Excommunication Appeal for Sam Young - Protect LDS Children

[rockpond]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

Has it? That's not my impression. 

Judging by revenue... MormonStories has had very strong growth.  Finances are available on the Open Stories Foundation site.

I've heard that total downloads are up as well but I don't know how to get that data.

[rockpond]

55 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

We're not really talking about him or his claims, we're commenting on his slow slide into obscurity. 

I think a "slide into obscurity" is probably just beginning... not sure if it will be slow or fast.  His story got picked up by national news outlets just a few weeks ago.  We'll see how this appeal process goes.  I would guess that the media has probably lost interest now.

[smac97]

20 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I could be wrong in my perception, but it appears to me he doesn’t command the public attention he once did. 

Not in the news media.  I would be interested to see if his podcast has gone up in popularity since his excommunication.

Thanks,

-Smac

[rongo]

15 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Judging by revenue... MormonStories has had very strong growth.  Finances are available on the Open Stories Foundation site.

I've heard that total downloads are up as well but I don't know how to get that data.

How much revenue does MormonStories pull in? How does this compare to past years?

I honestly have no idea.

[changed]

Church Joins Community Leaders in Call to Prevent Child Abuse

“Child abuse and neglect — it’s so much bigger than people know,” said Pamela Atkinson, a board member with Utah Faith Leaders Roundtable on Child Abuse Prevention...

Thank you Sam for bringing awareness.

Edited October 11, 2018 by changed

[rockpond]

8 minutes ago, rongo said:

How much revenue does MormonStories pull in? How does this compare to past years?

I honestly have no idea.

I looked before responding to the previous post.  You can go through the finances on the Open Stories Foundation website.  He was somewhere under $200k per year before his excommunication.  I think that 2017 was over $450k in gross revs.

 

Edited October 11, 2018 by rockpond

[The Nehor]

I love awareness campaigns.

https://www.theonion.com/u-s-launches-aids-awareness-campaign-in-botswana-you-1819568037

[rockpond]

10 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Not in the news media.  I would be interested to see if his podcast has gone up in popularity since his excommunication.

Thanks,

-Smac

I don't know how to get data to judge popularity.  Presumably total downloads but I'm not sure how to access that.  As I mentioned before... his revenues are up.  So, more money is being donated and more people are paying to go to his seminars.  You'll have to decide if that means an increase in popularity.

[Scott Lloyd]

14 hours ago, rockpond said:

I don't know how to get data to judge popularity.  Presumably total downloads but I'm not sure how to access that.  As I mentioned before... his revenues are up.  So, more money is being donated and more people are paying to go to his seminars.  You'll have to decide if that means an increase in popularity.

For people like Dehlin — and, to some degree, Runnels — this is a cottage industry. When your livelihood depends on it, you’re apt to do some rather aggressive marketing. I’m thinking that is a substantial factor. 

All things considered, would Dehlin and Runnels be more prosperous today had they not been excommunicated? I guess we’ll never know. 

Edited October 12, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[smac97]

29 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

For people like Dehlin — and, to some degree, Runnels — this is a cottage industry. When your livelihood depends on it, you’re apt to do some rather aggressive marketing. I’m thinking that is a substantial factor. 

All things considered, would Dehlin and Runnels be prospering as much today had they not been excommunicated? I guess we’ll never know. 

Has Runnells been successful in monetizing his "CES Letter?"  I have some doubts about that.  Dehlin has produced huge amounts of content, whereas Runnells is a one-trick pony.

He hasn't posted any updates to his website since December 2017.  

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited October 11, 2018 by smac97

[Abulafia]

Scott, "Believer" [ the documentary spearheaded by the lead singer of Imagine Dragons that culminated in the Love Loud Concert], has just been shown on the BBC here in the UK. John Dehlin featured, as did the lead singer of Neon Trees.  He just got a big audience which includes 1000s of non-members.

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

Has Runnells been successful in monetizing his "CES Letter?"  I have some doubts about that.  Dehlin has produced huge amounts of content, whereas Runnells is a one-trick pony.

He hasn't posted any updates to his website since December 2017.  

Thanks,

-Smac

I had understood Runnels had made his “Letter to a CES Director” into a for-profit enterprise. How much of a cash cow it has been for him I can’t say. And if it had been running out of steam since the end of last year, I can only say it couldn’t happen to a more deserving entrepreneur. 

[SouthernMo]

5 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

The Church has been viewed with revulsion by the world since the beginning.

 

I don’t see this as strongly as you do. I am pleased by how many people I meet respect the LDS tradition.

I had a co-worker tell me just this week that if she weren’t evangelical, she’s be Mormon.

[SouthernMo]

5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Well, I have a little sympathy here. Got to find some hobby to spend your time on before your damnation.

Maybe we suggest Macramé as a more productive hobby.

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, rongo said:

How much revenue does MormonStories pull in? How does this compare to past years?

I honestly have no idea.

Good question, I checked MS's website and didn't see a place to read about it, just a place to donate. Which is too bad, for sure, since John said they don't hide it. Hopefully someone on here will give a link or something. ETA: Just noticed Rockpond's post. Here is the link: https://www.openstoriesfoundation.org/finances/

Edited October 11, 2018 by Tacenda

[smac97]

8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Good question, I checked MS's website and didn't see a place to read about it, just a place to donate. Which is too bad, for sure, since John said they don't hide it. Hopefully someone on here will give a link or something. 

Hmm.  It seems like John Dehlin is a "transparency for thee, but not for me" kind of guy.  See here:

https://dearjohndehlin.wordpress.com/

https://medium.com/@ryanmcknight_61338/the-rift-that-could-tear-apart-the-post-mormon-community-7c9c26bba3ec

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited October 11, 2018 by smac97

[cinepro]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I love awareness campaigns.

https://www.theonion.com/u-s-launches-aids-awareness-campaign-in-botswana-you-1819568037

From the Sugar Beet:

Quote

California Ward Handles Publicity for New Porn Shop
By Arnold Loveridge

CARMICHAEL, CA—In a show of neighborliness and community fairness, the Carmichael Third Ward has agreed to help publicize the newly opened Sex-R-Us shop on Fair Oaks Drive.

Remodeling the new store had left owners Josh and Nat Steinmetz in a bit of a cash crunch. “We sort of cut things a little close,” Josh told this reporter. “With all the building permits, construction costs, and political payoffs, we probably would have had to close almost before we opened, if it hadn’t been for the goodwill of the Church. We just don’t know how to thank them enough.”

 

[rongo]

57 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Hmm.  It seems like John Dehlin is a "transparency for thee, but not for me" kind of guy.  See here:

https://dearjohndehlin.wordpress.com/

https://medium.com/@ryanmcknight_61338/the-rift-that-could-tear-apart-the-post-mormon-community-7c9c26bba3ec

Hmmm. When thieves fall out, huh?

Sounds like Dehlin has a lot of revenue, a lot of expenses, and a lot of unanswered questions as to how he is paying himself and others. Gotta love the Schadenfreude when those criticizing Church transparency find that that sword cuts both ways. 

[Calm]

Quote

Avraham Gileadi did, too.

Gileadi doesn't really belong in the same category, imo.

Quote

In September 1993, Gileadi was disciplined by the LDS Church and excommunicated along with five others, a group known as the September Six. However, the church afterwards with oversight by Neal A. Maxwell, reversed its disciplinary action against him and he was rebaptized into the church in 1996, later telling the Salt Lake Tribune: "In my case — not a single charge was true or supported by evidence — and all mention of it was expunged from the church's records."[8][9]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avraham_Gileadi

Edited October 12, 2018 by Calm

[Scott Lloyd]

12 hours ago, Abulafia said:

Scott, "Believer" [ the documentary spearheaded by the lead singer of Imagine Dragons that culminated in the Love Loud Concert], has just been shown on the BBC here in the UK. John Dehlin featured, as did the lead singer of Neon Trees.  He just got a big audience which includes 1000s of non-members.

Old news. 

I’ve been paying attention to pop music off and on for more than 50 years. Except for a relative few that achieve lasting status across generations, bands and individual artists come and go with dizzying rapidity. A fickle public uses them up and discards them with regularity. I suspect Neon Trees with all of their hangers-on will have been largely forgotten by the end of the next decade. 

[Abulafia]

13 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Old news. 

I’ve been paying attention to pop music off and on for more than 50 years. Except for a relative few that achieve lasting status across generations, bands and individual artists come and go with dizzying rapidity. A fickle public uses them up and discards them with regularity. I suspect Neon Trees with all of their hangers-on will have been largely forgotten by the end of the next decade. 

No. You are seeing things from a Utah centric perspective imho. Believer was just shown here in the UK, so for us, this issue is new news and it's new news that reaches a wide non member audience.  

[HappyJackWagon]

14 hours ago, rongo said:

Hmmm. When thieves fall out, huh?

Sounds like Dehlin has a lot of revenue, a lot of expenses, and a lot of unanswered questions as to how he is paying himself and others. Gotta love the Schadenfreude when those criticizing Church transparency find that that sword cuts both ways. 

Of course transparency cuts both ways. Transparency doesn't create perfection, only accountability. I've got no problem holding Dehlin accountable if he misuses funds or whatever the accusation du jour may be. At least the information is out there and he can be accountable for his action. The church does NOT make information available and is totally unaccountable to the people who donate. I suspect the church isn't perfect, just as Mormon Stories isn't perfect. The difference is, one is accountable and the other is not.

[The Nehor]

5 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Of course transparency cuts both ways. Transparency doesn't create perfection, only accountability. I've got no problem holding Dehlin accountable if he misuses funds or whatever the accusation du jour may be. At least the information is out there and he can be accountable for his action. The church does NOT make information available and is totally unaccountable to the people who donate. I suspect the church isn't perfect, just as Mormon Stories isn't perfect. The difference is, one is accountable and the other is not.

Yes, he is a fool.

(Evil Laugh)

[smac97]

15 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Of course transparency cuts both ways.

Well, no, it doesn't.

Is Ryan McKnight encouraging people close to John Dehlin to steal his financial information and surreptitiously send it to Mr. McKnight, with the intended purpose of publishing it to the world?

Kidgloves go on when Mr. McKnight is addressing the purported lack of sufficient transparency from his fellow critic, but the gloves come off and thievery is the order of the day when addressing the purported lack of sufficient transparency from the Church.

One standard for the Church, another for Mr. McKnight's compatriots.  Convenient, that.

15 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Transparency doesn't create perfection, only accountability.

And the accountability for Mr. Dehlin appears to be . . . lacking.  And yet Mr. McKnight is not encouraging people associated with Mr. Dehlin to steal from Mr. Dehlin and send the stolen materials to Mr. McKnight.

A brave crusader, this Mr. McKnight.

15 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I've got no problem holding Dehlin accountable if he misuses funds or whatever the accusation du jour may be. At least the information is out there and he can be accountable for his action.

Except the information isn't "out there," and Mr. Dehlin isn't being held "accountable."

And yet Mr. McKnight is approaching him in conciliatory, can't-we-all-get-along tones, and is not encouraging Mr. Dehlin's trusted associates to steal from Mr. Dehlin and send the stolen materials to Mr. McKnight for publication to the world.

Curious.

15 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

The church does NOT make information available and is totally unaccountable to the people who donate.

We have annual reports.  We have the Council on the Disposition of Tithes, the Budget Committee, the Appropriations Committee, the Church Budget Office, the Finance and Records Department, the Auditing Department, the Audit Committee, the Investment Policy Committee, the Deseret Management Corporation and its board of directors, the First Presidency of the Church, the quorum of twelve apostles, and the Presiding Bishopric, "other boards and committees to oversee the management of the Church's investments and reserves," and on and on.

Moreover, we have a robust missionary program.  And meetinghouses.  And temples.  And educational and humanitarian efforts.  And Fast Offerings.  And so on.

We also have a generalized knowledge that the General Authorities live very moderate lifestyles, particularly given the huge amounts of money to which they have access.  They aren't in it for the money.

We also have tens of thousands of bishops and stake presidents and other local leaders who work for free.

We also have periodic assurances from the leaders of the Church that it "has been living within its means."

It is false to say that the Church is "totally unaccountable to the people who donate."

15 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I suspect the church isn't perfect, just as Mormon Stories isn't perfect. The difference is, one is accountable and the other is not.

Mr. Dehlin is not being held accountable.

Mr. McKnight is not encouraging Mr. Dehlin's associates to steal from Mr. Dehlin so as to coerce Mr. Dehlin into "accountability."

Thanks,

-Smac

[provoman]

6 hours ago, Abulafia said:

No. You are seeing things from a Utah centric perspective imho. Believer was just shown here in the UK, so for us, this issue is new news and it's new news that reaches a wide non member audience.  

Here is my issue with his appearance in Believer, I do not recall whether or not he stated he was licensed - it is my understanding that he does not have license for counseling/psychology, though he does have Ph.D. Additionally without reference to studies or scientific evidence he attributes the rise in youth suicide in Utah to anti-lgbt messages.