1 Hour with the 1st Presidency

[smac97]

1 hour ago, SouthernMo said:

This is great to hear.  I’ve been in similar meetings.

I hope that the bishops were as respectfully candid as possible.  Questions like “How can we be better ministers?” Might not communicate the challenges bishops face as clearly as other messages to Elder Andersen.

Yes, I understand that the bishops were fairly candid.  Respectful, but candid.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Guest]

3 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

Some of us who participate in this forum would like to see some change in the church. Sometimes it’s culture, sometimes it’s policy/procedural.

If you had one hour with the entire first presidency, what would you suggest to them?  What improvements/solutions would you offer?  Extra points for those who are more clear, productive, and avoid general complaining... 😁

I have met two personally, and a number of Apostles, you know, hello, how are, having a good day, that kind of stuff. The longest time was with President Hunter in the same room for 20-25 mins, my family and one other. But if I had an hour, I would use it all up visiting with and discussing the things of the early Church with the Prophet Joseph Smith. Or use that hour meeting in the upper room of the Temple on the first Thursday of any month, their F&T meeting, and just be a fly on the wall, if even a fly could get it.    

[Duncan]

Just now, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I have met two personally, and a number of Apostles, you know, hello, how are, having a good day, that kind of stuff. The longest time was with President Hunter in the same room for 20-25 mins, my family and one other. But if I had an hour, I would use it all up visiting with and discussing the things of the early Church with the Prophet Joseph Smith. Or use that hour meeting in the upper room of the Temple on the first Thursday of any month, their F&T meeting, and just be a fly on the wall, if even a fly could get it.    

I talked for 5 minutes with a General Authority, who is still serving, for some unknown reason he came here. Anyways, he smelled of cologne holeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, I reaked like him for a day or two afterwards!!! 

[Calm]

I don’t see what the big deal is with sharing personal experiences, needs, and desires for change if in a personal interview situation. If the leadership conducts surveys and has reports as we have seen, then it would just be another way of sharing information that they are asking people to gather. 

I don’t think the Lord is telling them not to listen and if so, then people need to be willfully to give them something to listen to. 

Add-on:  I assume they are not out of touch because in part when they have one on one's or other meetings, they ask questions sincerely and listen.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Calm

[Scott Lloyd]

4 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

Some of us who participate in this forum would like to see some change in the church. Sometimes it’s culture, sometimes it’s policy/procedural.

If you had one hour with the entire first presidency, what would you suggest to them?  What improvements/solutions would you offer?  Extra points for those who are more clear, productive, and avoid general complaining... 😁

An entire thread devoted to ark-steadying. Fasten your seatbelts.

[Bernard Gui]

8 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

They need to get out more. I realize that this is difficult, given their duties. 

But from a distance it seems they evaluate the problems of the entire church through the prism of living in and largely being from Utah. 

Hopefully, the new apostles can help with perspective. 

In April, President Nelson visited 8 cities on three continents. Not bad for a 91-Year-old man. And there’s this....

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2018/05-se/president-russell-m-nelson-guided-prepared-committed?lang=eng

Quote

Since becoming an Apostle, and as President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles since 2015, President Nelson has continued to travel the world—sharing the words of eternal life and changing hearts. One of his first assignments was to open the doors of the Eastern European nations to the gospel. “In … five years, I had 27 trips to 31 nations in Europe,” President Nelson said. “Before President [Ezra Taft] Benson died, … I [was] able to report to him that we have completed our assignment: we now have the Church established in every country of Eastern Europe.”

President Nelson has also dedicated 27 countries for the preaching of the gospel, including Bulgaria, Croatia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, French Polynesia, Kazakhstan, and Russia. Once, in the span of four days, he dedicated six separate nations. In his apostolic ministry he has now visited 133 countries.

The past few editions of the Church News have included the travel itineraries of the members of the Quorum of the Twelve. Grueling would be an understatement. Plus the travels of the Seventies and other area authorities....our daughter Bellalindissima ‘s stake in Arkansas has been visited by 4 general authorities since May. I think the Brethren keep up to date on what is happening in the world-wide fairly well.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

6 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Honestly I'd like to know why polygamy isn't lobbied for and is lobbied against so vehemently; if it's legalized by SCOTUS and Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, Solomon, Joseph, Brigham, etc. practiced it and since the demographics of most countries are crumbling, why not?

I almost asked President Nelson this in a stake conference 2 years ago but didn't want to be banished by my stake leaders. 

I'm also interested in LDS K-12 schools

Jacob 2:30.

[SouthernMo]

8 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

An entire thread devoted to ark-steadying. Fasten your seatbelts.

I’ve heard this analogy a number of times. It has some merit - truly.

But, to continue the analogy, is there a difference between someone telling the priests they see a problem with the ark, and an individual putting his hands on the ark?

[CV75]

14 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

Some of us who participate in this forum would like to see some change in the church. Sometimes it’s culture, sometimes it’s policy/procedural.

If you had one hour with the entire first presidency, what would you suggest to them?  What improvements/solutions would you offer?  Extra points for those who are more clear, productive, and avoid general complaining... 😁

I would suggest they keep up the good work, and use the rest of the hour to tend to anyone else that might need their attention more than me.

[rongo]

13 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

An entire thread devoted to ark-steadying. Fasten your seatbelts.

It's just a discussion thread on a discussion board. And a hypothetical one at that. 

If this took the form of a manifesto, a march on the SL Temple, or a "hunger strike," I would be right with you. But it is an interesting question to think and talk about: if the FP were seeking your personal input, what would you say?

[Maestrophil]

In my couple of meetings with President Nelson (3 total) - I only really had 'thank you' to say.  🙂

 

 

[Avatar4321]

I don’t presume to have anything to tell the first presidency.

i would ask them how I can serve the Lord better and listen

[hope_for_things]

18 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

Some of us who participate in this forum would like to see some change in the church. Sometimes it’s culture, sometimes it’s policy/procedural.

If you had one hour with the entire first presidency, what would you suggest to them?  What improvements/solutions would you offer?  Extra points for those who are more clear, productive, and avoid general complaining... 😁

1. Get a revelation on LGBTQ+ and on women in the church.  They need to be treated with the dignity they deserve, priesthood for all, monogamy and fidelity is the sexual ethic to emphasize, and kick polygamy doctrines to the curb, it was a mistake, and fix all of this mess.  

2. Prioritize the resources of the church towards charity and doing good in the world.  Pull back on the scale of temple building, pivot away from missionary evangelizing and pivot toward service missions, and helping the poor everywhere.  

3. Show leadership in our theology.  Emphasize unique doctrines in a 21st century context.  All have the spark of divinity within, we can become more like Christ through emulating the qualities of divinity through serving others in the here and now.  If our focus is on the coming afterlife, then we are missing the mark now.  Feed his sheep, literally with food, and emotionally and spiritually with service and understanding.  All are alike unto God, make these words real through actions, and ditch all the folk lore, racism, sexism, exclusivism, and judgmentalism so prevalent in the culture.  Make Mormonism the inclusive religion that it can be.  

[Avatar4321]

9 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

In April, President Nelson visited 8 cities on three continents. Not bad for a 91-Year-old man. And there’s this....

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2018/05-se/president-russell-m-nelson-guided-prepared-committed?lang=eng

The past few editions of the Church News have included the travel itineraries of the members of the Quorum of the Twelve. Grueling would be an understatement. Plus the travels of the Seventies and other area authorities....our daughter Bellalindissima ‘s stake in Arkansas has been visited by 4 general authorities since May. I think the Brethren keep up to date on what is happening in the world-wide fairly well.

It’s always puzzled me how some presume they have no clue what’s going on in the Church.

i have likewise been puzzled why people presume that BYU is in a bubble because members keep the commandments. I remember the media being shocked during the olympics to realize that here were people from all over the world speaking hundreds of languages.

i guess the darkness doesn’t understand the light

[cinepro]

19 hours ago, SouthernMo said:

If you had one hour with the entire first presidency, what would you suggest to them?  What improvements/solutions would you offer?  Extra points for those who are more clear, productive, and avoid general complaining... 😁

I would spend a lot of time preparing by finding the best book I could think of, and maybe bringing some music to listen to. 

Because I know there is absolutely nothing I could suggest to them that would make a bit of difference, so I would use that precious hour to read something really good. 

And while I try and avoid "personality" issues in criticizing the leaders, I can honestly say that if I had to make a list of people in Church leadership I'd be interested in spending an hour with, the only person in the First Presidency that would make the list is President Eyring.  I would be more interested in talking with President Nelson about his experiences as a surgeon than anything having to do with the Church.  But not for an hour.

Now, if we change the situation and I'm given an hour with them and I have Wonder Woman's Lasso of Truth on all three of them, now we're talking...*

*But now we're in a universe where Wonder Woman is real, and I know her well enough to get her Lasso of Truth, so yeah, still not spending an hour with the First Presidency.

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by cinepro

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

It's just a discussion thread on a discussion board. And a hypothetical one at that. 

If this took the form of a manifesto, a march on the SL Temple, or a "hunger strike," I would be right with you. But it is an interesting question to think and talk about: if the FP were seeking your personal input, what would you say?

I'd call it an invitation for public murmuring.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[SouthernMo]

35 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

i guess the darkness doesn’t understand the light

In your analogy, who is the darkness, and who is the light?  Anyone in between?

[Jeanne]

I don't want to talk to them.  I asked many times if it would be possible.  So...I guess there is nothing else to say to someone they never knew and turned away. 

[cinepro]

15 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

An entire thread devoted to ark-steadying. Fasten your seatbelts.

Just a reminder that we are calling it the "Ark of the Covenant" now, the name given by scripture. 

After the first reference, you may refer to it as "The Ark of God", "Ark of Testimony", or "The Mobile Vanguard of Zion."

[SouthernMo]

I am by no means definitively saying that the Q15 are less-informed than they need to be, but my belief that they are is not strengthened by data or anecdotes that illustrate how many countries that they visit in short periods of time.  "“In … five years, I had 27 trips to 31 nations in Europe...”

Visiting a country does a lot more than not visiting, but just because one spends a couple of days in-country does not mean that he understands the local challenges and opportunities.

It annoys me that I have to be so clear that I'm not being critical, but I feel like I must, lest some here condemn me for not lauding our dear leader.  Again, the LDS leaders may be very well informed, but just because President Nelson visited 8 cities on three continents in April does not mean that he understands the issues in those cities as well as the population who live there, and that he needs no more input from the locals.

[Duncan]

Just now, SouthernMo said:

I am by no means definitively saying that the Q15 are less-informed than they need to be, but my belief that they are is not strengthened by data or anecdotes that illustrate how many countries that they visit in short periods of time.  "“In … five years, I had 27 trips to 31 nations in Europe...”

Visiting a country does a lot more than not visiting, but just because one spends a couple of days in-country does not mean that he understands the local challenges and opportunities.

It annoys me that I have to be so clear that I'm not being critical, but I feel like I must, lest some here condemn me for not lauding our dear leader.  Again, the LDS leaders may be very well informed, but just because President Nelson visited 8 cities on three continents in April does not mean that he understands the issues in those cities as well as the population who live there, and that he needs no more input from the locals.

they have Area Presidencies and Mission President Seminars and stake conferences, where they meet with (in person or electronically) people who are on the ground and they glean information from them. I remember Pres. Monson saying, "get the facts before the facts get you"

[rongo]

21 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

I am by no means definitively saying that the Q15 are less-informed than they need to be, but my belief that they are is not strengthened by data or anecdotes that illustrate how many countries that they visit in short periods of time.  "“In … five years, I had 27 trips to 31 nations in Europe...”

Visiting a country does a lot more than not visiting, but just because one spends a couple of days in-country does not mean that he understands the local challenges and opportunities.

It annoys me that I have to be so clear that I'm not being critical, but I feel like I must, lest some here condemn me for not lauding our dear leader.  Again, the LDS leaders may be very well informed, but just because President Nelson visited 8 cities on three continents in April does not mean that he understands the issues in those cities as well as the population who live there, and that he needs no more input from the locals.

Aaaaannnnnddddd . . .

The nature of these visits is almost always conducting a) mission tours, b) stake conferences (including leadership meetings), c) regional conferences, d) dedications, and the like. They may shake hands with general membership, but more often than not, they don't. They have additional meetings with limited groups of people (stake presidencies, sometimes bishops, etc.). People see them give a talk, or maybe two or three (depending on their callings and what extra meetings they have with them). But it's not like the visits they do to areas every weekend constitute a major pulse-taking and experiencing of what it's like for "the people in the pews." 

My wife and I were talking about this this week. Whether the Come Follow Me, etc. (and similar curriculum and class changes) are 100% top-down, or to an extent Church Office bureaucracy driven and Brethren approved and adopted --- regardless of which, the Brethren themselves don't participate in these lessons and meetings. Given their schedules and itineraries, by definition they aren't in Sunday School and normal week priesthood/Relief Society (or primary or young women's). Some of them haven't been regularly attending these meetings for many, many years now. So when there are systemic issues themselves (crushing boredom due to curricular and class changes, etc.), they are pretty shielded from experiencing them firsthand. And have been for some time. 

Edited August 27, 2018 by rongo

[hope_for_things]

22 minutes ago, cinepro said:

Just a reminder that we are calling it the "Ark of the Covenant" now, the name given by scripture. 

After the first reference, you may refer to it as "The Ark of God", "Ark of Testimony", or "The Mobile Vanguard of Zion."

With all those waves during the flood, I'm sure Noah's Ark needed some steadying.  

Edited August 27, 2018 by hope_for_things

[hope_for_things]

21 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

I am by no means definitively saying that the Q15 are less-informed than they need to be, but my belief that they are is not strengthened by data or anecdotes that illustrate how many countries that they visit in short periods of time.  "“In … five years, I had 27 trips to 31 nations in Europe...”

Visiting a country does a lot more than not visiting, but just because one spends a couple of days in-country does not mean that he understands the local challenges and opportunities.

It annoys me that I have to be so clear that I'm not being critical, but I feel like I must, lest some here condemn me for not lauding our dear leader.  Again, the LDS leaders may be very well informed, but just because President Nelson visited 8 cities on three continents in April does not mean that he understands the issues in those cities as well as the population who live there, and that he needs no more input from the locals.

I suspect much of the information they receive is just echo chamber positive feedback.  

[Duncan]

Just now, rongo said:

Aaaaannnnnddddd . . .

The nature of these visits is almost always conducting a) mission tours, b) stake conferences (including leadership meetings), c) regional conferences, d) dedications, and the like. They may shake hands with general membership, but more often than not, they don't. They have additional meetings with limited groups of people (stake presidencies, sometimes bishops, etc.). People see them give a talk, or maybe two or three (depending on their callings and what extra meetings they have with them). But it's not like the visits they do to areas every weekend constitute a major pulse-taking and experiencing of what it's like for "the people in the pews." 

My wife and I were talking about this this week. Whether the Come Follow Me, etc. (and similar curriculum and class changes) are 100% top-down, or to an extent Church Office bureaucracy driven and Brethren approved and adopted --- regardless of which, the Brethren themselves don't participate in these lessons and meetings. Given their schedules and itineraries, by definition they aren't in Sunday School and normal week priesthood/Relief Society. Some of them haven't been regularly attending these meetings for many, many years now. So when there are systemic issues themselves (crushing boredom due to curricular and class changes, etc.), they are pretty shielded from experiencing them firsthand. And have been for some time. 

as boring as some classes are I can't imagine how boring some presentations are at church HQ! I was reading last night about a financial presentation that was given by Wilford Edling to the First Presidency and others and Pres. Kimball kept nodding off! hhahahhaha! Both Presidents Tanner and Romney thought it was great but Pres. Kimball thought differently