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Church Statement on Medical Marijuana

smac97

By smac97
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Calm Grand Master

Calm

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Well, there’s the problem with “medical” marijuana in a nutshell. Nobody knows evpxactly what is going on. Until then, caution is warranted.

And how is that different than much of medicine these days, especially if focusis mental health?...took two years of 6 week intervals including one year adding a helper drug that did nothing for my daughter.  Turned to ECT and 6 weeks later she may not be "normal" but she is outof the black.  Two years of wondering if we would find her dead or just wanting to die every morning and the last year was pretty much a solid wall of the later, with no breaks.  

My disorder is probably ten, 15, maybe even 20 years ahead of its natural progression (my older siblings have minor signs) because the doctors gave me well approved tested meds that had nothing to do with my problem simply because the pharmas stated their drugs could be used off label for pretty much any sleep issues.  So so safe.  These drugs kicked it into overdrive.  Never has a doctor check back in a week or two or 3 months to in order to see if there were issues.  They don't want to know about any problem unless it is unbearable.  Perfectly comfortable handing out drugs that have warnings for increased suicide risk without any automatic feedback system in place?

Otoh, going by anecdotal mj could have helped with sleep issues without aggravating the underlying movement/neurological disorder.  I would have known quickly and no long term aggravation I am living with now.  If doctors had been honest and said nothing we can give you can help much and it is going to cause long term problems...yeah, doctors putting effort into finding something that might work rather than taking the newestfree samples from the salesman..that would have been a sight to see.   I would have gone without the drugs and did for most of my life, but every drug I tried for even a month left its mark on me.  No warning about those types of risks.  No concern to even find out why I stopped taking a drug, they don't want to hear they got it wrong.  They want to pretend it resolved the issue.

 Instead I was the one who had to find out what was wrong with me by typing to the computer the symptoms I had been telling them for decades and I found it in about 15 minutes.  If doctors had bothered to listen, bothered to do research rather than just pretend I had depression even when I told them I was quite happy, just exhausted...if they bothered to ask me about my sleep habits rather than just grab the latest antidepressant...where was the caution and attention from the conservative doctors in those kinds of cases...and it is thousands of them given in detail on the rls sites, same story...until the drug companies looked at rls as a new use for their drugs and suddenly every doctor was talking about it and dumping out the drugs at ten times the needed dose because they would look at the Parkinson's dosing  drugs.  Got to wonder if that killed my dad because it screwed with his ability to make good decisions like refusing to go to the hospital.  It certainly made every night hell for him, just because he trusted the doctor to spend 5 minutes to look up the correct dose.

More than likely I will be in an early grave because of high sounding medical caution and lack there of, because even though there was a drug available with few side effects and my disorder had a good record with addiction, Canada refused to prescribe it and instead bought into Pharmacy's story that they had the perfect drug which each time one went generic, they reformulated into something even better and more expensive..better that is.at making the disorder tons worse after a few months on it, permanent worse after years.  They ensured they had patients for life rather than spending that money looking for a cure.

Opiod addiction is horrendous, but misprescribing drugs that don't really work or have horrible side effects for a large part of the users and often have minimal positive impact has it own equally costly dangers:

"Every year, misprescribing drugs wastes tens of billions of dollars. These drugs are barely affordable to the people who must pay for their prescriptions out of their own pocket. However, the more serious consequence is that a minimum of 1.5 million people are hospitalized every year due to complications caused by medications that should never have been prescribed to them. Misprescribing drugs is also the cause of roughly 100,000 deaths every year."

https://edrugsearch.com/seven-common-deadly-dangers-of-misprescribing-drugs/

otoh:

"In 2015, more than 33,000 Americans died as a result of an opioid overdose, including prescription opioids, heroin, and illicitly manufactured fentanyl, a powerful synthetic opioid."

https://www.dea.gov/druginfo/drug_data_sheets/Marijuana.pdf

"No death from overdose of marijuana has been reported"

Back to my life story....I got the latest and greatest from Big Pharmacy, tons of free samples at your doctor's, help with a discount plan if don't have insurance, and for a couple a hundred every month, I got a drug that had me writhing in pain, using canes, with projectile vomiting and I put on 75 lbs in 7 months total due to compulsive eating on two of the drugs...other side effects migraines, depression on top of it, dizziness, blurry eye vision...combine that with family history of heart disease...and all the time when thedocs said "we have tried everything"... I knew there was a drug that could work at a minimal dose with zip side effects for me and a very well known history for any long term effect.  Thankfully we moved to Utah when I couldn't take it any more and for some reason, they are not only willing to prescribe it, but keep a very close eye on me so if I had been tempted to push for a higher dose, they would have been right on me, finding out why.

sure, it takes lots more work for doctors to keep track of abuse and overuse...but they should be putting that effort into all the drugs considering there are at least twice as many deaths and possibly three times if they are not counting the opioids into the above 100,000 deaths.  Andit is a huge hit to the economy.  Insurance companies need to figure out preventative will be cheaper in the long run.

The whole system needs an overhaul, but since that would likely mean less drugs over all, Pharma can't be too excited about it.  Insurance companies have made so many hoops for doctors to jump through already...doctors don't have time to do it on their own.

If I saw intelligent caution rather than fear based coming from the doctors in general and government and saw that caution as consistent and appropriate for all drugs rather than practically absent when it comes to drugs that are dangerous long term, I might be impressed by current  lectures for caution.  At this point for me they ring completely hollow.

Edited by Calm
4
Tacenda Grand Master

Tacenda

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Calm said:

And how is that different than much of medicine these days, especially if focusis mental health?...took two years of 6 week intervals including one year adding a helper drug that did nothing for my daughter.  Turned to ECT and 6 weeks later she may not be "normal" but she is outof the black.  Two years of wondering if we would find her dead or just wanting to die every morning and the last year was pretty much a solid wall of the later, with no breaks.  

My disorder is probably ten, 15, maybe even 20 years ahead of its natural progression (my older siblings have minor signs) because the doctors gave me well approved tested meds that had nothing to do with my problem simply because the pharmas stated their drugs could be used off label for pretty much any sleep issues.  So so safe.  These drugs kicked it into overdrive.  Never has a doctor check back in a week or two or 3 months to in order to see if there were issues.  They don't want to know about any problem unless it is unbearable.  Perfectly comfortable handing out drugs that have warnings for increased suicide risk without any automatic feedback system in place?

Otoh, going by anecdotal mj could have helped with sleep issues without aggravating the underlying movement/neurological disorder.  I would have known quickly and no long term aggravation I am living with now.  If doctors had been honest and said nothing we can give you can help much and it is going to cause long term problems...yeah, doctors putting effort into finding something that might work rather than taking the newestfree samples from the salesman..that would have been a sight to see.   I would have gone without the drugs and did for most of my life, but every drug I tried for even a month left its mark on me.  No warning about those types of risks.  No concern to even find out why I stopped taking a drug, they don't want to hear they got it wrong.  They want to pretend it resolved the issue.

 Instead I was the one who had to find out what was wrong with me by typing to the computer the symptoms I had been telling them for decades and I found it in about 15 minutes.  If doctors had bothered to listen, bothered to do research rather than just pretend I had depression even when I told them I was quite happy, just exhausted...if they bothered to ask me about my sleep habits rather than just grab the latest antidepressant...where was the caution and attention from the conservative doctors in those kinds of cases...and it is thousands of them given in detail on the rls sites, same story...until the drug companies looked at rls as a new use for their drugs and suddenly every doctor was talking about it and dumping out the drugs at ten times the needed dose because they would look at the Parkinson's dosing  drugs.  Got to wonder if that killed my dad because it screwed with his ability to make good decisions like refusing to go to the hospital.  It certainly made every night hell for him, just because he trusted the doctor to spend 5 minutes to look up the correct dose.

More than likely I will be in an early grave because of high sounding medical caution and lack there of, because even though there was a drug available with few side effects and my disorder had a good record with addiction, Canada refused to prescribe it and instead bought into Pharmacy's story that they had the perfect drug which each time one went generic, they reformulated into something even better and more expensive..better that is.at making the disorder tons worse after a few months on it, permanent worse after years.  They ensured they had patients for life rather than spending that money looking for a cure.

Opiod addiction is horrendous, but misprescribing drugs that don't really work or have horrible side effects for a large part of the users and often have minimal positive impact has it own equally costly dangers:

"Every year, misprescribing drugs wastes tens of billions of dollars. These drugs are barely affordable to the people who must pay for their prescriptions out of their own pocket. However, the more serious consequence is that a minimum of 1.5 million people are hospitalized every year due to complications caused by medications that should never have been prescribed to them. Misprescribing drugs is also the cause of roughly 100,000 deaths every year."

https://edrugsearch.com/seven-common-deadly-dangers-of-misprescribing-drugs/

otoh:

"In 2015, more than 33,000 Americans died as a result of an opioid overdose, including prescription opioids, heroin, and illicitly manufactured fentanyl, a powerful synthetic opioid."

https://www.dea.gov/druginfo/drug_data_sheets/Marijuana.pdf

"No death from overdose of marijuana has been reported"

Back to my life story....I got the latest and greatest from Big Pharmacy, tons of free samples at your doctor's, help with a discount plan if don't have insurance, and for a couple a hundred every month, I got a drug that had me writhing in pain, using canes, with projectile vomiting and I put on 75 lbs in 7 months total due to compulsive eating on two of the drugs...other side effects migraines, depression on top of it, dizziness, blurry eye vision...combine that with family history of heart disease...and all the time when thedocs said "we have tried everything"... I knew there was a drug that could work at a minimal dose with zip side effects for me and a very well known history for any long term effect.  Thankfully we moved to Utah when I couldn't take it any more and for some reason, they are not only willing to prescribe it, but keep a very close eye on me so if I had been tempted to push for a higher dose, they would have been right on me, finding out why.

sure, it takes lots more work for doctors to keep track of abuse and overuse...but they should be putting that effort into all the drugs considering there are at least twice as many deaths and possibly three times if they are not counting the opioids into the above 100,000 deaths.  Andit is a huge hit to the economy.  Insurance companies need to figure out preventative will be cheaper in the long run.

The whole system needs an overhaul, but since that would likely mean less drugs over all, Pharma can't be too excited about it.  Insurance companies have made so many hoops for doctors to jump through already...doctors don't have time to do it on their own.

If I saw intelligent caution rather than fear based coming from the doctors in general and government and saw that caution as consistent and appropriate for all drugs rather than practically absent when it comes to drugs that are dangerous long term, I might be impressed by current  lectures for caution.  At this point for me they ring completely hollow.

I've had some UTI problems in the past and was prescribed antibiotics over and over again. Not once did a doctor suggest a more natural less harmful way to treat it. But the last one I got, I'd had enough and searched for other ways to treat it and found D'mannose was the trick. I ran out and bought it before going to the doctor, and within a few hours it was gone. Now I just take a daily tablet for preventative purposes. 

Calm, I'm sorry you've had to suffer so.. :(  

Marginal Gains Experienced

Marginal Gains

Posted
Posted

Why, in its statement against medicinal marijuana, didn’t the Church offer the alternative of prescription Priesthood Blessings? Or at least promote the fact that members of the Church have access to Priesthood Blessings as an alternative to medicinal marijuana?

provoman Veteran

provoman

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said:

Why, in its statement against medicinal marijuana, didn’t the Church offer the alternative of prescription Priesthood Blessings? Or at least promote the fact that members of the Church have access to Priesthood Blessings as an alternative to medicinal marijuana?

Why does this question of yours seem to be lacking in sincerity?

1
RevTestament Grand Master

RevTestament

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, Exiled said:

I think its more of a psychological addiction but can be an addiction nonetheless for some. My understanding is that it doesn't cause the withdrawal symptoms that opiates do. Perhaps under medical supervision, it could be useful.

I've never been a marijuana user so can't testify from direct personal experience, but I do know people who use, and I knew them before they used. They functioned fairly normally in society. After they began to use marijuana, they say they cannot function without it, despite the fact that they did before. Two I particularly have in mind think of it, and promote it as medicine, and of course want it to be approved at least as medical marijuana. However, if I were a medical doctor I would have to say I have observed no measurable improvement with their use of marijuana. Rather, in at least one I've heard of extreme bouts of anger, I never observed before his use. I have to conclude that at least for them there is no objective medical benefit, but there does seem to be psychological addiction at the least. They have to get that fix everyday or they become upset, and other worse things.

I am not saying there is no medical benefit to marijuana, I think it does dull pain, and parts of it have been shown to help seizures, etc, but from my observations it does have addictive properties. even if the physical addiction is minor or nonexistent. 

Should it be legalized? I am personally not against government controls on addictive substances. To the extent that marijuana is shown to be addictive, I think the public may benefit from its control. All addictive substances seem to have their downsides. People can hurt others by driving while under the influence and other things, so it does seem there is a place for at least some controls on marijuana. Hopefully, the people will choose wisely despite massive moves to "legalize" it. Closely studying "test markets" like Colorado should prove informative. 

1
Exiled Mentor

Exiled

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

I've never been a marijuana user so can't testify from direct personal experience, but I do know people who use, and I knew them before they used. They functioned fairly normally in society. After they began to use marijuana, they say they cannot function without it, despite the fact that they did before. Two I particularly have in mind think of it, and promote it as medicine, and of course want it to be approved at least as medical marijuana. However, if I were a medical doctor I would have to say I have observed no measurable improvement with their use of marijuana. Rather, in at least one I've heard of extreme bouts of anger, I never observed before his use. I have to conclude that at least for them there is no objective medical benefit, but there does seem to be psychological addiction at the least. They have to get that fix everyday or they become upset, and other worse things.

I am not saying there is no medical benefit to marijuana, I think it does dull pain, and parts of it have been shown to help seizures, etc, but from my observations it does have addictive properties. even if the physical addiction is minor or nonexistent. 

Should it be legalized? I am personally not against government controls on addictive substances. To the extent that marijuana is shown to be addictive, I think the public may benefit from its control. All addictive substances seem to have their downsides. People can hurt others by driving while under the influence and other things, so it does seem there is a place for at least some controls on marijuana. Hopefully, the people will choose wisely despite massive moves to "legalize" it. Closely studying "test markets" like Colorado should prove informative. 

I don't know of anyone who gets upset or has tantrums when they can't use marijuana.  I think the psychological addiction is akin to how some are addicted to certain ice cream or chocolate and the like.  Also, I am unaware of any scientific literature showing the addiction for those who are, is anything more than this.  Whereas, opiates are incredibly addictive and can kill.  One doesn't die from a marijuana overdose but someone in the world just overdosed on opiates and more will do so throughout today and every day.

rongo Grand Master

rongo

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Exiled said:

I don't know of anyone who gets upset or has tantrums when they can't use marijuana.  I think the psychological addiction is akin to how some are addicted to certain ice cream or chocolate and the like.  Also, I am unaware of any scientific literature showing the addiction for those who are, is anything more than this.  

I agree that the addiction is primarily psychological rather than physical, but there is a physical component as well (like with nicotine). 

It is definitely stronger than just being "addicted" to ice cream flavors. It is more like cigarette smokers trying to quit: possible, but difficult. Those of us who know marijuana smokers know that their attachment to marijuana is stronger than "not being able to stop eating Rocky Road."

Gray Grand Master

Gray

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Sure. They govern medical ethics and professional medical guidelines in Utah... :) 

Their name implies they're a private association of physicians. How would they govern those things?

RevTestament Grand Master

RevTestament

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, Gray said:

Their name implies they're a private association of physicians. How would they govern those things?

"The Utah Medical Association is recognized by the Accreditation Council for Continuing Medical Education (ACCME) as the accrediting body for hospitals, specialty societies, and other medical organizations in the state of Utah that offer programs of continuing medical education. This accrediting function is carried out by the Utah Medical Association’s Accreditation Committee."

Exiled Mentor

Exiled

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, rongo said:

I agree that the addiction is primarily psychological rather than physical, but there is a physical component as well (like with nicotine). 

It is definitely stronger than just being "addicted" to ice cream flavors. It is more like cigarette smokers trying to quit: possible, but difficult. Those of us who know marijuana smokers know that their attachment to marijuana is stronger than "not being able to stop eating Rocky Road."

I think the nicotine comparison doesn't hold up as a really high percentage gets addicted to nicotine buy I don't see the same thing with marijuana.  Anecdotally, I know of many that use marijuana infrequently and don't get addicted.  I also know of some who used to use marijuana daily for years and then stop all of a sudden for some reason or another without the intense withdrawals one sees with nicotine.  However, if you are aware of any studies on marijuana addiction that say otherwise, I am interested to know.  Also, are you aware of any studies regarding productivity before and after in Colorado or Washington?  I wonder how legalization affects productivity in those states, if at all.  My marijuana using acquaintances weren't the most productive and it seems that this would be an area of concern.

Gray Grand Master

Gray

Posted
Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

"The Utah Medical Association is recognized by the Accreditation Council for Continuing Medical Education (ACCME) as the accrediting body for hospitals, specialty societies, and other medical organizations in the state of Utah that offer programs of continuing medical education. This accrediting function is carried out by the Utah Medical Association’s Accreditation Committee."

Accrediting bodies don't govern other healthcare organizations. Healthcare providers can follow an association's guidelines and get their accreditation, or not. For example, a lot of hospitals have Magnet status. Hospitals don't HAVE to have it (most do not), but if they follow the Magnet standards for nursing, they can earn accreditation.

 

By the way, I'm not ignoring your question in the other thread - I have to find a chunk of time to sit down and answer it. :)

Edited by Gray
Bernard Gui Grand Master

Bernard Gui

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Calm said:

And how is that different than much of medicine these days, especially if focusis mental health?...took two years of 6 week intervals including one year adding a helper drug that did nothing for my daughter.  Turned to ECT and 6 weeks later she may not be "normal" but she is outof the black.  Two years of wondering if we would find her dead or just wanting to die every morning and the last year was pretty much a solid wall of the later, with no breaks.  

My disorder is probably ten, 15, maybe even 20 years ahead of its natural progression (my older siblings have minor signs) because the doctors gave me well approved tested meds that had nothing to do with my problem simply because the pharmas stated their drugs could be used off label for pretty much any sleep issues.  So so safe.  These drugs kicked it into overdrive.  Never has a doctor check back in a week or two or 3 months to in order to see if there were issues.  They don't want to know about any problem unless it is unbearable.  Perfectly comfortable handing out drugs that have warnings for increased suicide risk without any automatic feedback system in place?

Otoh, going by anecdotal mj could have helped with sleep issues without aggravating the underlying movement/neurological disorder.  I would have known quickly and no long term aggravation I am living with now.  If doctors had been honest and said nothing we can give you can help much and it is going to cause long term problems...yeah, doctors putting effort into finding something that might work rather than taking the newestfree samples from the salesman..that would have been a sight to see.   I would have gone without the drugs and did for most of my life, but every drug I tried for even a month left its mark on me.  No warning about those types of risks.  No concern to even find out why I stopped taking a drug, they don't want to hear they got it wrong.  They want to pretend it resolved the issue.

 Instead I was the one who had to find out what was wrong with me by typing to the computer the symptoms I had been telling them for decades and I found it in about 15 minutes.  If doctors had bothered to listen, bothered to do research rather than just pretend I had depression even when I told them I was quite happy, just exhausted...if they bothered to ask me about my sleep habits rather than just grab the latest antidepressant...where was the caution and attention from the conservative doctors in those kinds of cases...and it is thousands of them given in detail on the rls sites, same story...until the drug companies looked at rls as a new use for their drugs and suddenly every doctor was talking about it and dumping out the drugs at ten times the needed dose because they would look at the Parkinson's dosing  drugs.  Got to wonder if that killed my dad because it screwed with his ability to make good decisions like refusing to go to the hospital.  It certainly made every night hell for him, just because he trusted the doctor to spend 5 minutes to look up the correct dose.

More than likely I will be in an early grave because of high sounding medical caution and lack there of, because even though there was a drug available with few side effects and my disorder had a good record with addiction, Canada refused to prescribe it and instead bought into Pharmacy's story that they had the perfect drug which each time one went generic, they reformulated into something even better and more expensive..better that is.at making the disorder tons worse after a few months on it, permanent worse after years.  They ensured they had patients for life rather than spending that money looking for a cure.

Opiod addiction is horrendous, but misprescribing drugs that don't really work or have horrible side effects for a large part of the users and often have minimal positive impact has it own equally costly dangers:

"Every year, misprescribing drugs wastes tens of billions of dollars. These drugs are barely affordable to the people who must pay for their prescriptions out of their own pocket. However, the more serious consequence is that a minimum of 1.5 million people are hospitalized every year due to complications caused by medications that should never have been prescribed to them. Misprescribing drugs is also the cause of roughly 100,000 deaths every year."

https://edrugsearch.com/seven-common-deadly-dangers-of-misprescribing-drugs/

otoh:

"In 2015, more than 33,000 Americans died as a result of an opioid overdose, including prescription opioids, heroin, and illicitly manufactured fentanyl, a powerful synthetic opioid."

https://www.dea.gov/druginfo/drug_data_sheets/Marijuana.pdf

"No death from overdose of marijuana has been reported"

Back to my life story....I got the latest and greatest from Big Pharmacy, tons of free samples at your doctor's, help with a discount plan if don't have insurance, and for a couple a hundred every month, I got a drug that had me writhing in pain, using canes, with projectile vomiting and I put on 75 lbs in 7 months total due to compulsive eating on two of the drugs...other side effects migraines, depression on top of it, dizziness, blurry eye vision...combine that with family history of heart disease...and all the time when thedocs said "we have tried everything"... I knew there was a drug that could work at a minimal dose with zip side effects for me and a very well known history for any long term effect.  Thankfully we moved to Utah when I couldn't take it any more and for some reason, they are not only willing to prescribe it, but keep a very close eye on me so if I had been tempted to push for a higher dose, they would have been right on me, finding out why.

sure, it takes lots more work for doctors to keep track of abuse and overuse...but they should be putting that effort into all the drugs considering there are at least twice as many deaths and possibly three times if they are not counting the opioids into the above 100,000 deaths.  Andit is a huge hit to the economy.  Insurance companies need to figure out preventative will be cheaper in the long run.

The whole system needs an overhaul, but since that would likely mean less drugs over all, Pharma can't be too excited about it.  Insurance companies have made so many hoops for doctors to jump through already...doctors don't have time to do it on their own.

If I saw intelligent caution rather than fear based coming from the doctors in general and government and saw that caution as consistent and appropriate for all drugs rather than practically absent when it comes to drugs that are dangerous long term, I might be impressed by current  lectures for caution.  At this point for me they ring completely hollow.

I hope everything works out for you and your family. Good health is such an under appreciated blessing that we don’t usually recognize until it’s not there. 

I’ve tried all the herbals and anecdotal, and internet cures for cluster headaches and the degenerative arthritis in both hands  (making it painful and difficult to play the violin.). No help there.

On the other hand, prescribed medicines have cured me of several serious problems while others have had some value or none. It’s an emotional issue, especially when our loved ones are involved. For the women in our family, I am grateful for thyroid medication. For our one who insists on herbals, she’s not doing so well. 

Edited by Bernard Gui
rongo Grand Master

rongo

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Exiled said:

I think the nicotine comparison doesn't hold up as a really high percentage gets addicted to nicotine buy I don't see the same thing with marijuana.  Anecdotally, I know of many that use marijuana infrequently and don't get addicted.  I also know of some who used to use marijuana daily for years and then stop all of a sudden for some reason or another without the intense withdrawals one sees with nicotine.  However, if you are aware of any studies on marijuana addiction that say otherwise, I am interested to know.  Also, are you aware of any studies regarding productivity before and after in Colorado or Washington?  I wonder how legalization affects productivity in those states, if at all.  My marijuana using acquaintances weren't the most productive and it seems that this would be an area of concern.

Malcolm Gladwell has a good section in his book "Tipping Point" dealing with smoking. He coins the term "chippers" for people who smoke, but don't hit the threshold where they are hooked. There are definitely "chippers" among cigarette smokers, just like there are those who have smoked for long periods of time and quit cold turkey. I definitely think that the same is true of marijuana smokers, but there are also "hooked" smokers just like with tobacco. 

I agree with you anecdotally about productivity of marijuana smokers. The reality is that most marijuana smokers, addicted or not, smoke it because they like to feel stoned, and they don't want to never do it again because they want to feel stoned again. 

I'm sure that pro/con supporters from the various states (Elder Schweizer and Elder Clayton put the number of states that allow medical marijuana at 26. Or 29) on this can amass a wealth of data and talking points in favor and contra. I honestly think that what this comes down to is "old-fashioned" people, like me, who can't be persuaded, versus "modern" people who think marijuana (even recreational) is really not a big deal. I think this is ultimately where people end up sorting themselves into the two camps, regardless of their arguments. 

Bernard Gui Grand Master

Bernard Gui

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I've never been a marijuana user so can't testify from direct personal experience, but I do know people who use, and I knew them before they used. They functioned fairly normally in society. After they began to use marijuana, they say they cannot function without it, despite the fact that they did before. Two I particularly have in mind think of it, and promote it as medicine, and of course want it to be approved at least as medical marijuana. However, if I were a medical doctor I would have to say I have observed no measurable improvement with their use of marijuana. Rather, in at least one I've heard of extreme bouts of anger, I never observed before his use. I have to conclude that at least for them there is no objective medical benefit, but there does seem to be psychological addiction at the least. They have to get that fix everyday or they become upset, and other worse things.

I am not saying there is no medical benefit to marijuana, I think it does dull pain, and parts of it have been shown to help seizures, etc, but from my observations it does have addictive properties. even if the physical addiction is minor or nonexistent. 

Should it be legalized? I am personally not against government controls on addictive substances. To the extent that marijuana is shown to be addictive, I think the public may benefit from its control. All addictive substances seem to have their downsides. People can hurt others by driving while under the influence and other things, so it does seem there is a place for at least some controls on marijuana. Hopefully, the people will choose wisely despite massive moves to "legalize" it. Closely studying "test markets" like Colorado should prove informative. 

We have several immediate family members who abuse or have abused marijuana since their teens, one claiming it his only remedy for anxiety and panic attacks. I have personally witnessed that despite what he believes, it actually makes it worse. Some others use  for various reasons. If we’re going to go on personal anecdotal evidence, mine is that it is harmful, decreases brain function, is in some cases addictive, and without question a gateway to stronger addictive substances for some people. 

As a school orchestra teacher for 42 years, I worked closely with most of my students from 4th through 12th grades. I got to know them pretty well. I often came to recognize two milestones in their lives....when they started to smoke weed and when they started having sex. Sometimes the changes were subtle, but sometimes they were dramatic.

Edited by Bernard Gui
1
Tacenda Grand Master

Tacenda

Posted
Posted (edited)

https://www.marijuanamoment.net/heres-where-you-can-tell-trump-to-support-marijuana-rescheduling/

If anyone is interested on getting the affects of cannibus tested, would you please share and participate. This is pres. Trump asking for this, good for him

ETA: I'm not for recreational use at all. I agree, a lot of users want to legalize it for recreational use. But when you think about it, should we then say no alcohol and cigarettes? I hope beyond hope that people will see the affects for medicinal purposes only, and that includes a huge range of things, such as depression, anxiety etc. I believe cannibus is better than some prescription pills. 

It also helps alcoholics with stopping alcohol too. So many good things to it, but understand it's not 100% perfect either. 

Edited by Tacenda
Tacenda Grand Master

Tacenda

Posted
Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

We have several immediate family members who abuse or have abused marijuana since their teens, one claiming it his only remedy for anxiety and panic attacks. I have personally witnessed that despite what he believes, it actually makes it worse. Some others use  for various reasons. If we’re going to go on personal anecdotal evidence, mine is that it is harmful, decreases brain function, is in some cases addictive, and without question a gateway to stronger addictive substances for some people. 

As a school orchestra teacher for 42 years, I worked closely with most of my students from 4th through 12th grades. I got to know them pretty well. I often came to recognize two milestones in their lives....when they started to smoke weed and when they started having sex. Sometimes the changes were subtle, but sometimes they were dramatic.

I agree to this. My issue is with those that have diseases that it has been shown to help. I belong to a private FB group that discuss all the time the miracles it produces. Too bad that a good thing can also be a bad thing depending on it's use. The oil, IMO, is a good way to go, no high at all as long as you use it appropriately in the right dosage. Hoping this all gets sorted out soon. ETA: I need to emphasis that I take the oil that has THC in it, so if it had no THC there would be no high whatsoever, or at least I think that's the case. But it may have maybe 1% or less of it. 

Edited by Tacenda
RevTestament Grand Master

RevTestament

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

I hope everything works out for you and your family. Good health is such an under appreciated blessing that we don’t usually recognize until it’s not there. 

I’ve tried all the herbals and anecdotal, and internet cures for cluster headaches and the degenerative arthritis in both hands  (making it painful and difficult to play the violin.). No help there.

On the other hand, prescribed medicines have cured me of several serious problems while others have had some value or none. It’s an emotional issue, especially when our loved ones are involved. For the women in our family, I am grateful for thyroid medication. For our one who insists on herbals, she’s not doing so well. 

Could you perhaps travel to Canada and get the implant there?  If I had cluster headaches, I would certainly be very tempted. 

I have a relative (in-law) who has 3 kinds of arthritis - it is extremely debilitating to him. I've read anecdotal reports of vast improvement by preparing bone broth, and drinking it. It is also supposed to be very healthy for the skin. My wife has recently begun a ketogenic plan with bone broth. We fry with coconut oil, eat nuts and seeds like sunflower seeds, & non-starchy vegetables like broccoli, cauliflower, asparagus, brussels sprouts, greens, etc. I have seen her improving. She has multiple issues of auto-immune disorders - first and foremost she has Hashimoto's thyroid disease. She has become somewhat gluten sensitive, has general exhaustion and low energy, and thinks she has symptoms of leaky gut. Her family has a history of diabetes. I too plan to cut back on  breads. I have gained lots of weight over the last year, and suspect starches such as bagels, crackers and corn chips, I didn't used to eat much of. I soundly believe that most of America's degenerative diseases can be "cured" or at least improved with the right food habits.

Edited by RevTestament
1
Jeanne Grand Master

Jeanne

Posted
Posted
16 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Well the church's backlash, I've read, actually helped legalize gay marriage, so here's hoping for it to do the same for medical cannibus! I use the oil and put a few drops under my tongue on a nightly basis. I say let the cops come and get me, I don't care! I'm taking my health in my own hands by hopefully preventing Alzheimer's and treating my Thyroid and Post Menopausal symptoms. 

Now would actually be the time to separate the church from state.  Gosh..whatever happened to that???

RevTestament Grand Master

RevTestament

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I agree to this. My issue is with those that have diseases that it has been shown to help. I belong to a private FB group that discuss all the time the miracles it produces. Too bad that a good thing can also be a bad thing depending on it's use. The oil, IMO, is a good way to go, no high at all as long as you use it appropriately in the right dosage. Hoping this all gets sorted out soon.

Almost everything good, can also be used for bad. Sexual drive, TV, internet, prescription drugs, etc, etc. I am all for legal extracts of MJ which have been shown to have objective medical benefits being available at least by prescription. Most extracts won't have the ability to make one high, and will probably prove to be non-addictive. Most "medical MJ" I have heard about, however, has plenty of THC. That is what has the major mood altering impact and seems to be able to block pain. So this is becoming touted as medical marijuana despite the fact that traditionally "medical marijuana" was high in CBD and low in THC. Over the last 4 decades strains of MJ have been developed with very high levels of THC - much higher than was commonly available in the 70s. If you are not smoking it though, you are probably not going to get much "high." It is burning it which makes THC so bio-available to the brain. So in oils you probably aren't going to have much THC anyway - why "waste" those strains on oil when it can be sold at a premium for smoking? So, you are right. There are appropriate ways to use it, and I am not against those, and hope they help those that need it. My personal opinion is though, that most of the market will be driven by those who want the high from THC. This is usually not going to be a true medical use but a recreational one. For those with severe chronic pain, the narcotic pain killers are usually supposed to preclude them from driving anyway just like I think THC use should. Just like the Bible denounces drunkenness though, I think the Lord thinks poorly of chronic "highness" - maybe it's because He is the Most High ;) 

1
RevTestament Grand Master

RevTestament

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

We have several immediate family members who abuse or have abused marijuana since their teens, one claiming it his only remedy for anxiety and panic attacks. I have personally witnessed that despite what he believes, it actually makes it worse. Some others use  for various reasons. If we’re going to go on personal anecdotal evidence, mine is that it is harmful, decreases brain function, is in some cases addictive, and without question a gateway to stronger addictive substances for some people. 

As a school orchestra teacher for 42 years, I worked closely with most of my students from 4th through 12th grades. I got to know them pretty well. I often came to recognize two milestones in their lives....when they started to smoke weed and when they started having sex. Sometimes the changes were subtle, but sometimes they were dramatic.

I think you have touched on two major destructive forces on the traditional family there Bernard. Drugs and premarital sex. It is very sad to have witnessed what has happened to the family in America, and I am sure you agree that these two have had a major impact. I have to agree on your assessment of the vast majority of anecdotal evidence. I haven't seen any benefit to what I consider to be recreational use of MJ. I do believe components of MJ have beneficial medical uses, but I am just concerned about "medical marijuana" becoming accepted as that with high amounts of THC and being smoked for every perceived ailment. I see that as the trend which is occurring, and it disturbs me. No one I know who chronically smokes MJ has a happy married life. I am sure there are exceptions, but we are talking anecdotal evidence. While I am a classic libertarian at heart and don't like the government encroaching on our freedoms, I also don't want people driving stoned on our roads, going to work stoned. etc. Those are scary thoughts, and places where I do welcome governmental controls since they impact the rights of others. Except for in cases of chronic pain and valid medical benefit, I personally think society is better off without THC MJ use.

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