Scott Lloyd Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, 6EQUJ5 said: How did anyone manager before these devices were invented? As I remember it, Church services went along just fine. Sunday school and Priesthood had meetings. Relief Society seemed to be OK. The argument that you somehow need these things to attend Church is silly. There are an untold number of modern-day conveniences that we today have come to rely on that people in the past got by without. That doesn't mean their use should be forbidden. 2
hope_for_things Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Calm said: I am reading your comments the same way. Since others pointed out the problem, I didn't feel the need to say anything. You shouldn't assume just because one or two say something, only they see things that way, imo. Given people are often debating here and making comments in support of their arguments, I see just as much reason to assume they are making statements of fact when they are written as statements. I don't find opinions very persuasive so if that is all someone is using to present their case, I will not be even closed to convinced. Otoh, facts can persuade me. Fair enough Calm, but you shouldn't also assume that everyone who read my comments interpreted them the same way as you or kfisher did. So far, I now know of a few people who read them one way, but there are many others who may have read them differently that haven't commented. But I'll take that into account and try to more effectively communicate, always opportunities to improve. One thing I've learned for sure is that message board conversations are very challenging when it comes to getting a mutual understanding. Lastly, I too like to deal in facts where possible, but I've found that one person's fact is another person's fiction quite often and getting agreement on the facts is extremely challenging as I'm sure you know. Edited May 17, 2018 by hope_for_things
california boy Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: You are getting the wrong kind of inspiration then. You are missing out. I know right? And marijuana is already legal in my state. I should do something about that.
Calm Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: There are an untold number of modern-day conveniences that we today have come to rely on that people in the past got by without. That doesn't mean their use should be forbidden. Microphones, air conditioning, glass windows....
Calm Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 12 minutes ago, hope_for_things said: Fair enough Calm, but you shouldn't also assume that everyone who read my comments interpreted them the same way as you or kfisher did. Never do...generally I assume people don't understand things the way I do and it takes them saying stuff clearly that agrees with what I think for me to move to assuming they do, while always recognizing it is still an assumption.
Scott Lloyd Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 5 minutes ago, Calm said: Microphones, air conditioning, glass windows.... We still don't have air conditioning in our house. We get by with a swamp cooler. Much cheaper.
hope_for_things Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 20 minutes ago, Calm said: Never do...generally I assume people don't understand things the way I do and it takes them saying stuff clearly that agrees with what I think for me to move to assuming they do, while always recognizing it is still an assumption. Sound good, thanks
6EQUJ5 Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 16 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: There are an untold number of modern-day conveniences that we today have come to rely on that people in the past got by without. That doesn't mean their use should be forbidden. They should when they detract from the spirit of Church. By having those things at your fingertips, you are far less likely to actually pay attention to what's going on in sacrament meeting. I mean, you have a free hour to do all of your Church work! The point is, you don't need all of these materials at Church. And having them can only serve as a distraction.
6EQUJ5 Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 16 hours ago, Calm said: Microphones, air conditioning, glass windows.... Are you purposely missing the point? None of these things detract from sacrament meeting. Having an entire library of Church references and ward directories etc... only allows people to not pay attention in sacrament meeting.
ksfisher Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, 6EQUJ5 said: Are you purposely missing the point? None of these things detract from sacrament meeting. Having an entire library of Church references and ward directories etc... only allows people to not pay attention in sacrament meeting. Having a library of church references and ward directories etc...allows people to use them at the time and place they are needed. Edited May 18, 2018 by ksfisher 2
Scott Lloyd Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 2 hours ago, 6EQUJ5 said: They should when they detract from the spirit of Church. By having those things at your fingertips, you are far less likely to actually pay attention to what's going on in sacrament meeting. I mean, you have a free hour to do all of your Church work! The point is, you don't need all of these materials at Church. And having them can only serve as a distraction. How can you presume to make such a blanket generalization about whether people are or are not likely to be distracted in sacrament meeting by having resources available to them? And in any event, what business is it of yours whether they are thus vulnerable to distraction? With all due respect, you are reminding me more and more of the Church Lady.
The Nehor Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 21 hours ago, hope_for_things said: Not sure exactly what you mean by feeble guesswork designed to serve an agenda, as that's not what I said. But I imagine we're all serving an agenda to a certain extent. My comment was about the lack of diversity of thought and real engagement with alternative perspectives that challenge their orthodoxy. And I challenge that inane assertion as well which you present as if it is already proven.
hope_for_things Posted May 18, 2018 Posted May 18, 2018 19 minutes ago, The Nehor said: And I challenge that inane assertion as well which you present as if it is already proven.
The Nehor Posted May 19, 2018 Posted May 19, 2018 12 hours ago, hope_for_things said: But saying that is an absolute statement. Kenobi confessed to being a Sith.
Marginal Gains Posted May 19, 2018 Posted May 19, 2018 (edited) The Church, over the past few years, has invested quite a bit in shifting towards electronic access for handbooks, lesson manuals, magazines, hymns, lesson media materials, scriptures in multiple languages etc. It’s been a huge cost saving to the Church, not to mention a far superior delivery in terms of timeliness, widespread access across the membership, and change management. But hey, lets go backwards. Edited May 19, 2018 by Marginal Gains
sunstoned Posted May 20, 2018 Posted May 20, 2018 On 5/17/2018 at 3:18 PM, Calm said: Microphones, air conditioning, glass windows.... As a child I remember sacrament meeting in the afternoon without AC. The Deacons would stand by the door and hand out paper fans with pictures of the temples on them. The fans didn't help that much. It was hot. And this was in Northern Utah. I can't imagine what it was like in St. George or Southern Calif.
Scott Lloyd Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 UPDATE: Just watched President Nelson’s address to the youth. The purpose of handing out copies of “For the Strength of Youth” at the end of the meeting is so each recipient can give it to someone who doesn’t have a copy. What a great idea! 2
6EQUJ5 Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 18 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: UPDATE: Just watched President Nelson’s address to the youth. The purpose of handing out copies of “For the Strength of Youth” at the end of the meeting is so each recipient can give it to someone who doesn’t have a copy. What a great idea! I'm glad to see that President Nelson is promoting paper copies over digital versions. He could have easily instructed the youth to send their friend's links to the pamphlet or to the LDS app in the app store. That he went to extra trouble to print paper copies is instructive.
Scott Lloyd Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said: I'm glad to see that President Nelson is promoting paper copies over digital versions. He could have easily instructed the youth to send their friend's links to the pamphlet or to the LDS app in the app store. That he went to extra trouble to print paper copies is instructive. He didn’t say he was promoting paper copies over digital versions. There was not a word in what he did say to suggest that. Did you watch the meeting? Edited June 4, 2018 by Scott Lloyd
6EQUJ5 Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: He didn’t say he was promoting paper copies over digital versions. He didn't need to. His actions speak louder than any words. Imagine the time and expense they could have avoided by sending the youth to digital versions. Instead, they wanted to ensure the youth could share physical, printed copies.
Scott Lloyd Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 Just now, 6EQUJ5 said: He didn't need to. His actions speak louder than any words. Imagine the time and expense they could have avoided by sending the youth to digital versions. Instead, they wanted to ensure the youth could share physical, printed copies. You are incredible. 1
6EQUJ5 Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: You are incredible. Thanks, Scott.
Scott Lloyd Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said: Thanks, Scott. That was not a compliment.
bluebell Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 44 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said: He didn't need to. His actions speak louder than any words. Imagine the time and expense they could have avoided by sending the youth to digital versions. Instead, they wanted to ensure the youth could share physical, printed copies. Yes, he’s truly a monster, trying to share the gospel with youth everywhere. How could we have been so blind.
6EQUJ5 Posted June 4, 2018 Posted June 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, bluebell said: Yes, he’s truly a monster, trying to share the gospel with youth everywhere. How could we have been so blind. I don't think you understand my comments.
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