Church Statement on Medical Marijuana

[bluebell]

52 minutes ago, california boy said:

Do you have any statics supporting your claims of prolific fraud?

Maybe the reason why law enforcement doesn’t challenge college students marijuana cards is that they rather see them in college rather than jail. 

Honest w=question. Do you think using weed is worse than using alcohol?

I don't necessarily think it was fraud-it was just that you could legitimately get a medical marijuana card for pretty much any ailment.  I really don't have a dog in this fight.  I don't care if marijuana is legal or not.  Use it for medical reasons or use it because you just want to get high, i don't care. 

I was simply speaking to the idea that medical marijuana use is tightly controlled.  It might be tightly controlled in some states but it's not in every state.

[california boy]

13 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I don't necessarily think it was fraud-it was just that you could legitimately get a medical marijuana card for pretty much any ailment.  I really don't have a dog in this fight.  I don't care if marijuana is legal or not.  Use it for medical reasons or use it because you just want to get high, i don't care. 

I was simply speaking to the idea that medical marijuana use is tightly controlled.  It might be tightly controlled in some states but it's not in every state.

I really don't have a dog in this fight either. Medical marijuana has been legal in California for well over a decade.  Thankfully I never needed the stuff.  I do believe marijuana has been demonized for decades in this country.  Most of what the government has said has been just scare tactics with little reality in actual facts.  Much of this has been traced back to William Randolph Hearst.  He owned vast amounts of timber land that he invested in to make paper.  Hemp was a much faster and cheaper product to use to make paper and was beginning to get a foothold in the paper industry.  Fearing that trend would weaken his investment, he started a campaign against the evil weed.  Any story that had an auto accident, he would add a sentence that "It is suspected marijuana was involved."  Any violence that occurred, he would add a sentence that"marijuan was suspected as being the cause of the violence.?  You get the idea.  He was on a mission to not allow hemp to take over the paper industry and he had his newspapers to spread the smear campaign.  You tell a story long enough and it becomes true.  Here is an article that talks about this. 

Knowing the background of how marijuana got so demonized, I tend to question statements like yours that you don't back up with actual facts.  Do some people get a prescription that don't actually need one?  Of course.  That is true with any drug.  Is it rampant as you insinuate?  I have seen no evidence to support that.  Is medical marijuana a tightly controlled substance?  I don't think so either.  The question is, should it be so tightly controlled that those with real medical problems can not legally get the drug they so desperately need. Instead they are legally prescribed opioids that are far more dangerous and addictive.  No one has ever died of an overdose of marijuana.  Should it be a schedule 1 drug?  NO.  And the fact that it is tells a lot about the hysteria surrounding this drug.

[flameburns623]

From my news feed. My VA doctor mentioned this as a growing problem:

Gleanings From Todays Newspapers: Ditch Privacy, Pot, And Posture Problems

 APRIL 10, 2018 BY CHRISTY THOMAS

And finally, just because it is legal in some states, doesn’t mean it is healthy for you. From the saga of one young man’s pain journey:

He often stayed in the shower for hours at a time and could be in and out of the shower for days.

When the hot water ran out, “the pain was unbearable, like somebody was wringing my stomach out like a washcloth,” said the 28-year-old, who works as a production and shipping assistant and lives outside Chicago.

It was nearly 10 years until a doctor finally convinced him the diagnosis was cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome, a condition that causes cyclic vomiting in heavy marijuana users and can be cured by quitting marijuana.

 

Apparently, it is not uncommon. Kind of like horrific hangovers after a binge-drinking bout. Folks, the human body really prefers to be treated better than this. Over anything (food, water, exercise, drink, drugs, TV, video games, sloth, work) will eventually take its toll.

Not exactly rocket science here, but way too many can’t seem to grasp this basic concept. Perhaps it demands too much “adulting.”

Read more at http://www.patheos.com/blogs/thoughtfulpastor/2018/04/10/gleanings-newspapers-ditch-privacy-pot-posture-problems/#uZFCwb3hB5mi8ojC.99

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, california boy said:

I really don't have a dog in this fight either. Medical marijuana has been legal in California for well over a decade.  Thankfully I never needed the stuff.  I do believe marijuana has been demonized for decades in this country.  Most of what the government has said has been just scare tactics with little reality in actual facts.  Much of this has been traced back to William Randolph Hearst.  He owned vast amounts of timber land that he invested in to make paper.  Hemp was a much faster and cheaper product to use to make paper and was beginning to get a foothold in the paper industry.  Fearing that trend would weaken his investment, he started a campaign against the evil weed.  Any story that had an auto accident, he would add a sentence that "It is suspected marijuana was involved."  Any violence that occurred, he would add a sentence that"marijuan was suspected as being the cause of the violence.?  You get the idea.  He was on a mission to not allow hemp to take over the paper industry and he had his newspapers to spread the smear campaign.  You tell a story long enough and it becomes true.  Here is an article that talks about this. 

Knowing the background of how marijuana got so demonized, I tend to question statements like yours that you don't back up with actual facts.  Do some people get a prescription that don't actually need one?  Of course.  That is true with any drug.  Is it rampant as you insinuate?  I have seen no evidence to support that.  Is medical marijuana a tightly controlled substance?  I don't think so either.  The question is, should it be so tightly controlled that those with real medical problems can not legally get the drug they so desperately need. Instead they are legally prescribed opioids that are far more dangerous and addictive.  No one has ever died of an overdose of marijuana.  Should it be a schedule 1 drug?  NO.  And the fact that it is tells a lot about the hysteria surrounding this drug.

Take my statements for what they are, anecdotal from when I lived in Montana.  We moved out of state in 2012 but still visit often as we have family there.  For those interested, here's a good article on the history of legalized marijuana in the state.

[Calm]

7 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I'm sorry Calm. I cannot go quite that far. As you of all people know, drugs have side affects. It is not sin to refuse drugs. Even relatively benign drugs can have bad side effects. I for one am not ready to start condemning people for refusing medical help. That is always the individual right of a patient.

From personal experience I know that I can get cranky and unpleasant when I am in severe pain, but I will insist on full control of how I treat that pain, and what if any drugs I take. I too do not want to be a burden on others - I make every effort to acknowledge my weakness, but have traditionally resisted narcotic use. I acknowledge some people can be a pain in the rear, but if they choose to refuse treatment, hopefully they will learn to choose a good attitude with that first choice. I am not willing to forego my freedom for fear they won't choose well.

I should have been more precise...when treatment is refused solely because someone wants to be tough or is embarrassed to appear weak and their issues are significant enough to have an ongoing negative impact on others, that is a problem in my view and attitudes that Mormons should be tougher or more resilent because of their faith plays into shame for turning to medications when they are needed.  

If they have researched the treatment and believe the cost of side effects or even finances is too high for the benefit, that is a different issue altogether in my view as is those who misuse prescription drugs to get the high, etc.

I am probably oversensitive to this as my dad died because he and mom were too embarrassed or inconvenienced to ask for help, were proud they were handling it themselves (pretty much the first thing Mom said to me was how she had kept up with it until the last hour when she couldn't wash the towels and sheets fast enough).  He got severely dehydrated from over 12 hours of vomiting and diarrhea, damaged all his major organs, went into a coma and died after being taken off life support.  They were living in assisted living at the time and all that would have been needed is to pull a cord in the bathroom...in fact my mom would have had to pull it that morning to give an okay or they would have showed up.  She didn't call until noon because she didn't want to disturb us at church.

I grew up being told to grit my teeth through pain in order to grow.  My brother was praised for walking home silently on a broken leg rather than screaming in pain for attention from the neighbours or sending someone home for help.  The real effect I saw time after time was my family not getting help until significant damage was done.  Saw this happen in a lot of other families as well, in and out of the Church.

Edited April 16, 2018 by Calm

[Bernard Gui]

6 hours ago, phaedrus ut said:

Topical creams can be effective but the difference is that they can't use the body's endocannabinoid system to reduce pain and inflammation. 

By golly, it may be as good as sage brush!

 

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, bluebell said:

I don't necessarily think it was fraud-it was just that you could legitimately get a medical marijuana card for pretty much any ailment.

Is that because it can cure any and all ailments, as many claim?

[rongo]

28 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Is that because it can cure any and all ailments, as many claim?

No, I think it's because medical marijuana is a thinly-veiled intermediate step to recreational marijuana. Since they're just going through the motions with the "competent medical advice," no real effort is made to make it a rigorous doctor's prescription. Obtaining a "medical marijuana card" is included to give the appearance that there is some sort of screening process, but in practice, most applicants are approved (it would be interesting to see the breakdown of applicants who are denied compared to approved). The "prescription from competent medical professionals" priviso is a wink and a nod. Like you indicated, you can get marijuana cards from the smoke shops that sell the hookahs and the weed and the zigzag paper. 

Edited April 16, 2018 by rongo

[Bernard Gui]

47 minutes ago, rongo said:

No, I think it's because medical marijuana is a thinly-veiled intermediate step to recreational marijuana. Since they're just going through the motions with the "competent medical advice," no real effort is made to make it a rigorous doctor's prescription. Obtaining a "medical marijuana card" is included to give the appearance that there is some sort of screening process, but in practice, most applicants are approved (it would be interesting to see the breakdown of applicants who are denied compared to approved). The "prescription from competent medical professionals" priviso is a wink and a nod. Like you indicated, you can get marijuana cards from the smoke shops that sell the hookahs and the weed and the zigzag paper. 

I agree that it is a ruse to legalize “recreational” use. My anecdotal experience with “recreational” users has been pretty negative.

[Calm]

There may be a significant percentage, maybe even a majority who see medical marijuana as solely as a step towards recreational, but that ignores a substantial percentage of the population who want to see it available for medical purposes, especially to make it easier to research.

If you don't want your concerns for its abuse to be ignored, it is probably a good idea not to ignore those who have no intention to use it recreationally, but believe it will be very usefully medically.

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Is that because it can cure any and all ailments, as many claim?

I think it may have been because a lot of doctors saw no real medical harm in it and if it helped someone feel better (placebo or real) then ok. 

It was a money maker as well. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

 Since they're just going through the motions with the "competent medical advice," no real effort is made to make it a rigorous doctor's prescription. Obtaining a "medical marijuana card" is included to give the appearance that there is some sort of screening process, but in practice, most applicants are approved (it would be interesting to see the breakdown of applicants who are denied compared to approved). The "prescription from competent medical professionals" priviso is a wink and a nod. Like you indicated, you can get marijuana cards from the smoke shops that sell the hookahs and the weed and the zigzag paper. 

CFR this is true for all states where it is legal.

Here is a place to start...a state by state description of medical marijuana laws:

https://healthcare.findlaw.com/patient-rights/medical-marijuana-laws-by-state.html

Connecticut appears to have a decent program, state dispensaries and out of state patients are not eligible, they have probably around 25,000 (out of a population of 3.5 million)  in the whole state using it at this time.

https://ctmirror.org/2017/06/14/18000-now-use-medical-marijuana-in-ct/

Percentage of population by state that has medical marijuana usages:

https://www.mpp.org/issues/medical-marijuana/state-by-state-medical-marijuana-laws/medical-marijuana-patient-numbers/

Percentages range from .13 to 3.15, so I think opinion of the programs probably are highly dependent on what state one lives in.

Montana is on the high end, 2.08% for bluebell's info.

Here is the state by state alcohol consumption rate for comparison, if anyone is curious:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/442848/per-capita-alcohol-consumption-of-all-beverages-in-the-us-by-state/

Edited April 17, 2018 by Calm

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

CFR this is true for all states where it is legal.

Here is a place to start...a state by state description of medical marijuana laws:

https://healthcare.findlaw.com/patient-rights/medical-marijuana-laws-by-state.html

Connecticut appears to have a decent program, state dispensaries and out of state patients are not eligible, they have probably around 25,000 (out of a population of 3.5 million)  in the whole state using it at this time.

https://ctmirror.org/2017/06/14/18000-now-use-medical-marijuana-in-ct/

Percentage of population by state that has medical marijuana usages:

https://www.mpp.org/issues/medical-marijuana/state-by-state-medical-marijuana-laws/medical-marijuana-patient-numbers/

Percentages range from .13 to 3.15, so I think opinion of the programs probably are highly dependent on what state one lives in.

Montana is on the high end, 2.08% for bluebell's info.

Here is the state by state alcohol consumption rate for comparison, if anyone is curious:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/442848/per-capita-alcohol-consumption-of-all-beverages-in-the-us-by-state/

I think in a few years, the kinks will hopefully be worked out. And it will be a safe option for many, but like any drug, it must be used responsibly. 

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I think in a few years, the kinks will hopefully be worked out. And it will be a safe option for many, but like any drug, it must be used responsibly. 

U nfortunately, I don't see it as being able to be walked back easily.  Those states that have made access easy are unlikely to remove access unless it is found the MJ is dangerous.  If it is no more dangerous than alcohol, I don't see it as likely to be changed to less lenient.

[california boy]

3 hours ago, rongo said:

No, I think it's because medical marijuana is a thinly-veiled intermediate step to recreational marijuana. Since they're just going through the motions with the "competent medical advice," no real effort is made to make it a rigorous doctor's prescription. Obtaining a "medical marijuana card" is included to give the appearance that there is some sort of screening process, but in practice, most applicants are approved (it would be interesting to see the breakdown of applicants who are denied compared to approved). The "prescription from competent medical professionals" priviso is a wink and a nod. Like you indicated, you can get marijuana cards from the smoke shops that sell the hookahs and the weed and the zigzag paper. 

I think in some cases this is true.  But even if it is true, would you rather a person who wants to use marijuana get it from a state controlled dispensary or a dealer on the street?  people that want to use marijuana will use it whether it is legal or not.  

[Bernard Gui]

4 hours ago, california boy said:

But even if it is true, would you rather a person who wants to use marijuana get it from a state controlled dispensary or a dealer on the street?

Washington black market moves on. All you have to do is undercut the shop prices.

[Marginal Gains]

5 hours ago, california boy said:

I think in some cases this is true.  But even if it is true, would you rather a person who wants to use marijuana get it from a state controlled dispensary or a dealer on the street?  people that want to use marijuana will use it whether it is legal or not.  

The Church that promotes healing the sick through oil and prayer, weighs in against medicinal marijuana...meanwhile...back at the ranch...

https://www.opidemic.org/

Edited April 17, 2018 by Marginal Gains

[Stargazer]

4 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

The Church that promotes healing the sick through oil and prayer, weighs in against medicinal marijuana...meanwhile...back at the ranch...

https://www.opidemic.org/

The church that promotes healing the sick through oil and prayer would probably like you to examine whether prayer and oil has ever had negative medical side effects.  The church that promotes healing the sick through oil and prayer also urges you to get medical treatment through professionals.  

Meanwhile, back on the ranch, you're going to weigh in against being concerned that medical marijuana is a scam to get high legally?

I see it as a legitimate question, even though I voted in favor of legalizing marijuana in Washington state, and believe that marijuana does have a legitimate medical role, though one which is not thoroughly investigated yet.  I also don't believe MJ should be a schedule I controlled substance.  In fact, I would be happy if they just controlled it to the same extent as tobacco.

But I still think the church has the right to question it.

[phaedrus ut]

I agree with Bluebell that in a lot of states the "medicinal" prescription is pretty much a sham. There is the old joke that you can get a prescription for stress and they reason you're stressed is because you're out of weed.

But on a bigger issue I think we are allowing harm by keeping it from some patients.  I personally know of two people that regularly travel to Colorado. One is for his wife who had chronic pain and moving from opioids  to marijuana has given her better pain relief, a better quality of life, with much less side effects and risk of addiction.  The second is one that uses a specific strain to control her epilepsy and again for her it works better than other drugs with less negative heath effects.  

In the interest of full disclosure I occasionally consume marijuana for non medicinal reasons. 

Phaedrus 

 

[Tacenda]

19 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

By golly, it may be as good as sage brush!

 

https://medicalmarijuana.procon.org/view.timeline.php?timelineID=000026

Do you think this article may change your mind that cannibus is as good as sage brush? It's probably just a little bit better, haha!

[Jeanne]

On 4/13/2018 at 5:33 PM, Duncan said:

 

My concern is seizure patients.  My sister in law has tried everything...can't drive or do much for fear of seizures.  My brother has already taken her to a place in Mexico that might help.  If the church could okay this..it would go a long ways into what you would accept ..she has stayed away from cannibus because of the church.  What kind of life are both of them not having because it is not allowed in Utah?

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, phaedrus ut said:

I agree with Bluebell that in a lot of states the "medicinal" prescription is pretty much a sham. There is the old joke that you can get a prescription for stress and they reason you're stressed is because you're out of weed.

But on a bigger issue I think we are allowing harm by keeping it from some patients.  I personally know of two people that regularly travel to Colorado. One is for his wife who had chronic pain and moving from opioids  to marijuana has given her better pain relief, a better quality of life, with much less side effects and risk of addiction.  The second is one that uses a specific strain to control her epilepsy and again for her it works better than other drugs with less negative heath effects.  

In the interest of full disclosure I occasionally consume marijuana for non medicinal reasons. 

Phaedrus 

 

I remember reading about James E. Talmage studying the affects of cannibus. Here's a portion of the article found here: http://signaturebookslibrary.org/essential-james-e-talmage-03/

Essential James E. Talmage
James P. Harris, editor

Chapter 3
“The Effects of Narcotics upon the System”
(Entries from the Journal of James E. Talmage, while at Johns Hopkins University, 1884,
Archives and Manuscripts, Harold B. Lee Library, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah)

[p.10]March 17—I have been engaged some time in the study of the effects of Narcotics upon the system, i.e. studying the same theoretically only. Today I found a gentleman who works in the same Laboratory as I, and who has for 2 years been addicted to the habit of eating Hashish or extract of Cannabis Indica. He was very willing to give me any data from his own experience; and gave me such.

March 18—My Hashish eating friend gave me further details at odd times today. Three of us in the University have entered upon the study of the Narcotics in use.

March 21—The result of our work in research upon Narcotics has been tolerably satisfactory. We utilize my friend referred to above, with his Hashish eating experience—and find four or five others whom he knows have also an experience upon the subject. But the effects experienced by the different ones are so widely different that we can scarcely draw a conclusion. The opium habit is well explained by books, and the bad after effects of the same are sufficiently appalling to keep down experimentation upon the subject. But, the ill effects are reported very low in the Hashish or Hemp administration; and we have concluded to try effect of small dose upon ourselves.

Of course, such a course is the proper one for the study of the effects of the drug, though I very much disliked the idea of doing such a thing, for as yet I have never known what it is to be narcotized either by tobacco, alcohol, or any drug…

March 22—This being Saturday, was the day I selected to study practically the effects of Hashish. This evening, after work and all was over, I took at 3 doses each an hour after the preceding, 5 grains solid extract Cannabis Indica. At this writing—midnight—5 hours since last dose, I have experienced no effect whatever. The effect is said to be widely different in different people.

[p.11]March 23—Sunday. Spent quietly. Have had no result to be noted of my physiological experiment yesterday.

I do not feel inclined to try again till the end of next week—as the realization of the effects of the drug are not desirable on working days.

April 5—This evening—first opportunity which has presented itself—I attempted my experiment on the effects of Hashish as referred to March 22 (page 26). Took in all 15 grains. No effects.

April 6. Sunday … Continued my experiment by taking 20 grains Cannabis Indica and the effect was felt in a not very agreeable way. My fellow experimenters & I concluded I should take no larger dose—but perhaps vary the trial in the future…

Essential James E. Talmage – 04

Me: I think if James had an ailment at the beginning maybe his findings would be different, but think it's interesting that he studied this even way back when. Also, I read of a few US presidents such as George Washington, grew cannibus. My link of cannibus in history is eye opening. 

I need to emphasis, I don't like recreational use, but I'm not willing to take it away as long as someone isn't driving while under the influence etc. Or in any way able to harm anyone through work or play. 

 

Edited April 17, 2018 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

Monday I went in for some lab work to see how my thyroid was doing since taking myself off of my meds, Levothyroxine, because I was worried that I was playing with fire if I didn't take it. I quit because it had side affects and the one that really hurt was panic attacks on the freeway. I had them for a few years and had read that the meds I was on could cause them. So I decided to quit mine and rely on my CBD/THC oil to help with it, I have read that it helps. 

Lo and behold, I was ready to ask the doctor to put me on something natural such as Nature Throid. He said he could do that, if my levels say I need it. Come Wednesday the nurse called and told me my levels were within the normal range and I can put off taking anything for my hypothyroidism. Just a couple of months ago, the levels weren't terrible but still showed I needed something and before that it was much worse. So in my mind and heart, I believe it was because of the CBD oil! 

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Monday I went in for some lab work to see how my thyroid was doing since taking myself off of my meds, Levothyroxine, because I was worried that I was playing with fire if I didn't take it. I quit because it had side affects and the one that really hurt was panic attacks on the freeway. I had them for a few years and had read that the meds I was on could cause them. So I decided to quit mine and rely on my CBD/THC oil to help with it, I have read that it helps. 

Lo and behold, I was ready to ask the doctor to put me on something natural such as Nature Throid. He said he could do that, if my levels say I need it. Come Wednesday the nurse called and told me my levels were within the normal range and I can put off taking anything for my hypothyroidism. Just a couple of months ago, the levels weren't terrible but still showed I needed something and before that it was much worse. So in my mind and heart, I believe it was because of the CBD oil! 

I just hope you will be okay Tacenda...you seem to know the right thing to do.  Gut feelings are good  Take care..!

[Kenngo1969]

On 4/16/2018 at 7:12 PM, Calm said:

U nfortunately, I don't see it as being able to be walked back easily.  Those states that have made access easy are unlikely to remove access unless it is found the MJ is dangerous.  If it is no more dangerous than alcohol, I don't see it as likely to be changed to less lenient.

For all of the protestations that marijuana is relatively harmless, comparisons of dangerousness between marijuana and alcohol are difficult. Of course, every state has a Blood Alcohol Content threshold at or above which it becomes unsafe and therefore illegal for one who has consumed alcohol to operate a motor vehicle.  It is well-known how such factors as age, weight, tolerance, accompanying food consumption, and so on affect those who consume alcohol and how those factors interact with alcohol consumption to affect the safe operation of motor vehicles.  Not so with marijuana.  

We have a pretty good idea how much alcohol is in most 12-oz. beers, in a glass of wine, in a shot of hard liquor, and so forth, and how consumption of alcohol will affect the consumer based on criteria previously mentioned, but the content and effect of tetrahydrocannibinol (now you know why they call it "THC"  ... and if you want to get really technical about it, I believe the hypertechnical chemical term is Delta-4-THC) in marijuana is a different matter: It can vary from area to area, from plant to plant, and so on, and its effects are far less predictable, varying not only from person to person, but also from use to use by the same person.  There really is no way to establish a threshold for marijuana use above which operation of a motor vehicle is unsafe, as has been done for alcohol.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Kenngo1969