smac97 Posted April 11, 2018 Author Share Posted April 11, 2018 15 minutes ago, provoman said: UMA is medical, let them stick to medical things. The use of marijuana seems to fall fairly squarely within their wheelhouse. 15 minutes ago, provoman said: Considering the unfounded/unsourced non-medical claims the UMA needs to provide evidence rather than hide behind medical degrees I think the statement was not intended to be exhaustive or definitive. Meanwhile, I question what the pro-legalization folks have been relying on. A medical association relying on the collective expertise of its leaders and members makes a lot of sense to me. An advocacy group that has a very likely financial interest in the outcome of a ballot initiative, but has no particular training in the medical aspect of marijuana use, is relying on...what? 2 Link to comment
kllindley Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 12 minutes ago, smac97 said: I don't know why they opposed it. Did they put out a statement? Where is that statement? What is their stated basis for opposing that prior initiative? Quoting Doug Rice: Quote UMA, the group that claims to be largest representative of medical doctors in Utah, apparently has no interest in patient well-being. Rather, it protects the pharmaceutical lobbyists that poured money into the pockets of doctors, pharmacists, and legislators writing bills to regulate the Utah cannabis industry. As president of Epilepsy Association of Utah I don't find this surprising, since UMA opposed Charlee's Law in 2014. Charlee's Law gave access to CBD, the non-psychoactive component of cannabis, for Utah's epilepsy patients. UMA opposed Charlee's Law but agreed not to say so publicly, after receiving pressure from Utah legislators backing the bill. UMA has not met with a single patients group regarding cannabis legalization. It seems they would rather force regulation on patients, for a medical treatment that has killed no one in over 6000 years of human use. It's interesting that UMA points an accusing finger at "big cannabis" as the money behind the Utah Medical Cannabis Initiative. And yet, the legislators pushing for regulation (and their close friends) are positioning themselves to profit from legalization. 2 Link to comment
Calm Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Quote Americans for Safe Access (#ASA) has prepared an 187 PAGE report evaluating every aspect of every state's laws - and if you dig in you'll see it shows that the UMCI program will clearly be among the least expansive - in hundreds of ways. Meanwhile, after four years of waiting on the legislature to come up with a plan to meet patients' needs, Utah is still one of 16 states receiving a grade of F (see page 141). This track record doesn't exactly engender trust that elected officials are likely to get anywhere soon left to their own devices ... and gives telling context to Rep. Brad Daw's claim that with his "right to try if you promise to die" law that Utah is now somehow "in the happy middle." http://truceutah.org/fbfeed/ 1 Link to comment
Calm Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Top donors are listed on the ballotpedia link I put up: Quote Marijuana Policy Project $75,000.00 $34,616.09 $109,616.09 Libertas Institute $100,000.00 $0.00 $100,000.00 Our Story $75,000.00 $0.00 $75,000.00 Pass the Balanced Budget Amendment $49,000.00 $0.00 $49,000.00 Linda Fontenot $20,000.00 $0.00 $20,000.00 I have no clue about the background, but someone can check to see if it is "BIG Cannabis" backing it. 1 Link to comment
strappinglad Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Canada is well on its way to legalizing MJ. Provinces are busy working on regulations for cannabis use , particularly in the workplace . So far there appears to be a tendency toward zero tolerance . The problem is a lack of good reliable quick tests for impairment for use by law enforcement for roadside testing etc. Knowing politicians, they will thoroughly study all the possible solutions... and then pick the one that does the most damage to the most people for the longest time. The Utah laws and ballots have not disabused me of that opinion. 1 Link to comment
Tacenda Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 http://kutv.com/news/local/doctor-lds-church-given-bad-advice-about-medical-marijuana This is telling, he knows many doctors that approve of medical use of cannibus. Link to comment
kllindley Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 10 minutes ago, Tacenda said: http://kutv.com/news/local/doctor-lds-church-given-bad-advice-about-medical-marijuana This is telling, he knows many doctors that approve of medical use of cannibus. Thank you for this Link to comment
The Nehor Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 3 hours ago, rongo said: Sure, the Church could also be stronger on opioids. My wife's surgeon got mad at her after she was put back together after her ileostomy and colostomy because she wouldn't take her oxycodone. She was afraid of becoming addicted. We certainly do have too many LDS who are addicted or who take too many opioids for too long. I know people with debilitating pain who manage with ibuprofen. Not saying I begrudge it where really needed, but I think the Church should certainly address the opioid epidemic, too. I have marijuana addicts in my ward who get upset at the claim that "marijuans isn't addictive." They sorely want to be free from their addiction, and haven't been able to stop. Marijuana creates very little physical addiction but that part of addiction is often the easiest to break. Link to comment
The Nehor Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) I am in the “sure, whatever” camp. I do have concerns at how ridiculously easy it can be to get a prescription but if we are going to crack down there our main goal should be the much more dangerous excessive opioid disbursement. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/welcome-williamson-w-va-where-there-are-6-500-opioid-n843821 Edited April 11, 2018 by The Nehor 3 Link to comment
Calm Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Tacenda said: http://kutv.com/news/local/doctor-lds-church-given-bad-advice-about-medical-marijuana This is telling, he knows many doctors that approve of medical use of cannibus. And many don't... I am not surprised the conservatives are apparently currently in control of the UMA. I appreciate he said they got bad advice rather than blaming Church leaders. The problem is knowing who are the moderate experts in this. Edited April 11, 2018 by Calm Link to comment
flameburns623 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 7 hours ago, Ginger Snaps said: I'm in N. CA where there are dispensaries on nearly every corner. My husband is a bishop and has strict instructions from the Stake Pres. that anyone using marijuana, even with a 215 card (they're not technically prescriptions. I can't remember the right term for them) may not have a temple recommend. How would the bishop know? It's not one of the standard TR questions. If the member, in good conscience, felt they were using MM appropriately and as prescribed, for bona fide medical purposes, why would they volunteer the info? Does the prudent and appropriate use of prescription Oxycontin cause the loss of a TR? 3 Link to comment
Marginal Gains Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 The First Presidency releases a statement on medical marijuana... 1. What has this got to do with them? 2. It’s interesting how the Church fluctuates between releasing ‘First Presidency’ statements and ‘A Spokesperson On Behalf Of The Church’. Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 11 hours ago, smac97 said: Although UMA supports the use of FDA‐approved cannabis‐based medicines, this initiative is not about medicine. Supporters have used images and stories of suffering patients to disguise their true aim: opening another market for their products and paving the way for recreational use of marijuana in Utah. This is precisely what happened in our state (Washington). It was all pretense for recreational use using pseudo-scientific and emotional anecdotal appeals. Utah and other states take heed. Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, Prof said: The extract of the plant has been used effectively in eye drop form for people with glaucoma. Not sure how many drops need to be applied. [Emphasis added] Well, there’s the problem with “medical” marijuana in a nutshell. Nobody knows evpxactly what is going on. Until thethey do, caution is warranted. Edited April 11, 2018 by Bernard Gui Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 8 hours ago, rongo said: I have marijuana addicts in my ward who get upset at the claim that "marijuans isn't addictive." They sorely want to be free from their addiction, and haven't been able to stop. If it is non-addictive, stop using it for 30 days and see how things turn out. Link to comment
jbarm Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 Yes, what we need is another drug that is approved based upon anectdotal empiricism. Just like all of those magical mlm-based miracle cures like essential oils and the fruit of the noni plant. Double blind scientific studies are so tiresome when you can instead cite your cousins miraculous cure of diabetes or scabies with your favorite exotic substance. There can't be any negative consequences of using a natural herb, right? I'm for real scientific reasearch on medical MJ use, but MJ referendums are really just driven by the recreational MJ lobby. 1 Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 7 hours ago, smac97 said: problem use, known as a marijuana use disorder, which takes the form of addiction in severe cases. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. Alcohol use disorder, which takes the form of addiction in severe cases...amphetimine use disorder which....tobacco use disorder which....meth use disorder which....barbiturate use disorder which...opioid use disorder which...pcp use disorder which.....propellant use disorder which....pornography use disorder which...take the form of addiction in severe cases..... What an odd world we live in. Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Calm said: This statement refers to allowing dispensary staff to describe the products they have on hand. In that context, we’re ranking it as GOSPEL TRUTH. What other “medicine” is given this kind of uncontrolled latitude? Edited April 11, 2018 by Bernard Gui Link to comment
Calm Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said: This is precisely what happened in our state (Washington). It was all pretense for recreational use using pseudo-scientific and emotional anecdotal appeals. Utah and other states take heed. What were the groups behind it? Link to comment
Calm Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: What other “medicine” is given this kind of uncontrolled latitude? I can go onto any pharmacy and ask them to describe any product. Link to comment
flameburns623 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 There is a Catch-22 here: the best medical research is done under FDA auspices. But with marijuana listed as a Schedule 1 drug, such research cannot move forward. 4 Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, smac97 said: How legitimate, in your minds, is the concern that the ballot initiative is a smokescreen? That the professed concern for those coping with pain-management issues is a pretext? That the initiative is intended to be a stepping stone toward legalizing recreational use? The UMA statement really hits this hard. Thanks, -Smac Those are “duh!” questions in Washington. The evidence is the utter lack of regulation in content, production, prescribing, dosing, and dispensing “medical” marijuana. If it is truly medicine, treat it like one. I am blessed with “cluster headaches.” No known cause, relief, or cure. Even had one while under morphine for an emergency room visit for another medical problem. There is an electronic implant available in Europe and Canada that gives immediate relief with 0 known side effects, but it is not FDA approved in the US so you can’t get it done here until it has been tested and shown to be effective and safe. That’s what regulation means. That is what must be done with pot. Edited April 11, 2018 by Bernard Gui Link to comment
Calm Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 32 minutes ago, jbarm said: but MJ referendums are really just driven by the recreational MJ lobby. CFR please. I have posted the top 5 donors above, could you identify which are recreational MJ lobby? And explain why. Thank you. 1 Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Calm said: What were the groups behind it? Here is a good summary if you are interested.....you would have to know Washington politics for any of it to make sense. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Initiative_502 For example, the Pierce County Council recently allowed a man to convert a residence less than a quarter mile from our home to be converted into a pot growing, processing, and distribution facility. It is across the street from a youth athletic facility and borders land owned by the school district for a future elementary school. It will have high barbed wire fences, 16 security cameras, security lighting, and other measures to keep the bad guys from breaking in to get their week’s supply of jollies. Dozens of neighbors showed up at the hearings to protest granting the permit, but it was clear the decision had already been made and our objections were not going to be considered. Who know what strings were being pulled? Edited April 11, 2018 by Bernard Gui Link to comment
Bernard Gui Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 33 minutes ago, Calm said: I can go onto any pharmacy and ask them to describe any product. Are you saying your pharmacist can prescribe medicine for you? I must have misunderstood. My pharmacist just described for me the latest shingles vaccine that has become available with all the specifics. I have to sign a waiver I read if I want to obtain it. How does the local pot dispensary dude or dudette know precisely what conditions of dosage, frequency of use, efficacy, side effects, etc. each particular bud has? (In accepted medical terminology and referring to specific reputable scientific information on the ailment it is supposed to treat). Link to comment
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