Former Bishop Hunger Strike for Youth Interview Policy Change

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, ALarson said:

Are you calling Gandhi an Amateur????

 

Yeah, but I am not a Gandhi fan and blame a lot of India’s problems on him so that does not shame me much.

[Duncan]

13 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, but I am not a Gandhi fan and blame a lot of India’s problems on him so that does not shame me much.

reminds me of John Pinette, would Ghandi have gone on a hunger strike if he lived in Italy?! have you tried indian food? yep, bring a sandwhich!

[mfbukowski]

20 minutes ago, Duncan said:

reminds me of John Pinette, would Ghandi have gone on a hunger strike if he lived in Italy?! have you tried indian food? yep, bring a sandwhich!

It beats British boiled bacon and deep fried bread for breakfast! My first time in London I only ate Indian food, and I love curry!

[Jeanne]

10 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

It beats British boiled bacon and deep fried bread for breakfast! My first time in London I only ate Indian food, and I love curry!

boiled bacon???  What is that all about???  😝

[mfbukowski]

54 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

boiled bacon???  What is that all about???  😝

Pretty disgusting. Sliced bacon, just as we have here, boiled. Some boiled potatoes, fried bread and an egg or two.

Yum!  😜

Edited August 2, 2018 by mfbukowski

[jkwilliams]

32 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

boiled bacon???  What is that all about???  😝

It's not about boiling sliced bacon but rather boiling the whole back bacon. The closest thing we have to it in the US is corned beef and cabbage. The Irish meal is actually boiled bacon and cabbage, but when Irish immigrants arrived in the US, they couldn't afford bacon, so they substituted corned beef instead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon_and_cabbage

But I'm with Mark: Indian food is amazing. I actually had a really good Indian meal last week in Idaho Falls, of all places, when we went up there for my grandson's blessing.

[mfbukowski]

19 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

It's not about boiling sliced bacon but rather boiling the whole back bacon. The closest thing we have to it in the US is corned beef and cabbage. The Irish meal is actually boiled bacon and cabbage, but when Irish immigrants arrived in the US, they couldn't afford bacon, so they substituted corned beef instead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon_and_cabbage

But I'm with Mark: Indian food is amazing. I actually had a really good Indian meal last week in Idaho Falls, of all places, when we went up there for my grandson's blessing.

Uh, no, it's sliced bacon, boiled.

I even edited my post above and added a pic.

There you go again telling folks what I "actually" mean.  Sigh

I mean what I say.

[jkwilliams]

Just now, mfbukowski said:

Uh, no, it's sliced bacon, boiled.

I even edited my post above and added a pic.

There you go again telling folks what I "actually" mean.  Sigh

I mean what I say.

Sorry for misreading you (not the first time). If that's what it is, that is grim stuff, indeed.

[Jeanne]

3 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

It's not about boiling sliced bacon but rather boiling the whole back bacon. The closest thing we have to it in the US is corned beef and cabbage. The Irish meal is actually boiled bacon and cabbage, but when Irish immigrants arrived in the US, they couldn't afford bacon, so they substituted corned beef instead.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon_and_cabbage

But I'm with Mark: Indian food is amazing. I actually had a really good Indian meal last week in Idaho Falls, of all places, when we went up there for my grandson's blessing.

Okay...that sounds better...me thinks...but I will stick with tea and cookies..thank you!

[JAHS]

 

David Dollahite of the Deseret News makes some good points on Bishop youth interviews:

Why we need LDS bishop-youth interviews

"Some have called for the end of one-on-one LDS bishop interviews with youths because, among other reasons, the subject of sex could be discussed in these conversations.
However, research and experience suggest that ending these interviews would hinder the spiritual development of LDS youths. Bishop counseling, even on sensitive matters, is part of a broader constellation of ecclesiastical mentoring that serves as an important tool for healthy adolescent development within the LDS tradition. With contemporary youths facing a host of escalating emotional and social challenges, society should be calling for an increase in positive adult-adolescent interactions, not an end to them. " 
 

[Bernard Gui]

Having sat on both sides of the table....and benefitted from both.....I think the safeguards being put into place are good, but I don’t think worthiness interviews should be eliminated. 

[Jeanne]

38 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Having sat on both sides of the table....and benefitted from both.....I think the safeguards being put into place are good, but I don’t think worthiness interviews should be eliminated. 

Just curious ...but don't you think that at least one apostle should have shown up to answer questions or at least show an interest?  To me, this says a lot about the thinking of an apostle and church leaders in general on how their membership feels.  Something has to matter.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Jeanne

[provoman]

18 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Just curious ...but don't you think that at least one apostle should have shown up to answer questions or at least show an interest?  To me, this says a lot about the thinking of an apostle and church leaders in general on how their membership feels.  Something has to matter.

I am glad they have not shown up. He was given an answer, he didnt like so now he is purposefully acting to embarras the Church with the hope of forcing his will upon the Church. 

It is not Sams place to hold the Church hostage nor to enforce his will upon the Church.

And No I do not think anyone from the Church should have or should show up to sams stunt.

Edited August 5, 2018 by provoman

[Jeanne]

4 minutes ago, provoman said:

I am glad they have not shown up. He was given an answer, he didnt like so now he is purposefully acting to embarras the Church with the hope of forcing his will upon the Church. 

It is not Sams place to hold the Church hostage nor to enforce his will upon the Church.

And No I do not think anyone from the Church should have or should show up to sams stunt.

Thank you for your reply. 

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Just curious ...but don't you think that at least one apostle should have shown up to answer questions or at least show an interest?  To me, this says a lot about the thinking of an apostle and church leaders in general on how their membership feels.  Something has to matter.

My understanding is that he has had discussions with Church leaders, including a seventy, at other times.  Given the recent policy changes as well as knowledge about how Apostles and the First Presidency are given summaries (at the very least) of current news, I have no doubt the top leadership is already well aware of how the segment of members that have accepted Young as their representative feels and thinks.

But Young wants the public recognition and thus is demanding that a meeting take place where the world can see it happen.  

Not the least bit surprised it didn't happen.  When it becomes solely about pressure tactics and not about communicating concerns, Church leadership should opt out, imo.

Assuming leadership don't consider how membership feels because they don't play into pressure tactics ignores the realities and necessities of human relationships, imo.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Calm

[Bernard Gui]

On 8/2/2018 at 7:43 AM, mfbukowski said:

Pretty disgusting. Sliced bacon, just as we have here, boiled. Some boiled potatoes, fried bread and an egg or two.

 

There is nothing you can do to bacon that would make it disgusting. 

 

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

My understanding is that he has had discussions with Church leaders, including a seventy, at other times.  Given the recent policy changes as well as knowledge about how Apostles and the First Presidency are given summaries (at the very least) of current news, I have no doubt the top leadership is already well aware of how the segment of members that have accepted Young as their representative feels and thinks.

But Young wants the public recognition and thus is demanding that a meeting take place where the world can see it happen.  

Not the least bit surprised it didn't happen.  When it becomes solely about pressure tactics and not about communicating concerns, Church leadership should opt out, imo.

Assuming leadership don't consider how membership feels because they don't play into pressure tactics ignores the realities and necessities of human relationships, imo.

Thanks..I guess I do understand.  I guess I was hoping that their would be an apostle that would break the mold so to speak. 

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

There is nothing you can do to bacon that would make it disgusting. 

 

I am sure my imagination could come up with something.  😎

[USU78]

6 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Having sat on both sides of the table....and benefitted from both.....I think the safeguards being put into place are good, but I don’t think worthiness interviews should be eliminated. 

What do you think about the notion that parental intrusion into the bishop/youth interview process infantilizes your, especially where present policies are designed to push youth and young adults into full participation with us older folks at earlier ages?

[Prof]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

There is nothing you can do to bacon that would make it disgusting. 

 

Agreed. Of course, fried is best. But here in the Midwest, we often put fresh green beans in a pot, add a potato or two, and then add a slice or two of bacon. Boil and eat. Fine eating.

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Prof said:

Agreed. Of course, fried is best. But here in the Midwest, we often put fresh green beans in a pot, add a potato or two, and then add a slice or two of bacon. Boil and eat. Fine eating.

Oh yes, A couple of strips or a handful of crumbles go well in red or creamy clam chowder, too. You got my mouth all watered up now.

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

I am sure my imagination could come up with something.  😎

There are a few cosmic certainties. This is one of them. Surely you have read this in the greatest philosophers. 

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, USU78 said:

What do you think about the notion that parental intrusion into the bishop/youth interview process infantilizes your, especially where present policies are designed to push youth and young adults into full participation with us older folks at earlier ages?

Interesting question. More and more now, kids expect to be treated and are treated like adults. As the distinctions are blurred, the ensuing chaos does no one much good. I see this at school and in my own family. I usually disliked teacher inservice training, but one of the best courses I ever took was Gib Bennigton’s “Disrupting the Disrupters.” He contends that most problems with kids are the result of them living in the space occupied by adults, and the best solution is to get them back in their own spaces. Parents are usually the ones pushing the kid into the adult world.

For what it’s worth, I will give two examples—-out of many—-from my teaching career.

One. Parents give kids cell phones. Kids don’t need them at school. Besides, it gives the kids full access to the adult world before they are able to deal with it. School rules: no cell phones in class, teachers may confiscate and turn them in to the office, on first offense kids can pick them up after school. Pretty straight forward. A cell phone went off in one of my 9th grade classes. I was 5 feet from the kid and saw him reach in his pocket to turn it off. Give me the phone, please. That wasn't my phone that rang. Why did it stop when you put your hand in your pocket? Give me the phone, you can get it from the office after school. School day ends and I walk through the office. There’s an angry dad waiting in front of the principal’s office. There he is, says the dad. The principal calls me over. The kid borrowed another kid’s phone to call his dad and tell him I was a bully. So, instead of the kid getting in trouble with the school and his parents, I get stuck in a long meeting with dad and principal where I am called a liar, and I’m the one who gets in trouble. 

Two. At the beginning of class, a boy squats on his desk, lifts a leg, and produces a prodigious breaking of wind. I kick him out and tell him to go sit in the office. A couple of days later, I’m in another meeting with parents and principal. They accuse me of lying about their son. He’s a good boy and would never do anything like that. In fact, mom says, she has talked to some other teachers she knows, and they agree with her that there is a type of male teacher who singles out certain young men to harass and humiliate, and she says I am of that type. Again, no problems for the kid, but reprimands for me, the teacher. BTW, I know many teachers with similar stories, including my SIL who lost her position after being falsely accused of hitting a girl in class. Kids living in the adult world, pushed there and kept there at all costs by parents.

Give me some time and I can find a great Jordan Peterson thought about this that I read in his book.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, USU78 said:

What do you think about the notion that parental intrusion into the bishop/youth interview process infantilizes your, especially where present policies are designed to push youth and young adults into full participation with us older folks at earlier ages?

Another thing occurred to me. There was a little girl in Sister Gui’s class this year that had some serious problems. If she didn’t get exactly what she wanted when she wanted it, she would start screaming and run around the room throwing chairs over, ripping things off the walls, trying to hit kids, scattering school supplies and books, hiding under desks, running out of the room and out of the school, wreaking general havoc. Long story short...after many, many, many meetings and observations by admin, psychs, counselors, and specialists, it was decided that Sister Gui would stand by her desk with a packet of stars and a paper with a grid. Anytime the girl did anything positive, my wife was supposed to immediately reward her with a star on her grid and compliment her, even for some minor action like putting down a pencil instead of throwing it across the room. 5 stars earned some free time with her choice of toys. Picture that...and the 18 other kids in the room. Eventually, a para-educator was hired as a one-on-one nanny for the girl. Her job was to give the stars, chase and corner her when she started running (she had the training that was required to touch or restrain a child, Sister Gui did not have it, so she could not touch the girl), sit with her at lunch, take her to the bathroom, etc.

Over the course of the year, this poor little girl was in the worlds of 12 adults besides her mother and grandmother  - the teacher, principal, assistant principal, school nurse and 3 office staff, school counselor, school psychologist, district behavior specialist, her doctor, and the para-professional. At the end of the year, she had made little, if any, progress towards being able to function normally around peers, but she had become quite adept at manipulating adults. No one was served well. 

I’m curious why you asked the question.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[USU78]

7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Another thing occurred to me. There was a little girl in Sister Gui’s class this year that had some serious problems. If she didn’t get exactly what she wanted when she wanted it, she would start screaming and run around the room throwing chairs over, ripping things off the walls, trying to hit kids, scattering school supplies and books, hiding under desks, running out of the room and out of the school, wreaking general havoc. Long story short...after many, many, many meetings and observations by admin, psychs, counselors, and specialists, it was decided that Sister Gui would stand by her desk with a packet of stars and a paper with a grid. Anytime the girl did anything positive, my wife was supposed to immediately reward her with a star on her grid and compliment her, even for some minor action like putting down a pencil instead of throwing it across the room. 5 stars earned some free time with her choice of toys. Picture that...and the 18 other kids in the room. Eventually, a para-educator was hired as a one-on-one nanny for the girl. Her job was to give the stars, chase and corner her when she started running (she had the training that was required to touch or restrain a child, Sister Gui did not have it, so she could not touch the girl), sit with her at lunch, take her to the bathroom, etc.

Over the course of the year, this poor little girl was in the worlds of 12 adults besides her mother and grandmother  - the teacher, principal, assistant principal, school nurse and 3 office staff, school counselor, school psychologist, district behavior specialist, her doctor, and the para-professional. At the end of the year, she had made little, if any, progress towards being able to function normally around peers, but she had become quite adept at manipulating adults. No one was served well. 

I’m curious why you asked the question.

Because what you just described leads inevitably to even worse things. Kids ain't stupid. Only truly committed numbskulls could possibly come up with so inevitable a recipe for dysfunctional, emotional retarded adults, and I'm not talking about the one child.