Church Statement on Medical Marijuana

[california boy]

51 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

For all of the protestations that marijuana is relatively harmless, comparisons of dangerousness between marijuana and alcohol are difficult. Of course, every state has a Blood Alcohol Content threshold at or above which it becomes unsafe and therefore illegal for one who has consumed alcohol to operate a motor vehicle.  It is well-known how such factors as age, weight, tolerance, accompanying food consumption, and so on affect those who consume alcohol and how those factors interact with alcohol consumption to affect the safe operation of motor vehicles.  Not so with marijuana.  

We have a pretty good idea how much alcohol is in most 12-oz. beers, in a glass of wine, in a shot of hard liquor, and so forth, and how consumption of alcohol will affect the consumer based on criteria previously mentioned, but the content and effect of tetrahydrocannibinol (now you know why they call it "THC"  ... and if you want to get really technical about it, I believe the hypertechnical chemical term is Delta-4-THC) in marijuana is a different matter: It can vary from area to area, from plant to plant, and so on, and its effects are far less predictable, varying not only from person to person, but also from use to use by the same person.  There really is no way to establish a threshold for marijuana use above which operation of a motor vehicle is unsafe, as has been done for alcohol.

You may be right about this.  But marijuana has been legal in one form or another in some states for decades.  I haven't heard the problems with marijuana and driving that is anything remotely compared with the problems of drunk driving.  

I think that it is telling that a lot of states who initially started with medical marijuana have moved to full access to marijuana in a tightly regulated marketplace.  If the disasters are anything like the fear mongers are trying to rake up, why are all these citizens willing to allow full legalization?  I can tell you here in California, I have seen no bad side effects when medical marijuana became legal.  And frankly I see no bad side effects since it has been legalized completely a couple of years ago.  

[california boy]

On a side note, just by chance, I met someone who is involved in a medical marijuana start up company.  They just got funding last week for their project to move forward.  This particular company has a patent on a special strain of marijuana that has 7 times the medical benefits of other marijuana strains.  Even though all marijuana is now legal, it doesn't mean that individual companies are not choosing very specific markets they want to go after.  

I got the chance to ask her a little about the industry.  What was really interesting to me was the incredibly large variety of different strains that produce very specific effects.  Some increase appetite, which is helpful in cancer patients. Some decrease appetite which is good for those needing to control their weight.  Some are specific in helping people sleep. Some decrease anxiety.  The list goes on.  It is important to understand that there is not just one type of marijuana.  There are many strains that offer very specific help.  Each dose is carefully regulated and labeled.  And the regularity process is quite heavy in each part of the process.  Getting permits to grow, market, distribute, sell etc are each handled separately and require specific permits and regulations that must be met.  

[Tacenda]

33 minutes ago, california boy said:

On a side note, just by chance, I met someone who is involved in a medical marijuana start up company.  They just got funding last week for their project to move forward.  This particular company has a patent on a special strain of marijuana that has 7 times the medical benefits of other marijuana strains.  Even though all marijuana is now legal, it doesn't mean that individual companies are not choosing very specific markets they want to go after.  

I got the chance to ask her a little about the industry.  What was really interesting to me was the incredibly large variety of different strains that produce very specific effects.  Some increase appetite, which is helpful in cancer patients. Some decrease appetite which is good for those needing to control their weight.  Some are specific in helping people sleep. Some decrease anxiety.  The list goes on.  It is important to understand that there is not just one type of marijuana.  There are many strains that offer very specific help.  Each dose is carefully regulated and labeled.  And the regularity process is quite heavy in each part of the process.  Getting permits to grow, market, distribute, sell etc are each handled separately and require specific permits and regulations that must be met.  

Thanks CB, good to know they are working on this! Happy 420! According to my son who is into learning all about cannabis, it's Marijuana day or something.

[rongo]

57 minutes ago, california boy said:

On a side note, just by chance, I met someone who is involved in a medical marijuana start up company.  They just got funding last week for their project to move forward.  This particular company has a patent on a special strain of marijuana that has 7 times the medical benefits of other marijuana strains.  Even though all marijuana is now legal, it doesn't mean that individual companies are not choosing very specific markets they want to go after.  

I got the chance to ask her a little about the industry.  What was really interesting to me was the incredibly large variety of different strains that produce very specific effects.  Some increase appetite, which is helpful in cancer patients. Some decrease appetite which is good for those needing to control their weight.  Some are specific in helping people sleep. Some decrease anxiety.  The list goes on.  It is important to understand that there is not just one type of marijuana.  There are many strains that offer very specific help.  Each dose is carefully regulated and labeled.  And the regularity process is quite heavy in each part of the process.  Getting permits to grow, market, distribute, sell etc are each handled separately and require specific permits and regulations that must be met.  

Was she referring to oils, pills, derivatives, etc.? Or, primarily or solely developing it to smoke in order to get these benefits (appetite, weight loss, insomnia, anxiety, etc.)?

It seems to me that almost all people claiming to need it for the above insist that only smoking it (maybe eating it, also) helps them (i.e., not pills or oil).

Smoking it is the firm red line for me. 

[california boy]

5 hours ago, rongo said:

Was she referring to oils, pills, derivatives, etc.? Or, primarily or solely developing it to smoke in order to get these benefits (appetite, weight loss, insomnia, anxiety, etc.)?

It seems to me that almost all people claiming to need it for the above insist that only smoking it (maybe eating it, also) helps them (i.e., not pills or oil).

Smoking it is the firm red line for me. 

She was referring to edibles. When you eat something it is much more important to have the right dose since it takes about an hour to have any effect. When you smoke the reaction is much faster and you can gauge your reaction much more easily

[Jeanne]

13 hours ago, california boy said:

She was referring to edibles. When you eat something it is much more important to have the right dose since it takes about an hour to have any effect. When you smoke the reaction is much faster and you can gauge your reaction much more easily

It doesn't seem like those who are against cannibus really understands...

[Kenngo1969]

3 hours ago, Jeanne said:

It doesn't seem like those who are against cannibus really understands...

Cannibus?  Is this it?

Sorry.  

Couldn't resist!  

Passenger: "Is it OK if I smoke a little Mary Jane on this bus?"

Driver: "Sure!  This is the CANNIBUS!"

Edited April 21, 2018 by Kenngo1969

[flameburns623]

On 4/20/2018 at 3:33 PM, california boy said:

You may be right about this.  But marijuana has been legal in one form or another in some states for decades.  I haven't heard the problems with marijuana and driving that is anything remotely compared with the problems of drunk driving.  

I think that it is telling that a lot of states who initially started with medical marijuana have moved to full access to marijuana in a tightly regulated marketplace.  If the disasters are anything like the fear mongers are trying to rake up, why are all these citizens willing to allow full legalization?  I can tell you here in California, I have seen no bad side effects when medical marijuana became legal.  And frankly I see no bad side effects since it has been legalized completely a couple of years ago.  

I'm hearing thst sutomotive accidents due to impaired driving are up in states which have decriminalized marijuana,  but not as much as expected--and, in many of these states,  cell phone use while driving may also be a factor.  

My ONLY objections to legalized MJ have been to the impaired-while-driving issue, and the health burdens which WILL become a factor for those who smoke their pot in years to come. Most of the issues which tobacco users experience are also risks which pot smokers can reasonably expect to confront. 

As a medical product, it is being used to mitigate issues for people already seriously ill. So: less of a concern.  I don't mind recreational users getting a few minutes of joy in life,  but if they rob others of joy, due to avoidable accidents caused by impaired driving; or, if they trade a few minutes of pleasure,  short term, for decades of diminished quality of life due to lung diseases, these are not fair trades. 

My thoughts. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by flameburns623

[california boy]

13 minutes ago, flameburns623 said:

I'm hearing thst sutomotive accidents due to impaired driving are up in states which have decriminalized marijuana,  but not as much as expected--and, in many of these states,  cell phone use while driving may also be a factor.  

My ONLY objections to legalized MJ have been to the impaired-while-driving issue, and the health burdens which WILL become a factor for those who smoke their pot in years to come. Most of the issues which tobacco users experience are also risks which pot smokers can reasonably expect to confront. 

As a medical product, it is being used to mitigate issues for people already seriously ill. So: less of a concern.  I don't mind recreational users getting a few minutes of joy in life,  but if they rob others of joy, due to avoidable accidents caused by impaired driving; or, if they trade a few minutes of pleasure,  sjort term, for decades of diminished quality of life due to lung diseases, these are not fair trades. 

My thoughts. 

I agree with you. And I can’t see why MJ users don’t use edibles and reduce their cancer risk.  Impaired driving no matter how it happens, even lack of sleep is always an issue

. I know I have driven when I was way too sleepy. I refuse to now. I would rather pull over and sleep until I feel more capable. 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Cannibus?  Is this it?

Sorry.  

Couldn't resist!  

Passenger: "Is it OK if I smoke a little Mary Jane on this bus?"

Driver: "Sure!  This is the CANNIBUS!"

Good pitch for public transportation.  Park and puff.

[RevTestament]

16 hours ago, Calm said:

Good pitch for public transportation.  Park and puff.

Yeesh. They'll have the high bus and the low bus (the quaalude bus). 

[Stargazer]

On 20/04/2018 at 9:33 PM, california boy said:

You may be right about this.  But marijuana has been legal in one form or another in some states for decades.  I haven't heard the problems with marijuana and driving that is anything remotely compared with the problems of drunk driving.  

I think that it is telling that a lot of states who initially started with medical marijuana have moved to full access to marijuana in a tightly regulated marketplace.  If the disasters are anything like the fear mongers are trying to rake up, why are all these citizens willing to allow full legalization?  I can tell you here in California, I have seen no bad side effects when medical marijuana became legal.  And frankly I see no bad side effects since it has been legalized completely a couple of years ago.  

A church acquaintance of mine who tends to be very libertarian politically (and thereby frequently annoys some of the more conservative members of his ward) used to be pro-legalization of MJ. Now that Washington state made it legal he's not so sure.  His business is landscaping, and he has had difficulties finding employees who won't come to work stoned on the stuff.  Not all his employees of course, but it happens enough that he really has his doubts now about the practicality of the new law.

I was one of those who voted to legalize it in Washington, as was my wife.  And a few other LDS of our acquaintance (including the aforementioned).  I am living in the UK now, but before I came here I didn't see any significant problems in Washington from legalized pot.  And it avoids having law enforcement waste resources trying to enforce the unenforceable.

[Bernard Gui]

16 hours ago, Stargazer said:

was one of those who voted to legalize it in Washington, as was my wife.  And a few other LDS of our acquaintance (including the aforementioned).  I am living in the UK now, but before I came here I didn't see any significant problems in Washington from legalized pot.  And it avoids having law enforcement waste resources trying to enforce the unenforceable.

Have you been following the recent UK studies on pot and addiction?

Edited April 23, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Kenngo1969]

6 hours ago, Stargazer said:

... I was one of those who voted to legalize it in Washington, as was my wife.  And a few other LDS of our acquaintance (including the aforementioned).  I am living in the UK now, but before I came here I didn't see any significant problems in Washington from legalized pot.  And it avoids having law enforcement waste resources trying to enforce the unenforceable.

But here's the problem with the "let's-not-waste-more-resources-attempting-to-enforce-the-unenforceable" argument: Even if one is absolutely correct that marijuana is harmless, the "why-enforce-the-unenforceable" argument is equally applicable to other drugs ... which are not so harmless:  Cocaine?  Heroin?  Methamphetamine?  Do we simply throw up our hands and legalize everything?  Libertarianism sounds really good, but it requires maintaining the fiction that actions which have been deemed illegal "wouldn't hurt anyone else" who does not engage in them, and however appealing it might be to posit the existence of such a vacuum on a theoretical level, it doesn't hold up in real life: Practically no such action "doesn't hurt anyone else."

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Have you been following the recent UK studies an pot and addiction?

Nope!  Nothin' to see here, folks!  Marijuana isn't addictive!

[Ken sticks a moistened finger in each ear] What's that?  Nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah!  I can't hear you!  I can't hear you!  Nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah!

[flameburns623]

6 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Nope!  Nothin' to see here, folks!  Marijuana isn't addictive!

[Ken sticks a moistened finger in each ear] What's that?  Nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah!  I can't hear you!  I can't hear you!  Nyah-nyah-nyah-nyah!

Addiction has a rather specific definition. It is distinct from, although related to, dependency:

Quote

drug addiction:

a condition characterized by an overwhelming desire to continue taking a drug to which one has become habituated through repeated consumption because it produces a particular effect, usually an alteration of mental status. Addiction is usually accompanied by a compulsion to obtain the drug, a tendency to increase the dose, a psychological or physical dependence, and detrimental consequences for the individual and society. Common addictive drugs are barbiturates, alcohol, and morphine and other opioids, especially heroin, which has slightly greater euphorigenic properties than other opium derivatives. See also alcoholism, drug abuse.[/quote]

From:

 

 https://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Substance+addiction

In general, drug "addiction" is defined by several factors:

1. A physiological effect which creates a physical dependency upon the drug or substance. Withdrawal of the substance causes marked physical distress even if the addicted consumer receives a placebo and is unaware they are not receiving the actual substance. The physical aspect of addiction is usually understood to be universal, or nearly so: virtually everyone who consumes opioids long enough develop some withdrawal symptoms of physical withdrawal. It is often advisable to "titrate", or tsper-off slowly from such substances to mitigate the physical withdrawal symptoms. 

2. A concomitant psychological dependency, which can usually be mitigated by recourse to a placebo or a substitute for the substance. This tends to be less universal: not everyone becomes mentally or emotionally attached to substances.

3. A detrimental or destructive trajectory, wherein the substance brings on undesirable personality or physical effects. 

4. A necessity to increase dosage of a drug or substance even to toxic levels in order to replicate the experience or sensation created by initial consumption of the drug. 

5. Extreme challenges, often equating to an inability to discontinue use or consumption of a drug or substance without aid/intervention,  even when made fully aware of the destructive trajectory the continued use will precipitate. 

Several of these factors have not been established with respect to marijuana consumption,  as also with caffeine use or pornography habits. They ARE established with respect to tobacco, alcohol,  opioids,  and a number of other substances.

Dependency is distinct from addiction. Many people in Saint Louis are dependent upon caffeine. This does not reflect long-term destructive effects on such people's lives. Many of them remain as nice and as productive while consuming coffee,  tea, or Monster beverages as they are without such crutches. Some, actually,  are MUCH NICER, and more productive,  after their coffee than before.

I have no idea whether porn similarly has a felicitous effect on consumers, apart from crude office jokes which infer that bosses appear nicer when they have been with their partners than during periods of extended abstinence.  I am supportive of the Word of Wisdom and the Law of Chastity as spiritual disciplines, but don't think that caffeine or porn rise to the level of true addiction. 

My reason for opposing cocaine and heroin as recreational substances is that these are so clearly addictive that they obliterate the use of free agency, which must then be reconstructed.  As long as the addiction remains virulent,  the addicted individual remains enslaved to the sources of addiction, and not able to function as an equal in a libertarian society. 

People who say that marijuana is not addictive are not stopping their ears: they are affirming that the conditions defining addiction have not yet been established with respect to pot. 

Edited April 23, 2018 by flameburns623

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, flameburns623 said:

Addiction has a rather specific definition. It is distinct from, although related to, dependency:

I will counter your point with this more recent report from the UK Royal College of Psychiatrists... https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/healthadvice/problemsdisorders/cannabis.aspx?theme=mobile

Quote

Is cannabis addictive?

Yes. Even though in the past cannabis was not thought to be addictive, current evidence now suggests that it can be, particularly if used regularly. Cannabis has the features of addictive drugs such as the development of:

• tolerance – which means having to take more and more to get the same effect. In heavy users, you can experience withdrawal symptoms such as:
  • craving
  • decreased appetite
  • sleep difficulty
  • weight loss
  • aggression and/or increased irritability
  • irritability
  • restlessness
  • strange dreams.       .

These symptoms of withdrawal produce about the same amount of discomfort as withdrawing from tobacco.

For regular, long-term users:

• 3 out of 4 experience cravings;
• half become irritable;
• 7 out of 10 switch to tobacco in an attempt to stay off cannabis.

The irritability, anxiety and problems with sleeping usually appear 10 hours after the last joint, and peak at around one week after the last use of the drug.

Compulsive use

The user feels they have to have it and spends much of their life seeking, buying and using it. They cannot stop even when other important parts of their life (family, school, work) suffer.

Many – perhaps most – people who use cannabis do enjoy it. But it can become a problem for some people. A US organisation, marijuana-anonymous.org, defines the problems of cannabis as follows:

“If cannabis controls our lives and our thinking, and if our desires centre around marijuana - scoring it, dealing it, and finding ways to stay high so that we lose interest in all else.”

The website carries the following questionnaire – which could equally well apply to alcohol use.

"If you answer ‘Yes’ to any of the questions, you may have a problem.

1. Has smoking pot stopped being fun?
2. Do you ever get high alone?
3. Is it hard for you to imagine a life without marijuana?
4. Do you find that your friends are determined by your marijuana use?
5. Do you smoke marijuana to avoid dealing with your problems?
6. Do you smoke pot to cope with your feelings?
7. Does your marijuana use let you live in a privately defined world?
8. Have you ever failed to keep promises you made about cutting down or controlling your dope smoking?
9. Has marijuana caused problems with memory, concentration, or motivation?
10. When your stash is nearly empty, do you feel anxious or worried about how to get more?
11. Do you plan your life around your marijuana use?
12. Have friends or relatives ever complained that your pot smoking is damaging your relationship with them?”

You are most likely to become dependent on cannabis if you use it every day....

What about driving?

In New Zealand, researchers found that those who smoked regularly, and had smoked before driving, were more likely to be injured in a car crash. A recent study in France looked at over 10,000 drivers who were involved in fatal car crashes. Even when the influence of alcohol was taken into account, cannabis users were more than twice as likely to be the cause of a fatal crash than to be one of the victims.

 

This current article from Narcanon also discusses the growing problem of pot addiction.

http://www.narconon.org/drug-abuse/marijuana/addictive.htm

Quote

The First Question: Is Marijuana Addictive? Let’s deal with this question immediately. Groups that are in favor of medical marijuana or broad legalization sweep this question under the carpet. The fact is that, yes, it IS addictive. You are unlikely to hear this fact on the nightly news, in the newspaper or anywhere else. Marijuana IS addictive. Here are a few statistics to make this clearer.

What are the odds of becoming addicted? Studies have shown that:

• Of all the people who use marijuana, about one in eleven will become addicted.
• When a young person begins smoking marijuana in his or her TEENS, he (or she) has a one in six chance of becoming addicted.

Admissions to Treatment

• According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, in 2010, more than 360,000 people were admitted to treatment for addiction, with marijuana being listed as the primary drug they were abusing. That is, they went into rehab because of marijuana and its effects on their bodies and minds.
• Twenty-eight percent of those admissions or 103,000 people were between twelve and seventeen years old. (This figure applies only to publicly-funded facilities so the actual number is much higher.)
• Forty-three percent were under 21.
• In general, only about one person in ten receives needed treatment so it could be estimated that well over three million Americans may be addicted to marijuana – a million of them being high school students or younger.
• Among those entering addiction treatment in 2010, 18% said that their primary drug was marijuana but another 21% said that it was their second or third most problematic drug....

Perhaps a better measure of addiction is whether or not the person experiences harm from the use of this drug, but is so compelled to use it and the cravings for it are so strong that he continues anyway.

According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, heavy marijuana abuse is associated with the following problems or effects:

• Worsening mental and physical health
• Relationship problems
• Higher probability of dropping out of school or abandoning goals
• Lower grades and reduced academic success
• Increased absences from school or work
• More workers’ compensation claims
• Less career success compared to peers.

An addicted cannabis user will continue to use the drug despite effects like these. It is common for a heavy smoker to stop caring about the damage and just focus on staying stoned. This is what is called “addiction.” It applies just as much to marijuana as to crack or meth or pain pills.

From my anecdotal experience with two of my own sons, 42 years as a school teacher, and having worked in the LDS Addiction Recovery Program for 12 years, I have nothing good to say about pot (pending of course on some future legitimate medical use as proven and approved by real science) as a recreational drug.

I do not comprehend how anyone could read the above two articles and then blithely go about the business of legalizing, promoting, producing, marketing, and using what is more and more being shown to be a dangerous substance.

 

Edited April 23, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[california boy]

11 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

But here's the problem with the "let's-not-waste-more-resources-attempting-to-enforce-the-unenforceable" argument: Even if one is absolutely correct that marijuana is harmless, the "why-enforce-the-unenforceable" argument is equally applicable to other drugs ... which are not so harmless:  Cocaine?  Heroin?  Methamphetamine?  Do we simply throw up our hands and legalize everything?  Libertarianism sounds really good, but it requires maintaining the fiction that actions which have been deemed illegal "wouldn't hurt anyone else" who does not engage in them, and however appealing it might be to posit the existence of such a vacuum on a theoretical level, it doesn't hold up in real life: Practically no such action "doesn't hurt anyone else."

I think it is unfortunate that marijuana so easily gets linked with hard drugs like cocaine, heroin, and  methamphetamine as you have done here.  My experience is that those who use marijuana have no interest in harder drugs.  The only thing linking them together is that they are all illegal.  Marijuana is much closer to drinking alcohol.  Just because someone drinks alcohol does not mean they have any interest in hard and very addictive drugs.  

Drug enforcement resources are always limited.  I would much rather those resources go towards drugs that are much more addictive, harmful and destructive.  I also favor getting marijuana out of the hands of dealers that often push harder drugs.  Throwing someone in jail for using marijuana makes as much sense as throwing someone in jail for drinking alcohol.  Some may favor that, but mostly it makes a heck of a lot of criminals and fills our jails/prisons with people who should not be there.  When they come out the other end of that system, it usually doesn't end well.

[california boy]

29 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I will counter your point with this more recent report from the UK Royal College of Psychiatrists... https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/healthadvice/problemsdisorders/cannabis.aspx?theme=mobile

 

This current article from Narcanon also discusses the growing problem of pot addiction.

http://www.narconon.org/drug-abuse/marijuana/addictive.htm

From my anecdotal experience with two of my own sons, 42 years as a school teacher, and having worked in the LDS Addiction Recovery Program for 12 years, I have nothing good to say about pot (pending of course on some future legitimate medical use as proven and approved by real science) as a recreational drug.

I do not comprehend how anyone could read the above two articles and then blithely go about the business of legalizing, promoting, producing, marketing, and using what is more and more being shown to be a dangerous substance.

 

Bernard, I appreciate your posts.  I think it is important to get a full picture of the ramifications of legalizing medical marijuana.  But sometimes I think there are often overstating the information to make things appear they are worse than they are.  Is marijuana addictive?  I can be.  So can many things that are legal.  Alcohol, coffee, tobacco, ice cream, chocolate, soft drinks etc.  So one of the questions one has to weigh is:How bad are the things you listed? How addictive?  

Quote

Is cannabis addictive?

Yes. Even though in the past cannabis was not thought to be addictive, current evidence now suggests that it can be, particularly if used regularly. Cannabis has the features of addictive drugs such as the development of:

• tolerance – which means having to take more and more to get the same effect. In heavy users, you can experience withdrawal symptoms such as:
  • craving
• I assume this is the addictive part.
• • decreased appetite
• Some strains do decrease appetite.  Some strains actually increase appetite.
• • sleep difficulty
• Some Strains actually increase the ability to sleep and are less of a problem than sleeping pills or other alternatives
• • weight loss
• This would probably be tied to appetite.  Some medical uses of marijuana are actually used to encourage weight gain, particularly with cancer patients
• • aggression and/or increased irritability
• I have to say this goes completely against the stereotype of a marijuana user.  Usually marijuana caused the exact opposite affect.  
• • irritability
  • restlessness
  • strange dreams.       .

These symptoms of withdrawal produce about the same amount of discomfort as withdrawing from tobacco.

 

 

Like I said, I am not trying to pretend that marijuana can't be addictive.  But look at the last line in your quote.  

These symptoms of withdrawal produce about the same amount of discomfort as withdrawing from tobacco.

I appreciate you posting this information.  I just don't want things overstated.  I seem to be in the awkward position of defending a drug I don't have any interest in promoting or using.  I just don't like fear being used to discount the medical benefits of marijuana.  We have to look at the negatives as well as the positives.  And most important, can marijuana be used as an alternative to current legal medications whose withdrawals are far worse than withdrawing from opioids.

 

 

[Bernard Gui]

10 hours ago, california boy said:

 

Like I said, I am not trying to pretend that marijuana can't be addictive.  But look at the last line in your quote.  

These symptoms of withdrawal produce about the same amount of discomfort as withdrawing from tobacco.

I appreciate you posting this information.  I just don't want things overstated.  I seem to be in the awkward position of defending a drug I don't have any interest in promoting or using.  I just don't like fear being used to discount the medical benefits of marijuana.  We have to look at the negatives as well as the positives.  And most important, can marijuana be used as an alternative to current legal medications whose withdrawals are far worse than withdrawing from opioids.

Thanks.

I don’t see the comparison as helpful. Tobacco doesn’t come with the extra baggage that pot carries. I have personally witnessed the personality changes, the paranoia, anxiety, listlessness, etc., suffered by pot users. 

Also, I personally know many people who have repeatedly tried but cannot break their tobacco addiction.... including a friend’s granddmother who is in the final stages of lung cancer but cannot stop smoking. 

I will repeat once again the position I have consistently held...if pot has real medical benefits, then treat it like all other legitimate medicines.

As far as recreational use, nope. I don’t care how it compares with alcohol or tobacco. None of them is good for you. I think the most helpful thing is to answer the 12 questions in the first UKRCP report. “Yes” answers should cause serious concern.

Quote

1. Has smoking pot stopped being fun?
2. Do you ever get high alone?
3. Is it hard for you to imagine a life without marijuana?
4. Do you find that your friends are determined by your marijuana use?
5. Do you smoke marijuana to avoid dealing with your problems?
6. Do you smoke pot to cope with your feelings?
7. Does your marijuana use let you live in a privately defined world?
8. Have you ever failed to keep promises you made about cutting down or controlling your dope smoking?
9. Has marijuana caused problems with memory, concentration, or motivation?
10. When your stash is nearly empty, do you feel anxious or worried about how to get more?
11. Do you plan your life around your marijuana use?
12. Have friends or relatives ever complained that your pot smoking is damaging your relationship with them?”

 

Edited April 24, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, california boy said:

I think it is unfortunate that marijuana so easily gets linked with hard drugs like cocaine, heroin, and  methamphetamine as you have done here.  My experience is that those who use marijuana have no interest in harder drugs.  The only thing linking them together is that they are all illegal.  Marijuana is much closer to drinking alcohol.  Just because someone drinks alcohol does not mean they have any interest in hard and very addictive drugs.  

Drug enforcement resources are always limited.  I would much rather those resources go towards drugs that are much more addictive, harmful and destructive.  I also favor getting marijuana out of the hands of dealers that often push harder drugs.  Throwing someone in jail for using marijuana makes as much sense as throwing someone in jail for drinking alcohol.  Some may favor that, but mostly it makes a heck of a lot of criminals and fills our jails/prisons with people who should not be there.  When they come out the other end of that system, it usually doesn't end well.

As usual, you feel the need to argue with me simply for the fact that I have written something (and do not necessarily engage anything I have actually written).  Hope it was fun!   Have a lovely day!   

[Jeanne]

15 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

As usual, you feel the need to argue with me simply for the fact that I have written something (and do not necessarily engage anything I have actually written).  Hope it was fun!   Have a lovely day!   

Well, So much of CB says,I believe is relatively true.  In a way..I wish my sister would have just had some pot once in awhile instead of drinking herself to death.

[Kenngo1969]

8 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Well, So much of CB says,I believe is relatively true.  In a way..I wish my sister would have just had some pot once in awhile instead of drinking herself to death.

Whether what he has written is true or not isn't necessarily the issue.  The question, for me, is whether he makes any effort to understand what I have written or to engage it directly.  You may disagree, but I have my doubts.  I'm sorry about your sister, but I do think, "Well, if only she had used pot instead of booze," is a false dilemma.

[Jeanne]

6 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Whether what he has written is true or not isn't necessarily the issue.  The question, for me, is whether he makes any effort to understand what I have written or to engage it directly.  You may disagree, but I have my doubts.  I'm sorry about your sister, but I do think, "Well, if only she had used pot instead of booze," is a false dilemma.

It is a false dilemma..and I so agree with that..but knowing she would never go to hard drugs...makes me think that I could still have her somehow.  I understand how you feel.  Staying away from everything is wonderful..but those who need it..for health..and this so different..we cannot judge or take away their chance to have any quality of life.  Because someone may have a couple of drinks a week..or a joint once in awhile..does not make him an addict or progressive addict that it does to someone who drinks caffeine...daily...hello Dr. Pepper.  We group this.  That is not fair.  You are talking to a prozac nation!

[Kenngo1969]

46 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

It is a false dilemma..and I so agree with that..but knowing she would never go to hard drugs...makes me think that I could still have her somehow.  I understand how you feel.  Staying away from everything is wonderful..but those who need it..for health..and this so different..we cannot judge or take away their chance to have any quality of life.  Because someone may have a couple of drinks a week..or a joint once in awhile..does not make him an addict or progressive addict that it does to someone who drinks caffeine...daily...hello Dr. Pepper.  We group this.  That is not fair.  You are talking to a prozac nation!

I don't judge anybody; I don't have a calling that requires me to do so.  I simply do the best I can to articulate my own positions and to back them up, and to state accurately where I think the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints would come down on a given issue and why.  

As far as anyone else's standing before God, that is between that person and God.  I don't work for the ACME Judgment Company.  They offered me a terrific position with a fabulous salary and great benefits and other perks (and best of all, it would have saved me from a life of answering phones, all d*** workday, every d*** workday  ) but I still  felt compelled to turn it down because I didn't think I was qualified.

I do think that anyone who has made covenants to abstain from certain substances ought to consider very carefully, from a spiritual standpoint, what it might mean if they were to decide to partake of those substances, but, obviously, anyone in that position no longer attaches the same significance to those covenants that I do, and if he's right about that, then, it will not matter, in the end, what substances either one of us partake of, or not.

My $0.02.  Your mileage likely varies.