation, prayer, sacrifice for the Lord, tithing, etc are "normal things" that help us grow, you will likely view many of them as "artificially imposed hardships." These disciplines may not be "normal" to the world, but I don't want what is normal for the world. I want to live in an extraordinary way and find extraordinary peace and happiness. I plan on teaching my children to meditate, to pray, to sacrifice in paying a tithing, to put God's will above their own, to love other's even when it is hard and the rest of the world might give up. I absolutely will encourage my children to pursue hardships outside of the "normal things in life (according to the world)". I want them to know what can't be known any other way. That is fine. We can agree to disagree. But the question remains about who really knows what God's will is or isn't or whether or not God is there. Lots of religious leaders claim to speak for God and thus impose God's will on others and I am sure you may question many of them. Jim Jones for example....
Teancum Posted March 28, 2019 Posted March 28, 2019 18 hours ago, JLHPROF said: That's where faith comes in. Faith is used to bridge the gap from reason and critical thinking to "just trust me...I know what God wants for you.."
Recommended Posts