Marginal Gains Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, 6EQUJ5 said: Our ward banned the use of electronic devices during Sacrament Meeting a while back. Since then, other wards in our Stake have done the same. It is amazing how this simple policy has improved our sacrament meetings. How did your ward enforce the ban?
The Nehor Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, hope_for_things said: Correlated Mormonism across the board deserves an F grade for teaching correct principles. I will be sure to pass this on to them. I am sure there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth over your appraisal.
hope_for_things Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, The Nehor said: I will be sure to pass this on to them. I am sure there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth over your appraisal. Ehw... I don't want weeping and wailing and gnashing. What a waste. How about some inspiration instead!
Marginal Gains Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I will be sure to pass this on to them. I am sure there will be weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth over your appraisal. That suggests that you don’t think the Bretheren would benefit from member feedback. I disagree, they need more of it. 1
ksfisher Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 33 minutes ago, hope_for_things said: Of course its my opinion. Did you think I was speaking for someone else, or did you think I was being literal? I'm now picturing a group of people kneeling down in front of a shrine dedicated to the FSoY pamphet and offering up their devotions to the shrine. In a church of literalists, I guess I can never safely assume anything... Then just say it's your opinion instead of bringing literal language into it. If you have a position that's worth discussion just state it, you don't need to over emphasize what you're saying to make a point.
The Nehor Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 Just now, hope_for_things said: Ehw... I don't want weeping and wailing and gnashing. What a waste. How about some inspiration instead! To paraphrase Blackadder: ”I am not convinced you would know inspiration if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord singing: ‘Inspiration is here again.’” 1
The Nehor Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: That suggests that you don’t think the Bretheren would benefit from member feedback. I disagree, they need more of it. That suggests that the Brethren do not interact with the membership. I disagree, they spend plenty of time interacting with members. 1
Stargazer Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, hope_for_things said: No, no! Can you not see the difference between creating a detailed rule book with all kinds of prohibitions, and teaching principles? I just lost about 800 words of response to this due to the infamous 403 forbidden error, so consider yourself lucky. I shall summarize what I wrote as follows: For a few moments I had considered that your evaluation of that booklet might hold some water -- it seemed possible that it had been poorly and clumsily written. But I've never so much as cracked the covers on the booklet, so I thought I would have a peek. Having read it all the way through now, my assessment of your evaluation is that you don't know what the freaking heck you're talking about. For the Strength of Youth is NOT a detailed rule book with all kinds of prohibitions. It is a succinct, direct, well-written, understandable, forthright and well-thought-out laying out of VERY important principles that all youth (whether LDS or not) would do well to take to heart. Edited to add: And oh, yes. I also challenged you to write a better pamphlet. Edited May 17, 2018 by Stargazer 3
Stargazer Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, hope_for_things said: I don't know what device you own, but I have little switches on the sides of my Apple devices that allow me to put them in silent mode. Just a suggestion. Ironically, it was just while I was attempting to turn the speaker off that it sounded off! I probably should have done it while still in the car, but...
Stargazer Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: Does the Church still print up wallet- or purse-size cards that have a summary of the points in For the Strength of Youth? If so, that's an indication the Church authorities want the youth to have the booklet or a version thereof with them constantly for ready reference. Having it accessible on one's electronic device is one way to accomplish this. Well, yes, but one's battery might run out occasionally. Especially after an evening of heavy texting.
rongo Posted May 17, 2018 Author Posted May 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Stargazer said: I just lost about 800 words of response to this due to the infamous 403 forbidden error, so consider yourself lucky. I shall summarize what I wrote as follows: For a few moments I had considered that your evaluation of that booklet might hold some water -- it seemed possible that it had been poorly and clumsily written. But I've never so much as cracked the covers on the booklet, so I thought I would have a peek. Having read it all the way through now, my assessment of your evaluation is that you don't know what the freaking heck you're talking about. For the Strength of Youth is NOT a detailed rule book with all kinds of prohibitions. It is a succinct, direct, well-written, understandable, forthright and well-thought-out laying out of VERY important principles that all youth (whether LDS or not) would do well to take to heart. I actually have some on hand for students with sincere questions about LDS standards (questions that LDS teachers and students get all the time. There is a lot of interest in the why and the what among a lot of young people). I answer their questions, but I also sometimes offer them one that they can read themselves if they want to know more. Many students are interested or at least curious at most of the items in the table of contents. The Mormon Mystique is a good thing!
ksfisher Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, rongo said: Me? I've always been, and always will be a paper book guy. I can't even turn off a confiscated smart phone in class. If I was to bring everything I would need to church on a given Sunday it could include: The four standard works Handbook 1 Handbook 2 The gospel doctrine study guide The gospel principles book The youth sunday school lesson book The aaronic priesthood lesson book The young women's lesson book A copy of the conference issue of the Ensign The primary sharing time guide The primary songbook (because I don't sing the songs often enough anymore to have all of them memorized) If I was a bishop I could just keep copies of all this in my office. Thankfully that is not so. 😀 Otherwise I find it so much easier just to carry one ipad. Edited May 17, 2018 by ksfisher 1
hope_for_things Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 37 minutes ago, The Nehor said: To paraphrase Blackadder: ”I am not convinced you would know inspiration if it painted itself purple and danced naked on top of a harpsichord singing: ‘Inspiration is here again.’” I can only tell you what I find inspirational to me. I'm sure you may see things differently. But as I frequently tell my kids, you should give it a try first before telling me you don't like it.
Scott Lloyd Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 2 hours ago, Stargazer said: Last night I was late to a stake meeting where all the ward council members came together to counsel over the matter of ministering. I sat down and got out my tablet to take notes while the Stake President was talking, only to have the darned thing shout loudly "You have reached your destination!" (I'm new to the area and needed GPS to get me there) Everyone got a good laugh out of it. Except me, actually. Was rather embarrassed. And then, during the individual ward breakout, my phone decided to chime out with the same darned message! Again, while the SP was consulting with our bishop on what we were to discuss. I was using my phone's GPS to get there, but not the tablet's. But apparently the phone colluded with the tablet on the GPS thing. They're both Android and share my Google Maps account -- very sneaky . I was in a Church history seminar a few years ago. The scholar in front of the classroom was lecturing, and he mentioned the name of a figure from Church history. I forget who it was now, but let's say it was Newell Whitney. The scholar said, "A man by the name of Newell Whitney ..." Just then, Siri from someone's electronic device chimed in , "I'm sorry, I didn't get that." Without a moment's pause, the lecturer repeated with precision, "Newell Whitney." His timing was impeccable. Needless to say, the classroom erupted with hilarity.
hope_for_things Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 35 minutes ago, The Nehor said: That suggests that the Brethren do not interact with the membership. I disagree, they spend plenty of time interacting with members. The problem is the echo chamber that they operate in. We saw some of this with the leaked videos from a few years back. They receive a lot of confirming feedback, but rarely get anything challenging presented to their world view.
rongo Posted May 17, 2018 Author Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, ksfisher said: If I was to bring everything I would need to church on a given Sunday it could include: The four standard works Handbook 1 Handbook 2 The gospel doctrine study guide The gospel principles book The youth sunday school book The aaronic priesthood lesson book The young women's lesson book A copy of the conference issue of the Ensign The primary sharing time guide The primary songbook (because I don't sing the songs often enough anymore to have all of them memorized) If I was a bishop I could just keep copies of all this in my office. Thankfully that is not so. 😀 Otherwise I find it so much easier just to carry one ipad. I was just going to say . . . I keep all that stuff in my office, and in the clerk's office. I just have my extra big set of scriptures (I don't like the little tiny quads). Of course, there are no longer youth SS, YM, and YW manuals. I wish there were. We use them for Family Home Evening lessons all the time! Whole generations are missing out on some really good stories. I collected all of the old manuals when they were being thrown away, and we use them. They're also handy for when youth-taught lessons only last up to 10 minutes. You can have them find the same topic they're teaching, and bingo! More lesson ideas, right in your hands!
hope_for_things Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 22 minutes ago, Stargazer said: I just lost about 800 words of response to this due to the infamous 403 forbidden error, so consider yourself lucky. I shall summarize what I wrote as follows: For a few moments I had considered that your evaluation of that booklet might hold some water -- it seemed possible that it had been poorly and clumsily written. But I've never so much as cracked the covers on the booklet, so I thought I would have a peek. Having read it all the way through now, my assessment of your evaluation is that you don't know what the freaking heck you're talking about. For the Strength of Youth is NOT a detailed rule book with all kinds of prohibitions. It is a succinct, direct, well-written, understandable, forthright and well-thought-out laying out of VERY important principles that all youth (whether LDS or not) would do well to take to heart. Sorry to hear about the error, that is such a pain. We'll just have to differ on this one I guess. Yanny or Laurel? I hear it differently.
ksfisher Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 Just now, hope_for_things said: The problem is the echo chamber that they operate in. We saw some of this with the leaked videos from a few years back. They receive a lot of confirming feedback, but rarely get anything challenging presented to their world view. How do you know this? Are you privy to everything they see and hear? Are you with them when they visit members and have private interviews with them? Do you read all the correspondence that goes back and forth between local leaders and church headquarters? Are you with them when they kneel in prayer and receive guidance from the Spirit? Unless you are I really don't think you can have any idea of what they know and don't know. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 9 minutes ago, ksfisher said: If I was to bring everything I would need to church on a given Sunday it could include: The four standard works Handbook 1 Handbook 2 The gospel doctrine study guide The gospel principles book The youth sunday school lesson book The aaronic priesthood lesson book The young women's lesson book A copy of the conference issue of the Ensign The primary sharing time guide The primary songbook (because I don't sing the songs often enough anymore to have all of them memorized) If I was a bishop I could just keep copies of all this in my office. Thankfully that is not so. 😀 Otherwise I find it so much easier just to carry one ipad. To the above I would add the following: A copy of the hymnbook The ward and stake directory The ward and stake calendar My personal calendar and address book
ksfisher Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 3 minutes ago, rongo said: there are no longer youth SS, YM, and YW manuals Manual might not be the right word. Booklet or whatever you look in to find the lesson now. 5 minutes ago, rongo said: I keep all that stuff in my office, and in the clerk's office It is really handy to have everything at your fingertips, and not have to go back to an office to find a physical copy of a book. I like to have everything with me. I find that I'm much better at being a contributing member of a class (or leader visiting the class) if I can follow along with the teacher. Or at least have a general idea of where the lesson is going. I do have strict rule for myself. I don't use my ipad for anything in church that is not church related. While there are confidential text messages and emails on it, otherwise I don't have any problem with anyone looking at what I have on my ipad screen while at church. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 hour ago, hope_for_things said: There is a new trend in the church to elevate the For the Strength of Youth standards to something that should be applied to all members, not just the youth. I’ve experienced first hand and heard online from others that local wards have reviewed the For the Strength of Youth pamphlet and standards with the adults, explaining that it applies to them as well. In our Singapore stake, this was presented in a talk called “For the Strength of YOU.” I would be hard-pressed to think of any element in For the Strength of Youth that would not apply with equal validity to adults. I'm open to suggestions.
ksfisher Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: To the above I would add the following: A copy of the hymnbook The ward and stake directory The ward and stake calendar My personal calendar and address book I forgot all that stuff. I use the hymnbook on my ipad as I can adjust the text to the size I want. Otherwise I'd also have to carry reading glasses, and I'm not admitting yet that I'm that old.
hope_for_things Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 10 minutes ago, ksfisher said: How do you know this? Are you privy to everything they see and hear? Are you with them when they visit members and have private interviews with them? Do you read all the correspondence that goes back and forth between local leaders and church headquarters? Are you with them when they kneel in prayer and receive guidance from the Spirit? Unless you are I really don't think you can have any idea of what they know and don't know. This goes both ways ksfisher. How do you know I'm wrong? Are you privy to everything I see and hear, etc. Its my observation and interpretation of what I observe. I gave an example in my post of the leaked videos. I could give others, but why should I with your response crafted the way it is, so condescending.
rongo Posted May 17, 2018 Author Posted May 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: To the above I would add the following: A copy of the hymnbook They're already in the chapel, the gym, or the classroom (if needed). The ward and stake directory Ward directory, stapled and two-sided, is not heavy or bulky at all. Plus, you can write notes on it. I print out a new one each week and carry it with me. The ward and stake calendar I've never found that I've needed those right that second. Jot down a note, and check when able. My personal calendar and address book Again, either at home, in the office, etc. I've never found that I needed those right that second. Interesting, in light of this discussion. I met with my RS president last night (and primary, and YW, seperately). She's an *awesome* Samoan whose mother went to Cornell straight from the islands (very highly-motivated and driven. She has managed nutrition and health programs for the federal government for the South Pacific). She apologized for her handwritten papers (we were going over proposed ministering sisters and sisters, and she had many papers with intricate lists, diagrams, and notes), and I smiled and gestured to the papers on my desk. "I'm a paper guy, myself!" She was self-conscious about her voluminous notes, but I loved the thought and muscle memory that goes into that. I think there is a different wiring and memory dynamic between the paper readers/note-takers, and the type-it-into-devices types we are splitting into. To each his own.
Scott Lloyd Posted May 17, 2018 Posted May 17, 2018 1 minute ago, ksfisher said: I forgot all that stuff. I use the hymnbook on my ipad as I can adjust the text to the size I want. Otherwise I'd also have to carry reading glasses, and I'm not admitting yet that I'm that old. I have 20-20 vision, but I do need reading glasses. I solved my problem years ago by buying glasses with plano (normal) lenses and diopters (reading lenses) built in as bifocals. I just wear them all the time now; I don't have to keep taking them on and off. People just think I am wearing prescription glasses. I've never been able to find them at retail stores, but I purchase them online quite inexpensively. I'm afraid I lose them quite often, but they are so cheap it's not an issue.
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