Duncan Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 1 hour ago, cinepro said: What a great idea! Hopefully these will turn into the ex-Mormon equivalent of mission calls openings, with friends and family gathered around the living room. and with gi normous fireplaces! and Mum's screaming in the background, "get Auntie Darlene and Uncle Marvin on the phone, they'll want to hear this!" 1
ttribe Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 3 hours ago, ksfisher said: That's embarrassing.
ttribe Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 1 hour ago, Avatar4321 said: Why would this be something to hope for? What is good about it? Your sarcasm detector is broken.
carbon dioxide Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 Any word on how his hunger strike is going? I would imagine that he has lost a lot of weight.
Jeanne Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 2 hours ago, ksfisher said: COB is a building, it cares nothing for anyone. But I do believe that the Lord's chosen prophets and apostles care for all of God's children. The innocent whom Sam is harming are those led away from God by his tactics. Then why did they not care about the salvationof Mr. Bishop ...30 or 40 years ago...I mean. really concerned.
Duncan Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 17 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: Any word on how his hunger strike is going? I would imagine that he has lost a lot of weight. I think he quit
rockpond Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 19 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said: Any word on how his hunger strike is going? I would imagine that he has lost a lot of weight. 1 minute ago, Duncan said: I think he quit He was wise enough to have put a time limit on it from the beginning (I think it was three weeks, but I'm not sure). He also gave his wife the authority to call it off at any point if she became too concerned regarding his health. I think he knew that he was unlikely to be successful in getting an interview with an apostle (or whatever his demands were) so he wanted to make sure there was a way out (other than death by starvation). 1
Calm Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Then why did they not care about the salvationof Mr. Bishop ...30 or 40 years ago...I mean. really concerned. You are assuming they knew. 1
Jeanne Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 10 minutes ago, Calm said: You are assuming they knew. He confessed to some troubles he was having...and yet, no evidence for him in the time that Denson made her first complaint. Calm, they knew.
provoman Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jeanne said: He confessed to some troubles he was having...and yet, no evidence for him in the time that Denson made her first complaint. Calm, they knew. what did he confess to? what specific acts did he confess to? 1
ksfisher Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 23 minutes ago, Jeanne said: Then why did they not care about the salvationof Mr. Bishop ...30 or 40 years ago...I mean. really concerned. Who are “they” and how do you know “they” didn’t care. We really don’t know what it was that he divulged. He made some statements to Denson, but how problematic those statements were has been thouroughly discussed here. 1
provoman Posted September 14, 2018 Posted September 14, 2018 1 hour ago, ksfisher said: Writing. Handbook 1 6.10.10 A person who has been excommunicated, disfellowshipped, or placed on formal probation by a disciplinary council may appeal the decision. An appeal of the action of a ward disciplinary council is to the stake presidency (and high council). An appeal of the action of a stake disciplinary council is to the First Presidency. An appeal of the action of a branch or district disciplinary council is to the mission president. An appeal of the action of a disciplinary council presided over by a mission president is to the First Presidency. If a person who has been disciplined wants to appeal the decision, he specifies in writing the alleged errors or unfairness in the procedure or decision. The person presents the appeal within 30 days to the presiding officer of the disciplinary council that made the decision. If a bishop or branch president presided over the council, he forwards the appeal with the Report of Church Disciplinary Action form and other relevant documents to the stake or mission president. If a stake or mission president presided over the council, he forwards the materials to the First Presidency. The decision on the appeal may be to (1) let the initial decision stand, (2) modify the initial decision, or (3) direct the disciplinary council to rehear the matter. In addition, the First Presidency may refer an appeal to another priesthood officer or body for review (with or without receiving additional evidence) and resubmittal to the First Presidency with a recommendation. appeal directly to the 1st Presidency. I cant imagine him passing up a chance to let them directly how they are not following Jesus.
USU78 Posted September 15, 2018 Posted September 15, 2018 53 minutes ago, provoman said: appeal directly to the 1st Presidency. I cant imagine him passing up a chance to let them directly how they are not following Jesus. Ask Paul Toscano how that worked for him. 1
Avatar4321 Posted September 15, 2018 Posted September 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, USU78 said: Ask Paul Toscano how that worked for him. Who?
smac97 Posted September 15, 2018 Posted September 15, 2018 8 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: Who? Exactly.
rockpond Posted September 15, 2018 Posted September 15, 2018 29 minutes ago, USU78 said: Ask Paul Toscano how that worked for him. That won’t stop Sam Young from doing it.
MiserereNobis Posted September 15, 2018 Posted September 15, 2018 4 hours ago, ksfisher said: And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Matthew 16:19 Yeah, problem is that those keys belong to the Pope, the Holy Father. So, by your logic, not being in communion with the Pope and the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church means that you are not in communion with God. Yeah, I say this tongue-in-cheek, since you are LDS, but also to point out that sometimes our relationship with God is not the same as our relationship with our priesthood hierarchy. Humans in positions of authority do NOT equal God, even if they hold God's priesthood. Catholic history has examples of Saints who defied and were even punished by their local authorities (bishops, the equivalent of your stake presidents) but in the end those bishops were not on God's side but the Saint was. Humans are fallible. God is not. 2
MiserereNobis Posted September 15, 2018 Posted September 15, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, ttribe said: Your sarcasm detector is broken. Which means that 99.8% of TheNehor's posts will be unintelligible... Edited September 15, 2018 by MiserereNobis 3
Popular Post MiserereNobis Posted September 15, 2018 Popular Post Posted September 15, 2018 3 hours ago, rockpond said: He was wise enough to have put a time limit on it from the beginning (I think it was three weeks, but I'm not sure). He also gave his wife the authority to call it off at any point if she became too concerned regarding his health. I think he knew that he was unlikely to be successful in getting an interview with an apostle (or whatever his demands were) so he wanted to make sure there was a way out (other than death by starvation). That totally undermines a hunger strike. Gandhi was willing to go the full distance to death. If one embarks on a true hunger strike, one is accepting the consequence of death. Otherwise, it's just a publicity stunt. 5
rockpond Posted September 15, 2018 Posted September 15, 2018 41 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: That totally undermines a hunger strike. Gandhi was willing to go the full distance to death. If one embarks on a true hunger strike, one is accepting the consequence of death. Otherwise, it's just a publicity stunt. I agree. (When I said he was "wise enough to put a limit on it" I meant *wise enough* for the sake of his life since I never thought his publicity stunt would be successful.) 2
Avatar4321 Posted September 15, 2018 Posted September 15, 2018 42 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: That totally undermines a hunger strike. Gandhi was willing to go the full distance to death. If one embarks on a true hunger strike, one is accepting the consequence of death. Otherwise, it's just a publicity stunt. Exactly. As I said earlier, fasting would be more productive
Abulafia Posted September 15, 2018 Posted September 15, 2018 If I could plead with the brethren and talk to them face to face, this is what I would ask them to consider. 1. Examine the history of the policy and practice of interviewing children within almost 200 years of change within Mormon teachings. There *has* been change. Why? 2. Is there room to examine the social and psychological effects of telling a very young child that sexual sins are next to murder in seriousness? (See current advice at LDS.org -"Unchastity is next to murder in seriousness". ) 3. Examine the history of private confession with a priest within Judaism and the Earliest Christian Communities. The results will and should surprise you. This is important because you claim to be the restored original Community of Jesus. 4. Examine the history of questioning, common consent and disagreement both within Mormonism and the early Christian Commuities. The results will and should surprise you. 4. Consider how the Handbook of Instructions could be amended so that there is not a disconnect between rape, murder, child abuse and those you consider to be apostates. What message does it send to the lay congregation? 5. Consider the role of Jesus, Paul and others as outspoken members of their communities in realigning priorities. 6. Accept that prophets of any gender could come from outside the institutional hierarchy. In that light, do Sam's actions and pushes for change have merit? Can you take constructive criticism designed to make the church a safer place for children? That would be a start for me. 1
Abulafia Posted September 15, 2018 Posted September 15, 2018 I'd add that the apostles and Jesus understood that being totally sexually pure was near impossible. This is why Jesus appears to have added to the law of chastity the admonition that if you think it, it's as bad as if you had done it. Within the specifics there appears to be a larger point. In our western societies adultery isn't a crime - in Jesus's society it was a crime worthy of capital punishment. Personally, I don't think Jesus was saying "thought-crimes are worthy of death ". He was arguing for humility and kindness over run of the mill sexual sins (not rape/assault or child abuse which is a whole different area). No Bishop, no apostle, no GA, no person is ever 100% worthy. So who are we to judge others?
carbon dioxide Posted September 15, 2018 Posted September 15, 2018 6 hours ago, Abulafia said: 2. Is there room to examine the social and psychological effects of telling a very young child that sexual sins are next to murder in seriousness? (See current advice at LDS.org -"Unchastity is next to murder in seriousness". ) If the Lord considers that some sexual sins to be next to murder, what is there to examine? There is no need to introduce issues to kids that they do not understand or are even interested in. So what is a "very young child" in this context? I don't think any kids in primary (which I thing qualify as very young children) are being told that at all. It is not an issue I talk about with my 8 year old son. He is not into girls right now and there is no reason for me at this point to bring it up.
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