Ex-fertility Doctor, Former Mission & Temple President Facing Lawsuit

[will227457]

10 hours ago, readstoomuch said:

 

Dr Mortimer was one of the most ethical people I ever dealt with.  So, I think there could be another side to the story, but it is unfortunate and I see why all of the family feels hurt and betrayed.  

I am curious as to what you  think could possibly be the other side of the story. If you read the AMA code of ethics

 II. A physician shall uphold the standards of professionalism, be honest in all professional interactions, and strive to report physicians deficient in character or competence, or engaging in fraud or deception, to appropriate entities

[Avatar4321]

1 hour ago, JulieM said:

You must have to sign that they can release your name to others who are a match.

I know of two people who were adopted that found their birth parent through ancestry.com.

ETA:

In the CNN article, there is a statement from Ancestry.com about how you can choose to not share your information if you don’t want to:

"’With Ancestry, customers maintain ownership and control over their DNA data. Anyone who takes a test can change their DNA matching settings at any time, meaning that if they opt-out, their profile and relationship will not be visible to other customers,’ the statement said.”

 

Learn something new everyday

[phaedrus ut]

We had another Mormon fertility doctor with a similar case years ago. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecil_Jacobson

He is believed to have fathered up to 75 children 

Edited April 5, 2018 by phaedrus ut

[LoudmouthMormon]

7 minutes ago, phaedrus ut said:

We had another Mormon fertility doctor with a similar case years ago. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cecil_Jacobson 

Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see Wiki stating he is LDS...

[rpn]

15 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

A DNA test will confirm if this is true or not and then we can go from there.

A DNA test DID confirm this and that is how the child and the parents learned all so many years later about what he had done.

[phaedrus ut]

3 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Maybe I'm missing it, but I don't see Wiki stating he is LDS...

It probably doesn't but some victims were local church members.  This Deseret News article mentions him moving his assets into a trust 

Quote

Jacobson is also accused of lying about transferring assets into a trust when former patients started suing him for malpractice. The trust was called Jacobson Ziff, with "ziff" being a Book of Mormon word for treasure or precious metal.

 

[LoudmouthMormon]

Huh.  Well, I wonder if Cecil Jacobson was/is LDS.  Surely there has never been a shortage of ex- or former- or never-LDS folks in SLC using LDS churchy or cultural terms to mock and poke fun.  Can't swing a dead cat in some avatar-based forums without running into people calling themselves NewNameNoah or BishopFeeleyGood or whatever.  Doesn't make them LDS.

Edited April 5, 2018 by LoudmouthMormon

[Jeanne]

13 hours ago, Calm said:

This confirms I have missed nothing by never ever seeing even a clip of that show.  My exposure has been no more than a few seconds of commercial.  I am so grateful for remote controls, DVR and fast forward, and all such things that allow me to watch TV while avoiding reality shows (except on occasion cooking and home shows...check out Netflix's Extraordinary Homes show; I want to live in the Alps)

I hated the Maury show...was very much embarrassed for all adults on that show 

[rongo]

Maybe this is why the Church strongly discourages artificial insemination. In LDS doctrine, one's earthly parentage is important and not just an accident of biology, and purposely using modern technology to have children when not married is considered worse than within marriage (using language similar to how the Church regards abortion). The ability to use donors has opened up dilemmas that have doctrinal ramifications within an LDS framework that wouldn't be as much of an issue outside of that.

CHI 1:17.3.3

The Church strongly discourages artificial insemination using semen from anyone but the husband. However, this is a personal matter that ultimately must be left to the judgment of the husband and wife. Responsibility for the decision rests solely upon them. Artificial insemination of single sisters is not approved. Single sisters who deliberately refuse to follow the counsel of Church leaders in this matter are subject to Church discipline.

Other than the reaction that you might not want your doctor to be the donor, is there any other reason why this is necessarily frowned on (assuming the doctor met the requested criteria)?

Given the Church's position, it's interesting that the Church hasn't more assiduously discouraged artificial insemination as a medical practice among LDS doctors. 

 

[Jeanne]

Perhaps I have already missed this in previous pages since I was a work...but does Dr. Mortimer and wife have children?

[phaedrus ut]

6 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Huh.  Well, I wonder if Cecil Jacobson was/is LDS.  Surely there has never been a shortage of ex- or former- or never-LDS folks in SLC using LDS churchy or cultural terms to mock and poke fun.  Can't swing a dead cat in some avatar-based forums without running into people calling themselves NewNameNoah or BishopFeeleyGood or whatever.  Doesn't make them LDS.

It's well known he was Mormon.  IIRC one of the victims testified that since she and her husband were Jewish they wanted a Jewish donor and Jacobson testified that his sperm qualified because he was Mormon. 

[ALarson]

11 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Perhaps I have already missed this in previous pages since I was a work...but does Dr. Mortimer and wife have children?

Here's some info on them (it doesn't mention if or how many children they have).  This is a link to the announcement of him being called as a temple president in 2009:

http://www.ldschurchnewsarchive.com/articles/57979/New-temple-presidents.html

Quote

 

Gerald Elbert Mortimer, 66, Ammon 5th Ward, Ammon Idaho Stake, called as president of the new Cebu City Philippines Temple. President Mortimer's wife, Linda Gay McKinnon Mortimer, will serve as temple matron. President Mortimer is the area medical adviser for the Idaho Pocatello and Idaho Boise Missions, and serves as a Sunday School teacher and temple ordinance worker. He has served as president of the Philippines San Pablo Mission, stake president's counselor, bishop, bishop's counselor and ward Young Men president. A retired physician, he was born in Payson, Utah, to William Earl and Margaret Eastmond Johnson Mortimer.

A ward Relief Society president and temple ordinance worker, Sister Mortimer served with her husband as he presided over the Philippines San Pablo Mission. She has also served as a stake Relief Society president's counselor, ward Young Women advisor, Primary teacher and Sunday School teacher. She was born in Logan, Utah, to Glen and Thelma Linda Hatch McKinnon.

 

 

[Jeanne]

5 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Here's some info on them (it doesn't mention if or how many children they have).  This is a link to the announcement of him being called as a temple president in 2009:

http://www.ldschurchnewsarchive.com/articles/57979/New-temple-presidents.html

 

Thank you...just wondered how aware she might have been to the fact that her husband had a daughter.  This whole thing is so sad.

[readstoomuch]

2 hours ago, will227457 said:

I am curious as to what you  think could possibly be the other side of the story. If you read the AMA code of ethics

 II. A physician shall uphold the standards of professionalism, be honest in all professional interactions, and strive to report physicians deficient in character or competence, or engaging in fraud or deception, to appropriate entities

I tried to give you the other side of the story.  Our family also has multiple couples with infertility problems.  My next door catholic neighbors had fertility problems and spent a fortune to finally conceive four children.  His main desire may have been to help them have a baby.  So,  my story is that I had significant interactions with someone, including in some tough situations and he always responded in the way that the Lord would want-my opinion.  Then this happens.  How do you square that?  Especially if you know him and his wife.  I don't exactly know, but I think it is important for someone to point out that he isn't a total loser of a person.  

They had three or four children when I knew them.  

[Jeanne]

1 minute ago, readstoomuch said:

I tried to give you the other side of the story.  Our family also has multiple couples with infertility problems.  My next door catholic neighbors had fertility problems and spent a fortune to finally conceive four children.  His main desire may have been to help them have a baby.  So,  my story is that I had significant interactions with someone, including in some tough situations and he always responded in the way that the Lord would want-my opinion.  Then this happens.  How do you square that?  Especially if you know him and his wife.  I don't exactly know, but I think it is important for someone to point out that he isn't a total loser of a person.  

They had three or four children when I knew them.  

Thank you for your response...I was wondering if they had children of their own. 

[ALarson]

1 minute ago, readstoomuch said:

I tried to give you the other side of the story.  Our family also has multiple couples with infertility problems.  My next door catholic neighbors had fertility problems and spent a fortune to finally conceive four children.  His main desire may have been to help them have a baby.  So,  my story is that I had significant interactions with someone, including in some tough situations and he always responded in the way that the Lord would want-my opinion.  Then this happens.  How do you square that?  Especially if you know him and his wife.  I don't exactly know, but I think it is important for someone to point out that he isn't a total loser of a person.  

I don't think that anyone believes he is "a total loser of a person".  But what he did here was not right or ethical or moral, IMO.  He knowingly deceived a couple and fathered a child.  That's a pretty huge mistake and decision for him to make.  There are consequences to making choices such as this one and he's having to face them now.

[readstoomuch]

Think I will just leave it at that.  I am on Spring break with my family anyway.  I am surprised and it was the last thing I thought I would see.  If someone thinks I am trying to say what he did was Ok, that's just not true.  

[ALarson]

1 minute ago, readstoomuch said:

Think I will just leave it at that.  I am on Spring break with my family anyway.  I am surprised and it was the last thing I thought I would see.  If someone thinks I am trying to say what he did was Ok, that's just not true.  

No, I think you have every right to tell what you know about him.  I'm sure he did many good things in his life.  I think people here understand why you spoke up and I appreciate knowing more about him.

[katherine the great]

3 hours ago, rongo said:

Maybe this is why the Church strongly discourages artificial insemination. In LDS doctrine, one's earthly parentage is important and not just an accident of biology, and purposely using modern technology to have children when not married is considered worse than within marriage (using language similar to how the Church regards abortion). The ability to use donors has opened up dilemmas that have doctrinal ramifications within an LDS framework that wouldn't be as much of an issue outside of that.

 

A.I. seems a heck of a lot more moral than the Old Testament way of giving a slave girl to the husband to produce a child for an infertile, high status woman. Both methods ensure the biological lineage of one of the legal parents.

[ttribe]

18 hours ago, katherine the great said:

I'm sure this was extremely upsetting to the couple and their daughter but the fact that they would include the doctor's wife in the lawsuit just seems plain mean-spirited to me. I seriously doubt his wife was complicit and likely had no idea he had done that. Not really knowing the facts, the scenario I imagine is that the doctor heard the description the couple requested and thought, "Hey, I match that description. Problem solved!"  Totally unethical, but it seems possible he meant to help without thinking through the possible repercussions.

In community property states naming the spouse as a defendant is standard practice to keep the primary defendant from hiding assets in the name of the spouse. It's not an attempt to be mean spirited. In fact, if the spouse's name isn't known at the time of the filing, a John Doe or Jane Doe placeholder will be put into the filing to be filled in later. 

[Stargazer]

17 hours ago, Gray said:

I've heard of this happening before. Not sure what these kind of guys are getting out of it. Maybe it's narcissism, and they think they have super genes that need to be spread far and wide.

I find this whole thing rather bizarre.

Although I can see the narcissism thing, maybe he DOES have super genes that need to be spread far and wide.  Just kidding!

Also, I do wonder if this was a case of error -- you know how sometimes hospitals mistakenly swap babies between mothers, and this is only discovered years later.  I don't know how this guy's clinic stored and referenced the samples, but is it possible he thought he was applying someone else's sperm, but the sample was mislabeled, and happened to be his?  Would it be unethical to donate sperm to your own sperm bank?  

Let's just say this was deliberate -- how is it a case of personal injury leading to liability?  The couple come to the clinic to get sperm from someone other than the husband -- because reasons -- and what did they get? Sperm from someone other than the husband.  Anonymously, too.  If they find out inadvertently well after the fact who it was, does it matter exactly who it was?  What if it had been the neighbor from across the street?  Then it's all right?

This is going to be an interesting court case, for sure.

[katherine the great]

28 minutes ago, ttribe said:

In community property states naming the spouse as a defendant is standard practice to keep the primary defendant from hiding assets in the name of the spouse. It's not an attempt to be mean spirited. In fact, if the spouse's name isn't known at the time of the filing, a John Doe or Jane Doe placeholder will be put into the filing to be filled in later. 

This is a point of confusion for me. How can a husband hide assets in the name of his wife in a community property state? I thought community property meant what's yours is mine and what's mine is yours. (although I prefer: what's yours is mine and what's mine is mine too)

[katherine the great]

17 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I find this whole thing rather bizarre.

Although I can see the narcissism thing, maybe he DOES have super genes that need to be spread far and wide.  Just kidding!

Also, I do wonder if this was a case of error -- you know how sometimes hospitals mistakenly swap babies between mothers, and this is only discovered years later.  I don't know how this guy's clinic stored and referenced the samples, but is it possible he thought he was applying someone else's sperm, but the sample was mislabeled, and happened to be his?  Would it be unethical to donate sperm to your own sperm bank?  

Let's just say this was deliberate -- how is it a case of personal injury leading to liability?  The couple come to the clinic to get sperm from someone other than the husband -- because reasons -- and what did they get? Sperm from someone other than the husband.  Anonymously, too.  If they find out inadvertently well after the fact who it was, does it matter exactly who it was?  What if it had been the neighbor from across the street?  Then it's all right?

This is going to be an interesting court case, for sure.

Good points. Other than feeling emotionally betrayed and totally creeped out, what are the actual actionable damages?

[ttribe]

5 hours ago, katherine the great said:

This is a point of confusion for me. How can a husband hide assets in the name of his wife in a community property state? I thought community property meant what's yours is mine and what's mine is yours. (although I prefer: what's yours is mine and what's mine is mine too)

Assets can be signed away as sole and separate. 

[webbles]

I keep hearing stories about this type of behavior by fertility doctors.  It almost makes me think that fertility doctors in the early days just did this as a normal thing.  Maybe all children conceived through IVF back then should have their DNA tested and see how common this behavior was?

Here's a list of 5 stories that I could quickly find dealing with this behavior around the world:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/9193014/British-man-fathere...

https://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/13/health/fertility-doctor-i...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4504648/Head-Dutch-c...

http://www.rebelcircus.com/blog/fertility-doctor-used-sperm-...

https://news.sky.com/story/dna-of-fertility-clinic-doctor-ac...