Marginal Gains Posted April 24, 2018 Posted April 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: Marriage isn't simply about what happens in mortality, particularly not for the religiously deout, Marginal Gains ... not, of course, that I would expect someone operating from a purely humanistic perspective to understand that. You don’t get to decide what non Mormons think marriage is or isn’t. Some believe it’s “Till death do us part”. And if it isn’t simply about mortality, then you are still a believing polygamist.
cacheman Posted April 24, 2018 Posted April 24, 2018 4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: So the fetus didn't choose the abortion, that's why innocent third parties are relevant when it comes to abortion, but all of the sudden become irrelevant with respect to drug use? Why? Again, for libertarianism to work, you have to posit a vacuum (one that seals a person off from the rest of humanity who allegedly makes choices which affect only himself) which doesn't exist. No one's life is his or her own. One's choice to use drugs (or any of myriad similar choices) never affects only himself. Those adversely affected by one's choice to use drugs (and no matter who he is, there are always such third parties) didn't choose the negative consequences which are bound to befall them either. I don't believe that Libertarianism requires what you think it does. It's possible to have minimal state intervention, but still enforce laws which protect people from being harmed by others. If 'drugs' were legalized or even decriminalized.... there's no reason why crimes or harm done under the influence or due to 'drug' use couldn't be punished. If that was the case, then society would need to determine what level of harm or potential harm should incur penalties. One's choice to do just about anything has the potential to affect others. If I eat too much junk food I might die at an earlier age. If I play video games all day, I might neglect my family or my job. If I purchase a shirt at Walmart, I might indirectly be supporting child labor....etc. What matters is the degree of harm or potential harm that society will accept. I believe the harm in maintaining our current drug policy outweighs the harm in changing it. It certainly hasn't been effective, and we have many examples of the detrimental effects of the policy. 4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: I don't particularly want to continue to exist in this "Groundhog Day" existence of mine in which I left a job answering phones, endured the emotional, mental, intellectual carnage of law school, graduated against all odds, and now ... am back answering phones, either. I don't have a lot of friends. I haven't confided the way I feel about my lot to many people outside of a couple of my closest family members. I could say, "Well, they really don't know what I'm going through. They don't really know how bad it is for me. And even if I forfeit certain opportunities by doing myself in, and even if they'd miss me in the short run, so what? We'd all get over those losses eventually, anyway. Even at its worst, the life to come still has to be better than this. And my desire to escape such an existence, and what I want, outweighs any drawbacks which might ensue from my choice, to myself or others." Should I do it? The libertarian position says, "Why not?" I don't have a wife! I don't have kids! My coworkers and superiors might miss me ... for every second of the fifteen minutes it would take them to select my replacement! Our recruitment manager or our human resources manager has a resume on her desk or in her files (they're both women) right now from someone who is every bit as qualified (and probably more qualified) to do my job than I am! Goodbye, $40K-plus in student loan debt for that useless law degree (death is the only way to escape repaying student loans; they're not even dischargeable in bankruptcy)! The pluses do seem to greatly outweigh the minuses, and, after all, it's my life and my choice! I hope what you wrote was largely a thought exercise to make your point. In any case, know that a lot of us value your contribution to the board (even those of us who disagree with you on some things!), and miss your voice when you take breaks like you did recently. I know that interaction over the internet isn't the same as in person, but this is a good place to get support from a variety of folks. Take care and believe that things will get better! That being said, I believe that the government has a right and maybe a responsibility to promote the prevention of suicide. I'm in favor of state supported education, support, and awareness programs, but I would fight any effort to criminalize suicide or even attempted suicide. I feel similarly about governmental drug policies.
Kenngo1969 Posted April 24, 2018 Posted April 24, 2018 3 hours ago, cacheman said: ... I hope what you wrote was largely a thought exercise to make your point. In any case, know that a lot of us value your contribution to the board (even those of us who disagree with you on some things!), and miss your voice when you take breaks like you did recently. I know that interaction over the internet isn't the same as in person, but this is a good place to get support from a variety of folks. Take care and believe that things will get better! ... I wouldn't worry too much about it. No matter how much a part of me ... and at times, it's a huge part of me ... might want to, I'm not going to do anything drastic. To borrow and slightly alter something the inimitable Major Frank Burns of M*A*S*H infamy once said, "I believe in the sanctity of human life ... no matter how ugly or disgusting it gets." (He was talking about marriage.) 1
Tacenda Posted April 26, 2018 Posted April 26, 2018 (edited) https://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/index.html I may have posted this already, but posting again because it explains how marijuana became so stigmatised. At one point cannibus was commonly used to treat illness before the 70's. So telling... Also, watch "13th" on netflix, there is more about it there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_(film) Also, we don't mention enough that opiods lead to other drugs such as heroin etc. Edited April 26, 2018 by Tacenda
SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 This is a good watch regarding the subject http://www.mormonstories.org/utah-medical-marijuana-legislation-the-patient-perspective/
SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 This is an interesting read about how James E Talmage experimented with cannabis. http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/2011/09/history-of-word-of-wisdom-mar-17-1884.html?m=1
SJR3t2 Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 I wish the LDS church leaders would read their scriptures. Cannabis is an herb. D&C 42:43 And whosoever among you are sick, and have not faith to be healed, but believe, shall be nourished with all tenderness, with herbs and mild food, and that not by the hand of an enemy.
pogi Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 3 hours ago, SJR3t2 said: I wish the LDS church leaders would read their scriptures. Cannabis is an herb. D&C 42:43 And whosoever among you are sick, and have not faith to be healed, but believe, shall be nourished with all tenderness, with herbs and mild food, and that not by the hand of an enemy. Tobacco is also an herb. If members would read their scriptures they would realize that it is not an endorsement for ingesting all herbs - you do realize that some are dangerous and even deadly, right? Quote And again, tobacco is not for the body, neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill. 1
Calm Posted April 27, 2018 Posted April 27, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, SJR3t2 said: I wish the LDS church leaders would read their scriptures. Cannabis is an herb. D&C 42:43 And whosoever among you are sick, and have not faith to be healed, but believe, shall be nourished with all tenderness, with herbs and mild food, and that not by the hand of an enemy. So is belladonna https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100209183337.htm Edited April 27, 2018 by Calm
Tacenda Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, pogi said: Tobacco is also an herb. If members would read their scriptures they would realize that it is not an endorsement for ingesting all herbs - you do realize that some are dangerous and even deadly, right? 8 hours ago, Calm said: So is belladonna https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100209183337.htm Neither do what cannibus does, far from it! So I don't understand the comparison. Also, the U of U is going to do a study with how it affects the brain and other areas in the body. So exciting, I wish I could be part of the study! Edited April 28, 2018 by Tacenda
Calm Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Neither do what cannibus does, far from so I don't understand the comparison. Also, the U of U is going to do a study with how it affects the brain and other areas in the body. So exciting, I wish I could be part of the study! I am just saying something isn't automatically safe just because it is a herb. There are several websites that list possible research studies you can volunteer for. You might even call up the UoU dept that is doing the brain study and find out how they are selecting volunteers (family has participated in a diabetes study we learned of through a specialist; I had volunteered for a study that autopsy brains of those with my disorder I learned of through a support group, but have moved since then so might not be donating my brain after all for that...am planning on donating my body to science to use however they want as I have never been interested in burial and might as well be useful, have to be in decent shape though for general anatomy classes apparently, so got to work on toning up, have to admit that for all the reasons I need to increase my exercise frequency that is low on the list at this point, lol) https://www.iths.org/participate/studies/ https://healthyliving.azcentral.com/how-to-be-part-of-a-paid-research-study-12186328.html Edited April 28, 2018 by Calm 1
Tacenda Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Calm said: I am just saying something isn't automatically safe just because it is a herb. There are several websites that list possible research studies you can volunteer for. You might even call up the UoU dept that is doing the brain study and find out how they are selecting volunteers (family has participated in a diabetes study we learned of through a specialist; I had volunteered for a study that autopsy brains of those with my disorder I learned of through a support group, but have moved since then so might not be donating my brain after all for that...am planning on donating my body to science to use however they want as I have never been interested in burial and might as well be useful, have to be in decent shape though for general anatomy classes apparently, so got to work on toning up, have to admit that for all the reasons I need to increase my exercise frequency that is low on the list at this point, lol) https://www.iths.org/participate/studies/ https://healthyliving.azcentral.com/how-to-be-part-of-a-paid-research-study-12186328.html That's a great idea, and I like your opinion on donating your body for science as well, I'd like to do that also! I don't want a funeral, hopefully my family will honor my wishes. No burial, if a burial, I want to be buried in a pot as a tree. I don't want a casket, unless it's biodegradable. Thanks for the links Calm.
Calm Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 Quote if a burial, I want to be buried in a pot as a tree Hopefully by the time we go, this is be an option: https://www.treehugger.com/culture/egg-shaped-burial-pods-fertilize-forest.html
Tacenda Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Calm said: Hopefully by the time we go, this is be an option: https://www.treehugger.com/culture/egg-shaped-burial-pods-fertilize-forest.html This is exactly what I want to do. Sounds a little better than being burnt to a crisp/cremated.
pogi Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Neither do what cannibus does, far from it! So I don't understand the comparison. Also, the U of U is going to do a study with how it affects the brain and other areas in the body. So exciting, I wish I could be part of the study! Yep, just refuting the claim that the D&C justifies the use of any and all herbs. It is not a good argument in justifying marijuana use. There are good arguments to be made, but that is not one of them. I hate it when hippies use it, and I hate it when Mormons use it. Edited April 28, 2018 by pogi 1
Calm Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: This is exactly what I want to do. Sounds a little better than being burnt to a crisp/cremated. Cremation isn't very green appparently (especially if one has mercury fillings).
Kenngo1969 Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Calm said: Cremation isn't very green appparently (especially if one has mercury fillings). Is there any good way to die, forcryingoutloud?!! Would it be OK if someone simply took me to a taxidermist, had me stuffed, and propped me up in a chair?! Edited April 28, 2018 by Kenngo1969
Calm Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: Is there any good way to die, forcryingoutloud?!! Would it be OK if someone simply took me to a taxidermist, had me stuffed, and propped me up in a chair?! The chemicals used to tan your hide, positive,y cancer causing no doubt. 1
Bernard Gui Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 On 4/24/2018 at 10:27 AM, Marginal Gains said: Ironic. I note you you are making marriage synonymous with mating. Which is nonsense. Nonsense to you, but essential for human society.
Bernard Gui Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 On 4/24/2018 at 11:21 AM, cacheman said: I'm actually a big fan of intraspecific marriage! I would fight against any efforts to ban it! Which specific species do you prefer?
Bernard Gui Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 On 4/24/2018 at 12:31 PM, Marginal Gains said: You don’t get to decide what non Mormons think marriage is or isn’t. Some believe it’s “Till death do us part”. And if it isn’t simply about mortality, then you are still a believing polygamist. Who gets decide?
Bernard Gui Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: Neither do what cannibus does, far from it! So I don't understand the comparison. Also, the U of U is going to do a study with how it affects the brain and other areas in the body. So exciting, I wish I could be part of the study! So exciting? What do you think of this study by the UK Royal College of Psychiatrists? https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/healthadvice/problemsanddisorders/cannabis.aspx Edited April 28, 2018 by Bernard Gui
strappinglad Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 An up and coming business will be making use of cannabis for a variety of consumables including beverages. I wonder what will be said when Coca Cannabis is available .
RevTestament Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 36 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: So exciting? What do you think of this study by the UK Royal College of Psychiatrists? https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/healthadvice/problemsanddisorders/cannabis.aspx Pretty damning: Quote However, adolescents who used cannabis daily were five times more likely to develop depression and anxiety in later life. Psychoses - schizophrenia and bipolar disorder There is now sufficient evidence to show that those who use cannabis particularly at a younger age, such as around the age of 15, have a higher than average risk of developing a psychotic illness, such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder. Not something teenagers should use. However, this summary is a little vague on details. It seems it is talking about regular or even high THC cannabis. Most "medical" cannabis is high CBD and low THC varieties. It may not have these undesirable affects.
Bernard Gui Posted April 28, 2018 Posted April 28, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, RevTestament said: Pretty damning: Not something teenagers should use. However, this summary is a little vague on details. It seems it is talking about regular or even high THC cannabis. Most "medical" cannabis is high CBD and low THC varieties. It may not have these undesirable affects. So, how does the average pot head know exactly what he is using? Edited April 28, 2018 by Bernard Gui
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