rockpond Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 This should come as a surprise to... nobody: Sam Young is reading his excommunication appeal live on the Protect LDS Children Facebook page right now. https://www.facebook.com/ProtectLDSChildren/ I assume the video will be accessible after the live stream and, if his pattern holds, the text of his appeal will be posted to his blog: https://invisiblescubit.wordpress.com/
Popular Post smac97 Posted October 11, 2018 Popular Post Posted October 11, 2018 (edited) Gotta love the implied threat if his excommunication is not reversed. The Church will be "viewed with revulsion" (can't help but wonder how much of that "revulsion" will be fomented by Sam Young). People will "not respond well" when they discover "what we do to children." Are the First Presidency on "the side of the children" (as evidenced by reversing his excommunication) or on their "own side" (if they don't reverse). If the First Presidency does not reverse his excommunication, they will "look foolish." This is not the way to persuade others. I continue to be unimpressed by Sam Young's antics. Thanks, -Smac Edited October 11, 2018 by smac97 6
Avatar4321 Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 No sign of humbling or penitence. still using children to make disingenuous arguments against the Church i don’t forsee this appeal working. Of course, the Lord May surprise me. He is infinitely merciful and can do what He wishes with His Church. He is truly awesome 2
Popular Post rongo Posted October 11, 2018 Popular Post Posted October 11, 2018 if he were serious about wanting to win the appeal, he would never read his letter and stream it on Facebook. Even if it were not in a Sam Young tone. That shows me that he doesn't want his excommunication overturned. He only wants to use this as a foil for his continued performances. One value, whether one likes it or not, in excommunicating vocal internal critics is that their influence and ability to hold interest drops dramatically once the "boil is lanced." All of them think that they will be the ones to buck this trend, but it invariably and inevitably happens. I think his continued efforts to grab and hold attention are going to have increasingly diminishing returns. Even among his supporters. They will give their attention to the next one to come along; a fresh face and fresh cause. It must be really frustrating for attention-mongers once they've burned all the oxygen they're going to be able to. That must really rankle. 6
Avatar4321 Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, smac97 said: Gotta love the implied threat if his excommunication is not reversed. The Church will be "viewed with revulsion." People will "not respond well" when they discover "what we do to children." Are the First Presidency on "the side of the children" (as evidenced by reversing his excommunication) or on their "own side" (if they don't reverse). If the First Presidency does not reverse his excommunication, they will "look foolish." This is not the way to persuade others. I continue to be unimpressed by Sam Young's antics. Thanks, -Smac The Church has been viewed with revulsion by the world since the beginning. Christ has appeared foolish to those who claim to be wise
Avatar4321 Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, rongo said: if he were serious about wanting to win the appeal, he would never read his letter and stream it on Facebook. Even if it were not in a Sam Young tone. That shows me that he doesn't want his excommunication overturned. He only wants to use this as a foil for his continued performances. One value, whether one likes it or not, in excommunicating vocal internal critics is that their influence and ability to hold interest drops dramatically once the "boil is lanced." All of them think that they will be the ones to buck this trend, but it invariably and inevitably happens. I think his continued efforts to grab and hold attention are going to have increasingly diminishing returns. Even among his supporters. They will give their attention to the next one to come along; a fresh face and fresh cause. It must be really frustrating for attention-mongers once they've burned all the oxygen they're going to be able to. That must really rankle. I bet it is frustrating. But what would be even worse is not having the Holy Spirit. I don’t know how I could function without the Spirit guiding me from time to time 1
The Nehor Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 Well, I have a little sympathy here. Got to find some hobby to spend your time on before your damnation.
rockpond Posted October 11, 2018 Author Posted October 11, 2018 6 minutes ago, rongo said: One value, whether one likes it or not, in excommunicating vocal internal critics is that their influence and ability to hold interest drops dramatically once the "boil is lanced." All of them think that they will be the ones to buck this trend, but it invariably and inevitably happens. I think his continued efforts to grab and hold attention are going to have increasingly diminishing returns. Even among his supporters. They will give their attention to the next one to come along; a fresh face and fresh cause. That may be the case with most but it doesn't seem to be the case with John Dehlin... my understanding is that Mormon Stories popularity has grown since his excommunication. Sam Young has managed to grab a lot of media attention. Like most here, I see zero chance of his excommunication being overturned. But I think it will be interesting to see if he's able to even maintain momentum after this and the next media event he will inevitably hold to announce the denial of his appeal. I'm not sure where he goes next and I think the Church has already responded to his requests. 1
rongo Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, rockpond said: That may be the case with most but it doesn't seem to be the case with John Dehlin... my understanding is that Mormon Stories popularity has grown since his excommunication. Has it? That's not my impression. Sam Young has managed to grab a lot of media attention. Like most here, I see zero chance of his excommunication being overturned. But I think it will be interesting to see if he's able to even maintain momentum after this and the next media event he will inevitably hold to announce the denial of his appeal. I'm not sure where he goes next and I think the Church has already responded to his requests. Yes, it will be interesting to see. Sam Young will try his hardest to grab and maintain momentum. I predict that he will struggle with this, and based on his antics throughout that whole process, I think he will do some increasingly "Jerry Springerish" antics to try to get attention. 1
smac97 Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, rongo said: if he were serious about wanting to win the appeal, he would never read his letter and stream it on Facebook. Even if it were not in a Sam Young tone. That shows me that he doesn't want his excommunication overturned. He only wants to use this as a foil for his continued performances. Yes, he seems to be going out of his way to alienate himself from the Church. 4 minutes ago, rongo said: One value, whether one likes it or not, in excommunicating vocal internal critics is that their influence and ability to hold interest drops dramatically once the "boil is lanced." All of them think that they will be the ones to buck this trend, but it invariably and inevitably happens. I think his continued efforts to grab and hold attention are going to have increasingly diminishing returns. Even among his supporters. They will give their attention to the next one to come along; a fresh face and fresh cause. I made a similar observation here: Quote Quote Does anyone think we have heard the last of Sam Young? Not really. But media interest in him will likely wane. Look at Kate Kelly. John Dehlin. Denver Snuffer. Rock Waterman. The Calderwoods. Grant Palmer. Jeremy Runnells. We get fits and spurts of news coverage. But excommunication seems to have a deleterious effect on the ability of these folks to command public attention. Their 15 minutes of notoriety fades. Even those attempting to keep up their efforts - Dehlin, Runnells, and now probably Young - don't seem to be able to hold on to media attention. Ryan McKnight may be an anomaly, as his ongoing thievery may be sufficient to pique news/social media curiosity. Time will tell. Quote And who do you think will be there beating the drum when the next bishop/stake president is accused of sexual misconduct with a minor? Yeah, the guy that was excommunicated from the church for speaking out against abuse. And the drum-beating will get tedious. The perpetual outrage machine usually runs out of gas sooner rather than later. Sadly, I think the next phase of Sam Young's journey will be that he turns into an out-and-proud opponent (a la Kate Kelly). I hope I'm wrong. Again, time will tell. 4 minutes ago, rongo said: It must be really frustrating for attention-mongers once they've burned all the oxygen they're going to be able to. That must really rankle. I can't help but think of Cindy Sheehan, the political activist who enjoyed a stint in the media and public spotlight for her theatrics aimed against specific politicians (the Bush II Administration). Bush's political opponents expressed all sorts of solidarity with and support for Ms. Sheehan, but only while she was in the spotlight, and only while she was a useful tool against Bush. But once the spotlight shifted away from her, her notoriety plummeted and she now has no appreciable voice or influence on any of the issues which are seemingly so important to her. Sonja Johnson is another example of such flash-in-the-pan activism against the Church. So are Margaret Toscano, Lavina Fielding Anderson, Lynne Whitesides, and Deborah Laake. While I concede that it is possible for an excommunicated person to do damage to the Church, such damage does not appear to be longlasting. There are individual and anecdotal exceptions, of course. A married couple of my somewhat faint acquaintance left the Church based on Grant Palmer's book. And more recently we are seeing some resignations as a show of "solidarity" with Sam Young, so it would seem he gets to count those scalps. But overall the work of the Lord is moving forward, and excommunicated persons end up where they put themselves: on the wayside. They can re-join the Church, of course. Maxine Hanks did. Avraham Gileadi did, too. I hope Sam Young has a change of heart. Thanks, -Smac 2
Jeanne Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 I have never heard of anyone appealing before..so this is interesting anyway. It is his right. I wish him well and though others may not see it...I see him as a champion for the children. 3
Storm Rider Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 In this day and age, it is evident that some individuals will do anything to obtain their five minutes of fame. Now you see 'em and now you don't. I never saw him and still not interested in hearing about him. 1
HappyJackWagon Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: In this day and age, it is evident that some individuals will do anything to obtain their five minutes of fame. Now you see 'em and now you don't. I never saw him and still not interested in hearing about him. Yet here you are commenting about him 2
rongo Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 1 minute ago, HappyJackWagon said: Yet here you are commenting about him It's a specialized niche market. He's discussion-worthy in the world of Mormon-themed message boards, but this will be less and less true, I think. And it's not true at all outside of this niche. 1
Avatar4321 Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, smac97 said: Yes, he seems to be going out of his way to alienate himself from the Church. I made a similar observation here: Sadly, I think the next phase of Sam Young's journey will be that he turns into an out-and-proud opponent (a la Kate Kelly). I hope I'm wrong. Again, time will tell. I can't help but think of Cindy Sheehan, the political activist who enjoyed a stint in the media and public spotlight for her theatrics aimed against specific politicians (the Bush II Administration). Bush's political opponents expressed all sorts of solidarity with and support for Ms. Sheehan, but only while she was in the spotlight, and only while she was a useful tool against Bush. But once the spotlight shifted away from her, her notoriety plummeted and she now has no appreciable voice or influence on any of the issues which are seemingly so important to her. Sonja Johnson is another example of such flash-in-the-pan activism against the Church. So are Margaret Toscano, Lavina Fielding Anderson, Lynne Whitesides, and Deborah Laake. While I concede that it is possible for an excommunicated person to do damage to the Church, such damage does not appear to be longlasting. There are individual and anecdotal exceptions, of course. A married couple of my somewhat faint acquaintance left the Church based on Grant Palmer's book. And more recently we are seeing some resignations as a show of "solidarity" with Sam Young, so it would seem he gets to count those scalps. But overall the work of the Lord is moving forward, and excommunicated persons end up where they put themselves: on the wayside. They can re-join the Church, of course. Maxine Hanks did. Avraham Gileadi did, too. I hope Sam Young has a change of heart. Thanks, -Smac I think you are describing Mormon’s observation in Alma 30:60
LoudmouthMormon Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 5 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: Yet here you are commenting about him We're not really talking about him or his claims, we're commenting on his slow slide into obscurity. 1
The Nehor Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: Yet here you are commenting about him I am always willing to give people their fifteen minutes of scorn.
provoman Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, rockpond said: This should come as a surprise to... nobody: Sam Young is reading his excommunication appeal live on the Protect LDS Children Facebook page right now. https://www.facebook.com/ProtectLDSChildren/ I assume the video will be accessible after the live stream and, if his pattern holds, the text of his appeal will be posted to his blog: https://invisiblescubit.wordpress.com/ Does he address the Charges of his excommunication? On reddit he did not deny Charge 1, so he admits guilt of Charge 1. He denied Charge 2 but he did not offer an explantion. Most recently he thanked his SP for his excommunication. So did he address the Charges against him? What he posted on his blog about his statement during the DC, he did not appear to address the Charges.
provoman Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 @smac97 "Sadly, I think the next phase of Sam Young's journey will be that he turns into an out-and-proud opponent (a la Kate Kelly). I hope I'm wrong. Again, time will tell" His next phase/venue is political, he posted that on reddit. I suspect he is going to attempt legislation or pressure on legislature to make one on one interviews illegal; or something similar. I do not doubt that he thinks Texas law is on his side, as he posted about Texas law and child abuse being acts/communications that are mentally or emotionally harmful or something to that affect 2
JAHS Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 34 minutes ago, Jeanne said: I have never heard of anyone appealing before..so this is interesting anyway. It is his right. I wish him well and though others may not see it...I see him as a champion for the children. He is claiming that he is doing it solely to protect his stake president so that he won't ultimately be blamed for excommunicating him. He wants all the blame to be placed on church leaders. What a nice guy. 🙄
HappyJackWagon Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 28 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said: We're not really talking about him or his claims, we're commenting on his slow slide into obscurity. Nah. Stormrider said... Quote In this day and age, it is evident that some individuals will do anything to obtain their five minutes of fame. Now you see 'em and now you don't. I never saw him and still not interested in hearing about him. Sounds to me like he's saying how he has no interest in "him" (Sam Young) yet is commenting directly about "him" (Sam Young). But nice try
Scott Lloyd Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 1 hour ago, rongo said: if he were serious about wanting to win the appeal, he would never read his letter and stream it on Facebook. Even if it were not in a Sam Young tone. That shows me that he doesn't want his excommunication overturned. He only wants to use this as a foil for his continued performances. One value, whether one likes it or not, in excommunicating vocal internal critics is that their influence and ability to hold interest drops dramatically once the "boil is lanced." All of them think that they will be the ones to buck this trend, but it invariably and inevitably happens. I think his continued efforts to grab and hold attention are going to have increasingly diminishing returns. Even among his supporters. They will give their attention to the next one to come along; a fresh face and fresh cause. It must be really frustrating for attention-mongers once they've burned all the oxygen they're going to be able to. That must really rankle. This is true. Can anyone think of a single antagonist who retained his place in the limelight once his excommunication was accomplished?
smac97 Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: This is true. Can anyone think of a single antagonist who retained his place in the limelight once his excommunication was accomplished? John Dehlin?
Scott Lloyd Posted October 11, 2018 Posted October 11, 2018 3 minutes ago, smac97 said: John Dehlin? I could be wrong in my perception, but it appears to me he doesn’t command the public attention he once did. 1
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