Former Bishop Hunger Strike for Youth Interview Policy Change

[lostindc]

18 minutes ago, Calm said:

Kelly more or less dropped off the map shortly after her exing, Dehlin is much less quoted by media and is certainly less The Story after his excommunication.  I think you misjudge the media attention level to a dissenting member vs. a critical former member.

Kelly dropped off the map out of choice.  Dehlin is only growing in fame.  Other names are continuing to step up, from Ryan McKnight to Sam Young.  New stories are developing, meaning more activists.  The activists are now within the Church, whereas in years past the activists were outside the Church.  Also, the activists are becoming more tightened, meaning they're sincere, organized, and ready to respond to variables and multiple outcomes at a given time.

[lostindc]

4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

In the Church of Jesus Christ, if there is ever a conflict between doing what’s right and doing good “PR”, the former will prevail in each and every instance. 

Do you believe the worthiness interviews with minors should include sexual questions, such as asking about masturbation habits?

Edited September 16, 2018 by lostindc

[Scott Lloyd]

16 hours ago, provoman said:

 

I wonder if Deseret news should take the wind out of the sail, and publish the DC decision Sunday morning.

 

How would the Deseret News get the information? 

[Abulafia]

5 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

The Old Testament didn’t have a duly organized and and constituted Church. We do have many examples of a hierarchy.

Elijah was clearly seen as the leader of the prophets during his time, for example. Elisha succeeded him

Avatar4321, they were what we would call Jews.  They were a diverse bunch.  Jesus was and remained a Jew. So did Paul. So did the earliest Jesus followers.  

[Abulafia]

27 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The notion that the Bible is a complete record of all things Jesus said and did in His mortal ministry or as God of the Old Testament is your unBiblical supposition, not ours, and not that of the restored gospel of Christ. 

Well Scott, Hebrew Writings and Early Christian texts, canonical and non-canonical are about all we have from a historical perspective. Add to that information from other Jewish and Roman sources.

If you want to veer from that you can claim anything you like on a faith basis, and no one can argue. The information becomes non-falsifiable. 

[Calm]

52 minutes ago, lostindc said:

Kelly dropped off the map out of choice.  Dehlin is only growing in fame.  

I haven't been tracking news articles recently, but for awhile I did weekly google searches for all mentions related to the Church and its members to put together the FairMormon news service email (and I did a pretty thorough search).  During that time, there was a definite drop in articles mentioning Dehlin, especially as the story, imo (.I didn't do stats, just impressions).

Kelly came back to the States and from what I saw intended to get back in the spotlight, if only for her then job.  I do think she sabotaged herself by refusing to reconnect with Ordain Women unless she was given control (she refused to contribute to their book on their movement), iirc.

Edited September 16, 2018 by Calm

[lostindc]

13 minutes ago, Calm said:

I haven't been tracking news articles recently, but for awhile I did weekly google searches for all mentions related to the Church and its members to put together the FairMormon news service email (and I did a pretty thorough search).  During that time, there was a definite drop in articles mentioning Dehlin, especially as the story, imo (.I didn't do stats, just impressions).

I think you're correct when you said that the media coverage of Dehlin dropped off.  I expect that his peak media coverage is his excommunication coverage.  I do believe his name is growing, more are learning about him without the spike of media coverage.  He now has his own media empire within social media and likewise his podcast empire continues to grow. 

I believe Kate Kelly received more coverage during her excommunication.  

[Avatar4321]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Sam Young just read the letter from the church, he's out and ex'd. Probably not a smart move on behalf of the church as far as PR is concerned.

I suspect the Lord is more concerned with other things 

[Avatar4321]

1 hour ago, Abulafia said:

Avatar4321, they were what we would call Jews.  They were a diverse bunch.  Jesus was and remained a Jew. So did Paul. So did the earliest Jesus followers.  

And the Jews had an organized hierarchical priesthood

[Calm]

27 minutes ago, lostindc said:

I think you're correct when you said that the media coverage of Dehlin dropped off.  I expect that his peak media coverage is his excommunication coverage.  I do believe his name is growing, more are learning about him without the spike of media coverage.  He now has his own media empire within social media and likewise his podcast empire continues to grow. 

I believe Kate Kelly received more coverage during her excommunication.  

I was responding to the bad PR move comment and thus only was referring to media coverage.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Abulafia said:

Well Scott, Hebrew Writings and Early Christian texts, canonical and non-canonical are about all we have from a historical perspective. Add to that information from other Jewish and Roman sources.

If you want to veer from that you can claim anything you like on a faith basis, and no one can argue. The information becomes non-falsifiable. 

And you can “falsify” a great deal if your criterion is that there is no written record of it. Given that comparatively little that goes on is ever preserved for history, though, I wouldn’t find that persuasive. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[Abulafia]

36 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

And the Jews had an organized hierarchical priesthood

They had a priesthood that functioned to maintain and upkeep the temple. Most Jewish men were not priests. Jesus was not a priest.  Paul was not a priest. Judges, prophets, nasi, other influential scribes and leaders of various schools, did not need to be priests. 

[smac97]

3 hours ago, lostindc said:

Kelly dropped off the map out of choice.  

I question that.

3 hours ago, lostindc said:

Dehlin is only growing in fame.  

I question that, too.

Dehline's notoriety in the media appears to have diminished substancially, IMO.

3 hours ago, lostindc said:

Other names are continuing to step up, from Ryan McKnight to Sam Young.  

As to Ryan McKnight, you're probably right.  As long has his pipeline of theft is flowing, he'll get some periodic coverage.

Sam Young, though, I think will diminish.  

3 hours ago, lostindc said:

New stories are developing, meaning more activists.  The activists are now within the Church, whereas in years past the activists were outside the Church.  Also, the activists are becoming more tightened, meaning they're sincere, organized, and ready to respond to variables and multiple outcomes at a given time.

Not sure what you mean here.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Bernard Gui]

On 9/15/2018 at 1:21 PM, Abulafia said:

Perhaps the church should remove *restoration * from it's teachings

Perhaps we need a better understanding of what the Restoration is and what it is not. 

[lostindc]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

I question that.

I question that, too.

Dehline's notoriety in the media appears to have diminished substancially, IMO.

As to Ryan McKnight, you're probably right.  As long has his pipeline of theft is flowing, he'll get some periodic coverage.

Sam Young, though, I think will diminish.  

Not sure what you mean here.

Thanks,

-Smac

Smac, I could care less about what you post.  

I hope life is good to you, but I believe there's no point in a response to your posts because you continuously move the goal posts and apply rhetorical devices instead of attempting to follow the argument wherever it may lead.  I will post and respond with pretty much any other poster on this board, but with you, we just don't get anywhere, except I get banned from a thread.  So again, I hope life is good to you, good for you for loving the Church and wanting to defend, and all that other good stuff.

[smac97]

16 minutes ago, lostindc said:

Quote

I question that.

I question that, too.

Dehline's notoriety in the media appears to have diminished substancially, IMO.

As to Ryan McKnight, you're probably right.  As long has his pipeline of theft is flowing, he'll get some periodic coverage.

Sam Young, though, I think will diminish.  

Not sure what you mean here.

Thanks,

-Smac

Smac, I could care less about what you post.  

I'm okay with that.

16 minutes ago, lostindc said:

I hope life is good to you, but I believe there's no point in a response to your posts because you continuously move the goal posts and apply rhetorical devices instead of attempting to follow the argument wherever it may lead.  I will post and respond with pretty much any other poster on this board, but with you, we just don't get anywhere, except I get banned from a thread.  So again, I hope life is good to you, good for you for loving the Church and wanting to defend, and all that other good stuff.

As you like.  You are under no obligation to respond to my posts.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Scott Lloyd]

23 minutes ago, lostindc said:

Smac, I could care less about what you post.  

 .

<Couldn’t> care less. 

To quote the sage, Weird Al Yankovic, “could care less” means you do care, even if only a little bit. 

 

[Jeanne]

40 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

<Couldn’t> care less. 

To quote the sage, Weird Al Yankovic, “could care less” means you do care, even if only a little bit. 

 

Scott, do you own a hot water heater?

[MiserereNobis]

5 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

And the Jews had an organized hierarchical priesthood

 To which Jesus and His 12 apostles did not belong. 

[Abulafia]

6 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

 To which Jesus and His 12 apostles did not belong. 

Exactly. I've often wondered about individuals.  Levi, maybe? 

[Gray]

23 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

The Old Testament didn’t have a duly organized and and constituted Church. We do have many examples of a hierarchy.

In many ways the church is like a temporary holding place until the Old Testament model is realized again - that is, the people of God as a nation-state (ie Zion)

 

23 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

Elijah was clearly seen as the leader of the prophets during his time, for example. Elisha succeeded him

In the LDS church, the prophet is actually more like the king of Israel than he is like the OT prophets, in the sense that the prophet is the leader of "Zion", like the ancient kings were. Elijah went against King Ahab and called him to repent.

[HappyJackWagon]

15 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Scott, do you own a hot water heater?

Jeanne,

I'm super intrigued by this question but I have no idea what it means. I suspect there's a joke I'm missing.

[Kenngo1969]

16 hours ago, lostindc said:

Smac, I could care less about what you post.  ...

One of the most frequently misused idioms in the English language ...  

[Kenngo1969]

19 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Jeanne,

I'm super intrigued by this question but I have no idea what it means. I suspect there's a joke I'm missing.

Most people own water heaters.  Owning a "hot" water heater is, of course, redundant.  

[smac97]

14 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Quote

And the Jews had an organized hierarchical priesthood

To which Jesus and His 12 apostles did not belong. 

Well yes, they did.  We believe that the organized hierarchical priesthood in that day officiated in the Aaronic priesthood:

Quote

Although the Melchizedek Priesthood was limited to those prophets specially called and commissioned, the Aaronic Priesthood continued "with the house of Aaron among the children of Israel" from Aaron to John the Baptist (D&C 84:26-27; TPJS, p. 319). However, after Malachi (c. 400 B.C.), political corruption occurred involving the office of high priest. Persian, Greek, and Roman rulers sought to control the Jewish priesthood office by making the high priest a political appointee of the state rather than a true and righteous descendant of Aaron. This political manipulation led to rival claimants to priesthood offices and authority, with particular opposition between the Sadducees of Jerusalem and the Essenes of Qumran.

John the Baptist was a priesthood bridge between the Old and New Testament periods. Being of priestly descent through both parents, he was a legal administrator of the Law of Moses, yet he received additional blessings and keys to usher in Christ's ministry, being set apart to this power by an angel of God when he was eight days old (D&C 84:28).

As Jesus organized his Church, he established a religious order with new priesthood leaders. While he retained features of the earlier structures such as the Twelve (cf. Num. 1:4, 44; Ezra 8:24-30) and the seventy (cf. Ex. 24:1-11), he gave new titles and ordained new offices, especially the apostles, who served as special witnesses of his ministry and resurrection. Upon the foundation of apostles and prophets, Christ's Church was administered by Evangelists, seventies, elders, bishops, priests, teachers, and deacons (Eph. 4:11-16; 1 Cor. 12:12-28; see also Organization of the Church in New Testament Times).

As part of the restoration of all things (Acts 3:21; cf. Moses 6:7), The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints received elements from all the biblical priesthood periods, with the greater part coming from the pattern and offices of Christ's New Testament Church. Under the direction of modern prophets, priesthood holders of both the Melchizedek and Aaronic orders officiate today in a variety of offices and callings, continuing God's pattern of administering to his children's needs.

The formal and proper name of the Melchizedek Priesthood is "the Holy Priesthood, after the Order of the Son of God" (D&C 107:3).

In other words, the hierarchical priesthood in the days of Jesus were operating under a limited priesthood, which Jesus recognized (see, e.g., Luke 5:14), but which was subordinate to the priesthood Jesus carried.

Thanks,

-Smac