FunOnlineMan Posted July 17, 2018 Author Posted July 17, 2018 22 minutes ago, Calm said: If someone told you they heard a voice at times when they were communicating with God (I have, it said my daughter had diabetes...took her to the doctor and she did), would that satisfy your requirement? It might. But I have never heard a voice. If you have, then you’re lucky—blessed, I guess would be the word, right?
CV75 Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 37 minutes ago, FunOnlineMan said: Should I rephrase the problem in a way that is less lashy-outy? The prevailing LDS doctrine, as far as I understand it, is that I am a literal child of a loving god. That he specifically sent me here. That he gave me this planet to live on and my earthly parents. But even though these earthly parents are present and I can see the many ways that they show their love for me. It is really god that leads me, guides me, and walks beside me. Also, he will teach me all that I must do to return home to live with him someday. And I’m saying that I see nothing in my decades here on earth—including years of actively seeking him—that shows me there is a loving father out there. I hear other people having experiences ranging all over the map that they all say are how their father in heaven contacts them, but I do not accept goosebumps or feelings in my gut as being contacted, since that is not how anyone I love expects me to communicate with them, even if I could. I also would expect someone who loves me to contact me at least once every 30-35 years, at minimum. So I have concluded he is either not out there or he is indifferent to me. If he is indifferent to me, then he is not a loving father. If he’s not a loving father, then I’m fine not returning to him. I’m just wondering how LDS thinkers reconcile this problem. It isn’t solely an intellectual resolution, any more than fatherhood is a purely intellectual state. “And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.” Some people are “blind” in non-intellectual ways. Are you? If so, don’t worry about it; the works of God should be made manifest in you whether you see them or not; you’re good to go. At some point He will anoint your eyes and then you will have a choice to act on His invitation. You may still come to the same conclusions as you've been posting but at least it won’t be a purely intellectual resolution! A father can be perfectly able yet unsuccessful in communicating with a beloved child due to barriers over which he has no control, or has given up control for a greater good for that child (there are many). One example is Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34 where the Father forsook Jesus (at least Jesus thought He did). Or Matthew 17:21 where Jesus could be perceived as having withheld an important principle from His disciples. Or 3 Nephi 9:13; Jesus is able to heal but sometimes there are barriers to that.
Maidservant Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 6 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: Hi, I would never turn down free parenting advice. Ha ha, cool. 6 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: You have the point now. I think he sucks as a parent. That’s harsh language to use about the deity of the group, though, so I sort of came at it from this angle. Okay. I appreciate clarity. I also often have the same thoughts--that my idea of what a parent/father ought to be doesn't really match what I'm seeing/experiencing, or think I'm seeing/experiencing. Can't go to my life experiences with my earthly fathers (two of them), as I found them disappointing as well. 6 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: When I set this whole thing out for people I often get accused of being bitter against god or hurt or whatever. I get asked how my relationship with my own father is, etc., and I get why. But is that to say my criticisms against god as a parent are blurred by the direct result of his parenting? If so, that doesn’t make my assertions on what is evident about our father/son relationship weaker or “lashing out.” I’m saying, as Cinepro states above, that god sucks so bad as a parent, a vast number of his children don’t even think he exists. There are other vast numbers of guys in pajama pants and fedoras who think believing in him is a sign of mental disorders or a lack of intelligence. We don’t even know in which direction to lash. A billion or so people would probably say east, so maybe over there. Okay. I'm sorry. I still think, in general, when people have this tone (on any subject, not just this), it is masking pain. That pain is likely understandable. And I have a lot of God-abandonment pain myself, so maybe I'm too close to the issue. 6 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: The reason that god is referred to as a father is because the Bible says so, right? Not sure about that. Jesus speaks of our Father. I don't know if the Old Testament does; I think not. I don't know a full explanation of why LDS do exactly. I guess "Bible" is a good short hand for a much longer development of thought and pattern. 6 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: I know I’m not on one of those message boards, but the reason we even conceive of god as a father is because god told somebody else to leave us a note. That’s not even how good roommates treat each other, and that’s my whole gripe, for the purposes of this online discussion board. For me--and maybe it's because I'm Pisces--I have been in a conversation with God since I became an aware human as a child, and there has never been a break in it. When I hear people say, how do you get God to talk, I laugh and say--how do you get Him to shut up? Ha ha. I experience God on a second to second basis. It's not belief. It's experience. On the other hand, I (personally) define and experience God differently and much more broadly than "Our Heavenly Father". And I too--as I already mentioned--wonder where the "Heavenly Father" part makes sense with "God". So I am learning little by little, since this is my question. I agree that it seems like this whole Heavenly Father thing should be more easy, simple, direct, and more recognizable as our human relationships. Maybe it is for some, but that seems to have escaped me as well. Or the alternative (for me), is to make its symbolism and how it is to play out in our lives, more clear. 6 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: As for the Walsch quote, it presupposes a belief in god, which has not been shown to be a necessary part of human existence. That's not what I got from it. It acknowledges the deep yearning for GOD/give it a name, in the bones. Which is a matter other than belief. 'God' is just an English syllable. But there is something awesome and horrible in life and living that humans have tried to name from the beginning of time until now--losing, meeting it. 6 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: And I plan to give my kids big embarrassing hugs and kisses when I drop them off for college and bother them with my attention and farty old dad advice as much as possible well into their own fart dad old age if possible, because I love them. Nice. Blessed children. 2
FunOnlineMan Posted July 18, 2018 Author Posted July 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: You have stated you do not accept “goosebumps or feelings in your gut” as legitimate communication from God. Goosebumps I understand, but I assume “feelings in the gut” is your hip dismissal of what some describe as a burning in the bosom. Of course, that phrase is easily mocked, but for lack of a better term, for many people I know there is something very real about the feeling one has when one is communication with God. I’m not mocking the phrase. Whenever people quote the phrase verbatim it seems a little sneers, so I rephrased it. I’ve heard it related to a gut feeling. Maybe I lived in more cowboy country or something. I don’t know. I wasn’t trying to mock it. You may want to chill on the defensive maneuvers. It will save us both a little screen time. 6 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: But since you reject that, perhaps there is something you could accept. If God were literally to say hello to you (to reach out and you heard his voice, would that be better? Yeah, we can start there. 6 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: What evidence would you accept and how would you know it was from God? How would you recognize any attempt by God to communicate with you? How do you know that others are incapable of or deluded into recognizing God's influence in their lives? Like I said, he could start by introducing himself. 2 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Alma said if we always remember what God did for our fathers (and grandmothers) and we won’t go wrong. Not sure what you’re implying.
Calm Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, FunOnlineMan said: It might. But I have never heard a voice. If you have, then you’re lucky—blessed, I guess would be the word, right? I feel that way. If he hadn’t said anything, our daughter would have crashed out of the country (maybe in the middle of Montana where it would take us some hours to get to a hospital), won’t likely have killed her but likely would have added a few more years to the whole anger/denial stages and cost us money we could not afford at the time I don’t have a clue why I got that then and not help now directing us to the best treatment for her other issues or others have family killed or badly injured. Edited July 18, 2018 by Calm
Popular Post Hamba Tuhan Posted July 18, 2018 Popular Post Posted July 18, 2018 2 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: Then maybe you can elaborate on what you mean by direct communication. I ask God questions; He answers. I seek advice; He guides and corrects. I complain; He clarifies and (often!) also corrects. I seek comfort: He fills me with unspeakable love and peace. How does He do some of the above? He speaks through the Holy Ghost. He speaks internally in His own voice. He speaks audibly in His own voice. He sends dreams and visions that are fulfilled in every detail. He directs me to specific scriptural passages. He somehow inspires prophets and other authorised leaders to address the very topics that I've been dwelling upon. He sends angels with messages. He makes me feel good about certain decisions -- even when I 'know' I shouldn't! -- whilst withholding that endorsement from other decisions. I'm less certain how He fills me with love and peace; it just seems to happen. That's my personal list, but it's possible I've left some things off. Quote I don’t think you and he are using that term in the same way. Sadly, I suspect we are. 1 hour ago, FunOnlineMan said: I’m just wondering how LDS thinkers reconcile this problem. In all honesty, I don't know how to reconcile a problem that is not a problem for me, if that makes any sense. I'm more than willing to accept that you've accurately described your experiences. But I don't know you from Adam and would have no clue how to begin addressing your life experiences when they've been so different to my own. If I knew you in real life, it's possible that I would be in a better position to understand your situation and 'reconcile' it, but I'm not sure that would necessarily be the case even then. The one thing I could maybe offer would be an invitation to tag along with me for some of the ride. 5
FunOnlineMan Posted July 18, 2018 Author Posted July 18, 2018 35 minutes ago, CV75 said: It isn’t solely an intellectual resolution, any more than fatherhood is a purely intellectual state. So I’m being too clinical? That could be true. It’s something I’ve been guilty of in the past. 35 minutes ago, CV75 said: “And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was blind from his birth. And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him.” Some people are “blind” in non-intellectual ways. Are you? If so, don’t worry about it; the works of God should be made manifest in you whether you see them or not; you’re good to go. At some point He will anoint your eyes and then you will have a choice to act on His invitation. You may still come to the same conclusions as you've been posting but at least it won’t be a purely intellectual resolution! So wait on the lord? I guess that’s kind of the approach I’ve taken. I tried the fasting and prayer route, so now I’ll just wait for him to reach out. But I don’t think that is what the church would teach, would it? 35 minutes ago, CV75 said: A father can be perfectly able yet unsuccessful in communicating with a beloved child due to barriers over which he has no control, or has given up control for a greater good for that child (there are many). One example is Matthew 27:46 and Mark 15:34 where the Father forsook Jesus (at least Jesus thought He did). Or Matthew 17:21 where Jesus could be perceived as having withheld an important principle from His disciples. Or 3 Nephi 9:13; Jesus is able to heal but sometimes there are barriers to that. I’m not asking for god to put in 40 hours a week over here. Just make contact. Christ is wondering why god forsook him, but at least he was there at first, you know? I haven’t had anything at all, so he hasn’t really forsaken me, as far as I can tell.
FunOnlineMan Posted July 18, 2018 Author Posted July 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: In all honesty, I don't know how to reconcile a problem that is not a problem for me, if that makes any sense. I'm more than willing to accept that you've accurately described your experiences. But I don't know you from Adam and would have no clue how to begin addressing your life experiences when they've been so different to my own. If I knew you in real life, it's possible that I would be in a better position to understand your situation and 'reconcile' it, but I'm not sure that would necessarily be the case even then. The one thing I could maybe offer would be an invitation to tag along with me for some of the ride. Yeah, you and one other person have heard voices, and, therefore have no need to reconcile the problem. You obviously can’t fix whatever’s wrong with my antenna or whatever, but why is it, do you think that your relationship with god seems to be the exception? As for tagging along I’m down; but unless you live in southern Nevada or southern Utah, we may have to wait.
mfbukowski Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 57 minutes ago, FunOnlineMan said: No. Other some than the dead ones, technically. Yes. That would work. He definitely thought of all those approaches, according to the Bible. I wouldn’t want anyone harmed on my behalf, though. He could just contact me like my visible family does. Call. Leave me a voicemail that I wish were a text. That would work. Why don't you want anyone to be harmed on your behalf? Do you think it is wrong to do so? Where is your evidence?
bluebell Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 3 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: Fervent study and prayer. Living the commandments. Serving in his name. And in doing that you never once felt the spirit or felt God's love for you? Or did you believe that you felt those things at the time but now think that you were wrong?
Popular Post Hamba Tuhan Posted July 18, 2018 Popular Post Posted July 18, 2018 4 minutes ago, FunOnlineMan said: You obviously can’t fix whatever’s wrong with my antenna or whatever ... More than that, I can't even be certain that something is wrong with your 'antenna or whatever'. Look, that may be the case, but from my vantage point, how could I know for certain? Besides, I'm uncomfortable with the value judgement that seems inherent in that position. Quote ... but why is it, do you think that your relationship with god seems to be the exception? I don't accept that I'm exceptional in any way. As I mentioned before, I belong to an entire community of Saints who talk openly and frequently about God's direct interactions with them. Is this not the case where you live? I've lived on three different continents and four islands (though I was the only member on one of them), and I've never once had another Church member tell me that I'm weird in any way. I distinctly remember my first Sunday attending the little independent branch where I was researching one semester as a master's student. This branch was so remote that none of the local members had ever met a full-time missionary, seen a session of General Conference, etc. (The backbone of the branch was three brothers who had all been baptised by their father, who had met missionaries whilst stationed as a soldier on another island. The wives of two of the brothers had eventually been baptised by their husbands, though only after much time and patience. Add in the kids, one brother from another island and me, and that was the whole branch.) Our 'chapel' was a small stilt-house in the middle of a clearing in a coconut grove. It was the first Sunday of the month, and so sacrament meeting was our testimony meeting. I was curious to hear what a testimony in such a locale would sound like. The branch president started the meeting with his own testimony ... and it sounded exactly like mine. In fact, he specifically shared an experience from the past week where he had turned to Heavenly Father in desperation and received a clear answer to his prayer. Quote As for tagging along I’m down; but unless you live in southern Nevada or southern Utah, we may have to wait. Thanks, mate. Unfortunately for both of us, I'm not even in the same hemisphere as Nevada or Utah. 7
kllindley Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 51 minutes ago, FunOnlineMan said: Yeah, you and one other person have heard voices, and, therefore have no need to reconcile the problem. You obviously can’t fix whatever’s wrong with my antenna or whatever, but why is it, do you think that your relationship with god seems to be the exception? As for tagging along I’m down; but unless you live in southern Nevada or southern Utah, we may have to wait. I haven't had an audible voice yet. Lots of clear insight-non verbal aha moments. Frequent word by word dictation as I write. Dreams have also been a powerful source of revelation. And finally, I don't overstate how literally the scriptures, especially the Book of Mormon, have served as a Urim and Thummim is conveying answers to me. I'm also not convinced that my experience is an exception. I can get much relate to your description of not experiencing that connection. There were months and even years when I felt like the heavens were closed to me and not always for any reason I could identify. I resonate deeply with the concept of the "dark night of the soul.". For me personally, several times the "key" to ending that dark night was softening my heart and spiritually opening myself up in an authentic and vulnerable way. A couple times, I believe the locked door was clinical depression which impaired my ability to perceive the spiritual. Other times it seemed that key simply would not work and I had to wait. 4
Calm Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) Quote A couple times, I believe the locked door was clinical depression which impaired my ability to perceive the spiritual. I had medication (misdiagnosed with depression) that did this to me for three years. I didn't really notice the light going off (too sleep deprived probably), but after a few months it became obvious. And three days after stopping the medication it came back on. Edited July 18, 2018 by Calm 4
Eek! Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 9 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: I’m saying, as Cinepro states above, that god sucks so bad as a parent, a vast number of his children don’t even think he exists. 9 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: I don’t see evidence of him in the lives of my family and friends who I know believe strongly in him either. So I take the position that he doesn’t exist. If he did exist as presented in Judeo-Christian models, he’d be a terrible father. Isn't it kind of a waste of time and energy to carry around a bunch of grievances against something you don't believe exists? Isn't that kinda like raging against Santa Claus? 9 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: And I plan to give my kids big embarrassing hugs and kisses when I drop them off for college and bother them with my attention and farty old dad advice as much as possible well into their own fart dad old age if possible, because I love them. It sounds to me like you don't need any eternal reward/eternal punishment system to pressure you into being a good parent. I suspect that likewise you need no eternal reward/punishment system to pressure you into being a good person. There is a certain baggage-free purity to being a moral atheist, in my opinion. The rest of us secretly hope someone up there is watching when we do something good. For the atheist, virtue is its own reward, as there is no such secret hope. Years ago when I was in the MTC, in the main entryway was a replica of some engraved words that had impressed David O. McKay when he was on his mission in the bonny hills of Scotland. Those words are, "What e're thou art, act well thy part." Sounds to me like your part includes "moral good-parent kinda snarky yet kinda friendly atheist". My suggestion is, just be the best version of whatever YOU see as being your part. 1
Bernard Gui Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 6 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: You may want to chill on the defensive maneuvers. It will save us both a little screen time. Gladly, if, as I suggested earlier, you will stop and consider beforehand that what you write often comes across flippant and dismissive, even puerile, such as your calling a spiritual experience goosebumps and a feeling in the gut. That is incorrect and offensive. I have never heard a Mormon describe it as anything like that. 1
Bernard Gui Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: Like I said, he could start by introducing himself. If he knocks, you must answer the door. How would you know that the person introducing himself, or herself, is God? Quote 15 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Alma said if we always remember what God did for our fathers (and grandmothers) and we won’t go wrong. Not sure what you’re implying. I witnessed my father’s miraculous conversion to the gospel. I was in the room when it happened and saw the change it made in him for the rest of his life. When I have doubts or troubles, I find it helpful to remember what God did for my father. Like this when Alma was saying farewell to his son Helaman.... Quote Alma 32:28 And I know that he will raise me up at the last day, to dwell with him in glory; yea, and I will praise him forever, for he has brought our fathers out of Egypt, and he has swallowed up the Egyptians in the Red Sea; and he led them by his power into the promised land; yea, and he has delivered them out of bondage and captivity from time to time. 29 Yea, and he has also brought our fathers out of the land of Jerusalem; and he has also, by his everlasting power, delivered them out of bondage and captivity, from time to time even down to the present day; and I have always retained in remembrance their captivity; yea, and ye also ought to retain in remembrance, as I have done, their captivity. And in the message he delivered to his people on his missionary journey.... Quote Alma 5:6 And now behold, I say unto you, my brethren, you that belong to this church, have you sufficiently retained in remembrance the captivity of your fathers? Yea, and have you sufficiently retained in remembrance his mercy and long-suffering towards them? And moreover, have ye sufficiently retained in remembrance that he has delivered their souls from hell? 7 Behold, he changed their hearts; yea, he awakened them out of a deep sleep, and they awoke unto God. Behold, they were in the midst of darkness; nevertheless, their souls were illuminated by the light of the everlasting word.... Of course, this probably will not convince you nor will it solve your problem. Or maybe you might consider what God did for your grandmother. Edited July 18, 2018 by Bernard Gui 1
Stargazer Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 On 7/16/2018 at 8:53 PM, FunOnlineMan said: I finally made it to posting strength. Hello. Anyway… •God is our perfect parent in heaven. A perfect parent should exemplify only perfect parental attributes. If I pattern my parenting as closely after the heavenly parenting model as I possibly can, I should expect to end up as close to being the perfect parent as I possibly can. If I were to even attempt to follow the heavenly parenting model, what would it look like? And would you prescribe this as a viable parenting system? The heavenly model is the ideal earthly model, but the problem is, because it's out of your sight you can't see the heavenly model in action. You have to wing it. Heavenly parents brought us up, and as perfectly as possible, but even there we had agency and could choose wrong -- as Lucifer and one-third of us did. We do not remember how we were brought up in our pre-existence, so we cannot use it as a model for this mortal life. It ought to be blazingly obvious, however, that we should treat our offspring with both love and firmness, teaching proper behavior by both precept and our example. We can't force them to be good; they have their agency in the end. And just like our Heavenly Parents did by sending us into mortality, we eventually have to send our mortal children into the world to fend for themselves. The underlined part above is the heavenly parenting model, as far as I can determine. And I would definitely prescribe it as viable. 1
CV75 Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 12 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: So I’m being too clinical? That could be true. It’s something I’ve been guilty of in the past. So wait on the lord? I guess that’s kind of the approach I’ve taken. I tried the fasting and prayer route, so now I’ll just wait for him to reach out. But I don’t think that is what the church would teach, would it? I’m not asking for god to put in 40 hours a week over here. Just make contact. Christ is wondering why god forsook him, but at least he was there at first, you know? I haven’t had anything at all, so he hasn’t really forsaken me, as far as I can tell. I’m not suggesting you are too clinical. I am suggesting that, where you are wondering how LDS thinkers reconcile this problem, there are other facets to consider than thinking alone. I do think the Church teaches to wait on the Lord, and I think that will inevitably result in contact. The three examples I offered are not comprehensive and may not apply directly to your experience, but there are many others that do. The point is that God, who is perfectly capable yet unsuccessful in communicating His love with you may be facing barriers over which He has no control, or has chosen not to communicate per your expectations in advancing your greater good. We see that happen even with regular people all the time! I recommend you research where God has withheld communication or knowledge in a non-punitive or apathetic way, or without purpose. Regarding expectations, your expression of love and His may simply not yet be on the same wavelength. That is solely between you and He.
mfbukowski Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 20 hours ago, FunOnlineMan said: Hi, I would never turn down free parenting advice. You have the point now. I think he sucks as a parent. That’s harsh language to use about the deity of the group, though, so I sort of came at it from this angle. When I set this whole thing out for people I often get accused of being bitter against god or hurt or whatever. I get asked how my relationship with my own father is, etc., and I get why. But is that to say my criticisms against god as a parent are blurred by the direct result of his parenting? If so, that doesn’t make my assertions on what is evident about our father/son relationship weaker or “lashing out.” I’m saying, as Cinepro states above, that god sucks so bad as a parent, a vast number of his children don’t even think he exists. There are other vast numbers of guys in pajama pants and fedoras who think believing in him is a sign of mental disorders or a lack of intelligence. We don’t even know in which direction to lash. A billion or so people would probably say east, so maybe over there. The reason that god is referred to as a father is because the Bible says so, right? I know I’m not on one of those message boards, but the reason we even conceive of god as a father is because god told somebody else to leave us a note. That’s not even how good roommates treat each other, and that’s my whole gripe, for the purposes of this online discussion board. As for the Walsch quote, it presupposes a belief in god, which has not been shown to be a necessary part of human existence. And I plan to give my kids big embarrassing hugs and kisses when I drop them off for college and bother them with my attention and farty old dad advice as much as possible well into their own fart dad old age if possible, because I love them. None. That’s the whole angle here. I see no evidence of him in my life. Not even anecdotal. I don’t see evidence of him in the lives of my family and friends who I know believe strongly in him either. So I take the position that he doesn’t exist. If he did exist as presented in Judeo-Christian models, he’d be a terrible father. It is a noble goal, yes. Perfect anything would realistically take more than luck. To your questions, these are hypothetical, yes? And do I understand you correctly here, that we shouldn’t criticize god’s worth as a father because we don’t fully understand the journey we’re on? I don’t think him using his “beloved” son as a stand in makes him any less of an indifferent father. I see it more of the way you find out what dad wants is you get out the stack of jumbled papers that you heard he dictated, an old cook book, and a bunch of letters from one of your cousins to people you don’t know. That or bow your head and guess. There is no empirical evidence for any of this.
mfbukowski Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 10 hours ago, Calm said: I had medication (misdiagnosed with depression) that did this to me for three years. I didn't really notice the light going off (too sleep deprived probably), but after a few months it became obvious. And three days after stopping the medication it came back on. Anti ADHD meds did the same for me. Now we have a whole generation raised on them. Between antidepressants and ADHD we have a lot of spiritual pollution meds floating around. 1
mfbukowski Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 For what it's worth I just found out that the usual traditional Med for ADHD "Rit.lin" will cause you to get a 403 Forbidden message if you post it fully spelled out. Go figure.
FunOnlineMan Posted July 18, 2018 Author Posted July 18, 2018 14 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Why don't you want anyone to be harmed on your behalf? Because online snark is as far as I think anyone should ever go. 14 hours ago, mfbukowski said: Do you think it is wrong to do so? Where is your evidence? I don’t have to think harm is wrong. Harm is wrong. I have no evidence. Positivism is dead. You need to get out more. 1
FunOnlineMan Posted July 18, 2018 Author Posted July 18, 2018 14 hours ago, bluebell said: And in doing that you never once felt the spirit or felt God's love for you? Or did you believe that you felt those things at the time but now think that you were wrong? I have no memories of ever feeling the spirit. I feel like if I did and forgot, then I probably didn’t.
FunOnlineMan Posted July 18, 2018 Author Posted July 18, 2018 14 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: More than that, I can't even be certain that something is wrong with your 'antenna or whatever'. Look, that may be the case, but from my vantage point, how could I know for certain? Besides, I'm uncomfortable with the value judgement that seems inherent in that position. Yeah, from my position, there does appear to be a value judgment here. 14 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: I don't accept that I'm exceptional in any way. As I mentioned before, I belong to an entire community of Saints who talk openly and frequently about God's direct interactions with them. Is this not the case where you live? I've lived on three different continents and four islands (though I was the only member on one of them), and I've never once had another Church member tell me that I'm weird in any way. I don’t think anyone would tell you revelation is weird at an LDS church. You may get looks at other churches, but Mormons are pretty openly on board with modern revelation, right? 14 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Thanks, mate. Unfortunately for both of us, I'm not even in the same hemisphere as Nevada or Utah. That sounds really really nice.
FunOnlineMan Posted July 18, 2018 Author Posted July 18, 2018 14 hours ago, kllindley said: I haven't had an audible voice yet. Lots of clear insight-non verbal aha moments. Frequent word by word dictation as I write. Dreams have also been a powerful source of revelation. And finally, I don't overstate how literally the scriptures, especially the Book of Mormon, have served as a Urim and Thummim is conveying answers to me. Don’t you want more? 14 hours ago, kllindley said: I'm also not convinced that my experience is an exception. It’s certainly not common. 14 hours ago, kllindley said: I can get much relate to your description of not experiencing that connection. There were months and even years when I felt like the heavens were closed to me and not always for any reason I could identify. I resonate deeply with the concept of the "dark night of the soul.". For me personally, several times the "key" to ending that dark night was softening my heart and spiritually opening myself up in an authentic and vulnerable way. A couple times, I believe the locked door was clinical depression which impaired my ability to perceive the spiritual. Other times it seemed that key simply would not work and I had to wait. It’s not comforting, to me, to think there would be months of time where I’m unwittingly doing things to keep my father from contacting me.
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