Two adults should be present when teaching children OR YOUTH

[amo]

On March 26, the First Presidency sent a "resource document" to Church leaders in the United States and Canada “in a continuing effort to counsel leaders on how to prevent, identify, and respond to abuse”.

 

One of the new policies states :

“When adults are teaching children or youth in Church settings, at least two responsible adults should be present. The two adults could be two men, two women, or a married couple (see Handbook 2: Administering the Church [2010], 11.8.1). Where it may not be practical to have at least two adults in a classroom, leaders should consider combining classes.” ("resource document" )

 

My question is :

Has this new policy been implemented and followed in your wards/branches…?

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by amo

[rongo]

Yes. 

Here's a question: if a bishop (or bishopric member) subs for youth Sunday School, does he need a partner teacher? He is regularly alone with youth (one-on-one) in interviews, and is teaching a group of youth. I have to admit, when I cover for suddenly absent teachers, I don't grab someone else so that we are two deep. 

But yes, we follow the instruction as best we can. And 100% in primary. 

[Gray]

9 minutes ago, amo said:

My question is :

Has this new policy been implemented and followed in your wards/branches…?

 

No, it hasn't.

[JAHS]

Not yet. They do leave the door open in full view of anyone walking down the hallway. 
Sad that a few perverts have brought us to the point of requiring two people there. 
We are having enough trouble just getting one teacher per class.

[HappyJackWagon]

11 minutes ago, rongo said:

Yes. 

Here's a question: if a bishop (or bishopric member) subs for youth Sunday School, does he need a partner teacher? He is regularly alone with youth (one-on-one) in interviews, and is teaching a group of youth. I have to admit, when I cover for suddenly absent teachers, I don't grab someone else so that we are two deep. 

But yes, we follow the instruction as best we can. And 100% in primary. 

Good job managing that process. It's not easy. But to answer your question, I think bishops should be included. An exception isn't outlined in the handbook, is it? There is a reason (though I disagree) as to why a bishop would be one on one with youth for interviews, but that same reasoning doesn't apply to the classroom

I haven't seen any change in my ward yet.

Edited May 24, 2018 by HappyJackWagon

[bluebell]

27 minutes ago, amo said:

On March 26, the First Presidency sent a "resource document" to Church leaders in the United States and Canada “in a continuing effort to counsel leaders on how to prevent, identify, and respond to abuse”.

 

One of the new policies states :

“When adults are teaching children or youth in Church settings, at least two responsible adults should be present. The two adults could be two men, two women, or a married couple (see Handbook 2: Administering the Church [2010], 11.8.1). Where it may not be practical to have at least two adults in a classroom, leaders should consider combining classes.” ("resource document" )

 

My question is :

Has this new policy been implemented and followed in your wards/branches…?

 

Yep.  We got an email about it the moment it came out.  Our ward leadership didn't even wait until the next Sunday to start worrying about it.

[mfbukowski]

36 minutes ago, amo said:

On March 26, the First Presidency sent a "resource document" to Church leaders in the United States and Canada “in a continuing effort to counsel leaders on how to prevent, identify, and respond to abuse”.

 

One of the new policies states :

“When adults are teaching children or youth in Church settings, at least two responsible adults should be present. The two adults could be two men, two women, or a married couple (see Handbook 2: Administering the Church [2010], 11.8.1). Where it may not be practical to have at least two adults in a classroom, leaders should consider combining classes.” ("resource document" )

 

My question is :

Has this new policy been implemented and followed in your wards/branches…?

 

Yes

[rongo]

10 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Good job managing that process. It's not easy. But to answer your question, I think bishops should be included. An exception isn't outlined in the handbook, is it? There is a reason (though I disagree) as to why a bishop would be one on one with youth for interviews, but that same reasoning doesn't apply to the classroom

I haven't seen any change in my ward yet.

It does raise questions that have never been thought about before. What about break-out sessions for a stake youth conference? I had like 30 youth per rotation when I taught the one on dealing with concerns and difficult questions. No opportunity for anything to happen, and it's even less of a "grooming" environment than what the most fanatical of critics claim ("even if everything is above board in the interview, the very fact that it is one-on-one and worthiness is asked about constitutes grooming"). But, strictly interpreted, with no exceptions, yes, it should always be two adults. According to the instructions. 

I have to wonder if the instructions are simply supposed to exist, so that people can be thrown under the bus if anything happens. Bottom line is: follow the instructions, so that you're covered if anything were to happen. 

[ksfisher]

29 minutes ago, rongo said:

It does raise questions that have never been thought about before. What about break-out sessions for a stake youth conference? I had like 30 youth per rotation when I taught the one on dealing with concerns and difficult questions. No opportunity for anything to happen, and it's even less of a "grooming" environment than what the most fanatical of critics claim ("even if everything is above board in the interview, the very fact that it is one-on-one and worthiness is asked about constitutes grooming"). But, strictly interpreted, with no exceptions, yes, it should always be two adults. According to the instructions. 

 

The relevant quote from the policy is:

"When adults are teaching children or youth in Church settings, at least two responsible adults should be present."

I would not consider your youth conference, with 30 kids in the room, a "Church setting."  To me this is refering to the traditional Sunday classes with a small group of youth and one teacher.  Not a large room filled with kids. 

For perspective, no changes have been made in seminary classes as there is still one teacher per class. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by ksfisher

[HappyJackWagon]

39 minutes ago, rongo said:

It does raise questions that have never been thought about before. What about break-out sessions for a stake youth conference? I had like 30 youth per rotation when I taught the one on dealing with concerns and difficult questions. No opportunity for anything to happen, and it's even less of a "grooming" environment than what the most fanatical of critics claim ("even if everything is above board in the interview, the very fact that it is one-on-one and worthiness is asked about constitutes grooming"). But, strictly interpreted, with no exceptions, yes, it should always be two adults. According to the instructions. 

I have to wonder if the instructions are simply supposed to exist, so that people can be thrown under the bus if anything happens. Bottom line is: follow the instructions, so that you're covered if anything were to happen. 

I disagree. Grooming can be done in large groups by teaching what is or is not appropriate behavior. When that teaching comes from an authority grooming could happen. When there is no other adult to balance or even be a witness, then you would have a leader's word verses a youth who it could be argued simply misunderstood. Again, not to say grooming will happen, but even though the risk is greatly reduced, it certainly could.

[The Nehor]

The big question we have is seminary. Do we need a second teacher for early morning classes in every room.

My ward is working on implementation. Primary is good. Some of the YM/YW classes are still working on it. I think we have everyone but Priests Quorum and we are usually good as the Bishop is there.

[HappyJackWagon]

3 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The big question we have is seminary. Do we need a second teacher for early morning classes in every room.

My ward is working on implementation. Primary is good. Some of the YM/YW classes are still working on it. I think we have everyone but Priests Quorum and we are usually good as the Bishop is there.

Good point about seminary. I hadn't thought of that. That's going to be rough

 

[provoman]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

Yes. 

Here's a question: if a bishop (or bishopric member) subs for youth Sunday School, does he need a partner teacher? He is regularly alone with youth (one-on-one) in interviews, and is teaching a group of youth. I have to admit, when I cover for suddenly absent teachers, I don't grab someone else so that we are two deep. 

But yes, we follow the instruction as best we can. And 100% in primary. 

Are you, Rongo an adult that teaches children?

If YES,  Then you need a second adult in the room. 

 

While a one-on-one interview may involve teaching moments, an interview does not fall under the two deep.

This two deep policy was announced shortly after news broje of a MTC President was accused of rape....so a Bishop is not immune from temption or terrible acts, so you are not exempt from two deep because of your calling.

[provoman]

15 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The big question we have is seminary. Do we need a second teacher for early morning classes in every room.

My ward is working on implementation. Primary is good. Some of the YM/YW classes are still working on it. I think we have everyone but Priests Quorum and we are usually good as the Bishop is there.

A second teacher would be needed for realease time also.

[rongo]

4 minutes ago, provoman said:

Are you, Rongo an adult that teaches children?

If YES,  Then you need a second adult in the room. 

While a one-on-one interview may involve teaching moments, an interview does not fall under the two deep.

This two deep policy was announced shortly after news broje of a MTC President was accused of rape....so a Bishop is not immune from temption or terrible acts, so you are not exempt from two deep because of your calling.

I understand that, but when there are 20 youth in the young women's room with you . . . 

I don't think seminary is going to be included in this. It's under CES, and is different from Church.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, amo said:

On March 26, the First Presidency sent a "resource document" to Church leaders in the United States and Canada “in a continuing effort to counsel leaders on how to prevent, identify, and respond to abuse”.

 

One of the new policies states :

“When adults are teaching children or youth in Church settings, at least two responsible adults should be present. The two adults could be two men, two women, or a married couple (see Handbook 2: Administering the Church [2010], 11.8.1). Where it may not be practical to have at least two adults in a classroom, leaders should consider combining classes.” ("resource document" )

 

My question is :

Has this new policy been implemented and followed in your wards/branches…?

 

Absolutely. No exceptions.

[provoman]

11 minutes ago, rongo said:

I understand that, but when there are 20 youth in the young women's room with you . . . 

I don't think seminary is going to be included in this. It's under CES, and is different from Church.

The number of other people in the room is not relevant, two adults regardless of number of children in the room

[ksfisher]

41 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The big question we have is seminary. Do we need a second teacher for early morning classes in every room.

I would think that policy on that would determined by CES.

[ksfisher]

26 minutes ago, provoman said:

A second teacher would be needed for realease time also.

Different setting. Different policies.  The church has not changed it's policy regarding seminaries.

[rongo]

4 minutes ago, provoman said:

The number of other people in the room is not relevant, two adults regardless of number of children in the room

You haven't been in a bishopric, have you? 

It sounds good in theory, but isn't always possible in the moment. We do the best we can. I think the Brethren know that. And if something ever happens, they can point to the policy and say that there should have been two people. 

[ksfisher]

3 minutes ago, rongo said:

It sounds good in theory, but isn't always possible in the moment. We do the best we can. I think the Brethren know that.

We have a goal of following the policy 100% of the time.  But, with teachers not letting anyone know they're not going to be in church this just isn't always possible.  We don't have the resources to cover everything, always.

4 minutes ago, rongo said:

And if something ever happens, they can point to the policy and say that there should have been two people.

I don't think this is the case.  Church policy and procedures never seems to cover every possible contingency.  I believe the brethren expect leaders to be guided by the Spirit and local circumstances in implementing and following policy.

[provoman]

22 minutes ago, rongo said:

You haven't been in a bishopric, have you? 

It sounds good in theory, but isn't always possible in the moment. We do the best we can. I think the Brethren know that. And if something ever happens, they can point to the policy and say that there should have been two people. 

Thebpolicy is prefaced with "should" so every adult should have another adukt in the room.

If you are exempt then everyone else is equally exempt....again this policy was announced after a former MTC President was accused of rape.

[rongo]

5 minutes ago, provoman said:

The policy is prefaced with "should" so every adult should have another adukt in the room.

If you are exempt then everyone else is equally exempt....again this policy was announced after a former MTC President was accused of rape.

I'm not claiming an exemption --- merely pointing out that, in the moment, and at the last minute with no notice, it isn't always possible. We do the best we can, and we do try to follow the policy.

We did make our primary two-deep (including women) immediately after this came out. 

[provoman]

2 minutes ago, rongo said:

I'm not claiming an exemption --- merely pointing out that, in the moment, and at the last minute with no notice, it isn't always possible. We do the best we can, and we do try to follow the policy.

We did make our primary two-deep (including women) immediately after this came out. 

Your previous comments have sugfested that due to your calling - Bishop - the policy does not apply to you. 

The policy applies to all equally, with the stated "should" which means it can not always happen

[cinepro]

My ward has implemented this.  I did notice a class from another ward on Sunday had the door propped open with a garbage can and just one teacher, so that might be the emergency fix if one of the teachers doesn't show up. 

When my son was a deacon, we had the opposite problem.  For some reason, we had an instructor, counselor from the Presidency, counselor from the Bishopric, Scoutmaster and asst. Scoutmaster (or two) there each week.  We usually didn't have even five deacons, and it was a small room, so the boys were outnumbered by adults.  It was my impression that most of the "input" for the lessons was coming from the adults and the boys just sat there quietly (and bored out of their minds).  We've since had a change in Bishops and YM Presidencies (and my son is no longer a deacon), so I don't know if this has continued.

Edited May 24, 2018 by cinepro