JLHPROF Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: How sad that one would believe the appointment of these two leaders was driven by public or political pressure rather than divine revelation. There is absolutely no reason it can't be both. 3
Jeanne Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: How sad that one would believe the appointment of these two leaders was driven by public or political pressure rather than divine revelation. I am pretty sure that this is not all that Stem meant by this..but it was time and the awareness of the church is to be applauded that members needed this diversity.
JLHPROF Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, ElPatron said: Take this for what it’s worth but it did happen.... This week I was In SLC on business. I went Downtown Thursday evening and around 7:30pm a meeting ended at the JMB and all of the visiting General Authorities came pouring out of the building and started making their way to their hotel. I saw Several faces I recognized and one in particular stood out to me and I thought To myself, “he seems to be beaming”. I arrived home yesterday and I told My son about this. Later I looked up all of the General authorities trying to find a picture of this man and i couldn’t find it. Today, I recognized him. It was Elder Gong and I will ALWAYS remember how I saw him that Thursday. Who knows if he had been called by then, but there was a difference in his face amongst all of the others around him. Pretty cool experience. It's very likely he had just been called. If I remember correctly Thursdays are when the FP and 12 meet in the temple.
CMZ Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 34 minutes ago, stemelbow said: They finally listened! I mean it took along time of digging in heels with the heels. Diversity in the quorum is a good thing. Now I’m guessing as diversity continues in the church the church as a whole will be better equipped to gain from its merits. Not sure that's the proper way of looking at it. The Lord makes the calls. 3
CMZ Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 47 minutes ago, Jeanne said: I am pretty sure that this is not all that Stem meant by this..but it was time and the awareness of the church is to be applauded that members needed this diversity. Many people have wanted it for a long time. The awareness has long been present. The Church had constantly been barraged for years with questions of when the first "minority" (or insert your preferred term) apostle(s) would be called. Many members waited patiently for it to happen while others remove themselves from church activity and demand that it happen. Hopefully everyone saw how welcoming the members of the Quorum of the Twelve who had been called prior to today were towards the two that were called today. It was great to see that as they got up from their seats after the morning session just ended. While my plain old white self watched the sustainings this morning with my Mexican (and Mexico-born) wife we rejoiced to hear the calls. I practically shouted, "They did it! They did it!" I then called up my plain old white mother and told her about Gerrit Gong being called but more especially how her choice of Ulisses Soares was called. She couldn't do much beyond exclaiming, "Wonderful! Wonderful!" But we never made it a matter of guilting "church leaders" into making such a move nor holding our church and gospel activity hostage until it happened. And, ultimately, while it is totally awesome that it happened, it's still not more important than each individual's testimony and devotion to the gospel. That was more important before today than who the apostles were and it will continue to be more important. Edited March 31, 2018 by CMZ 3
Avatar4321 Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Traela said: With Elder Gong's and President Nelson's combined experience in China, we may see some interesting things start happening. That’s what I was thinking and that we no longer have to listen to critics whine about skin color. 2
Calm Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 Just now, Avatar4321 said: and that we no longer have to listen to critics whine about skin color. You are dreaming. 3
Avatar4321 Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, CMZ said: That's the thing. Now that we have the first real hints of ethnic diversity in the Quorum of the Twelve we all have to remember what was true before that: that their testimonies and service are even more important. Pretty soon ethnic diversity in the Quorum might start seeming rather mundane. Mundane to me already
Avatar4321 Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Gray said: Could be difficult, China is moving backwards into greater totalitarianism at the moment. The Lord could be using this to set up a time where we can go into China
CMZ Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: Mundane to me already See? There you go. It's already old news. 1
Jeanne Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: That’s what I was thinking and that we no longer have to listen to critics whine about skin color. I don't think they were so much whining as to the why of others being just as worthy. Just my opinion. 1
Avatar4321 Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jeanne said: I don't think they were so much whining as to the why of others being just as worthy. Just my opinion. I stand by my whining comment 😛😛 1
Popular Post carbon dioxide Posted March 31, 2018 Popular Post Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, stemelbow said: They finally listened! I mean it took along time of digging in heels with the heels. Diversity in the quorum is a good thing. Now I’m guessing as diversity continues in the church the church as a whole will be better equipped to gain from its merits. That is what I love about people who hold this view. The want the church to do something and then when the church finally does something, they assume like you that they did it because they listened or complied with the demands made. Then they basically mock the church for making the change. Even if you don't believe in divine revelation, simple logic would determine that this would happen regardless of complains from the peanut gallery. The Church has more members outside the USA than inside. Eventually enough people from outside the US would make it into the seventies and some eventually would spill over into the twelve. I suppose if the church really wanted to make a splash they would have called a black to be in the twelve. Eventually that will happen and we can pretty much predict right now that you will say at that moment 'They finally listened". Edited March 31, 2018 by carbon dioxide 9
Storm Rider Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 53 minutes ago, Jeanne said: I agree with you..and I praise the LDS church this day. But those same directions have been happening for many moons now..I am glad..but why did it take so long? How long did the children of Israel seek for the return of their Messiah? Then when he came there were so few that were even interested in hearing him. How long have we been waiting for his return? I suspect that there will be just as few will hear his voice. The more things change the more they stay the same. Happy Easter to you and yours 3
Popular Post CMZ Posted March 31, 2018 Popular Post Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jeanne said: I don't think they were so much whining as to the why of others being just as worthy. Just my opinion. Yes. Many are worthy to be called apostles, but it's not essential to a man's individual salvation to be called as an apostle, nor is being called as an apostle an elevation to celebrity status. It's a call to be a servant of the Lord. Before today people had to understand that but many didn't. From today and beyond people still need to understand that but I'm afraid some won't. Many are rejoicing today in awesome news that maybe didn't have to happen at all, while others are responding to the same circumstances by remaining embittered and saying, "Well, it shouldn't have taken them so long." Please understand that ultimately it doesn't matter and even if today's news didn't happen, or was put off another few years, or never happened at all before the Second Coming it still doesn't change the fact that individuals of any race can experience all the blessings of the Gospel if they so choose. Edited March 31, 2018 by CMZ 6
Rain Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Traela said: With Elder Gong's and President Nelson's combined experience in China, we may see some interesting things start happening. I had the same thoughts. 1 hour ago, Storm Rider said: I have found that when people have an eye single to the glory of God it does not matter what their gender or race is; they all are going in the same direction and there is a uniformity in desire to serve God without conflict with others. I think that because when people have an eye single to the glory of God, given the proclamation, that at least gender DOES matter. And after hearing all of the things this morning about prophets being called in the premortal life that race matters as well - it just means that all these different strengths should work together in unity.
CA Steve Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 I wonder how many of the over 1 million Brazilian members find the fact that Elder Soraes was called, mundane? 1
The Nehor Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, stemelbow said: They finally listened! I mean it took along time of digging in heels with the heels. Diversity in the quorum is a good thing. Now I’m guessing as diversity continues in the church the church as a whole will be better equipped to gain from its merits. Yes, your sacrifice and longsuffering work towards making this day happen will not be forgotten. You are truly a hero. Edited March 31, 2018 by The Nehor 4
Rain Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Jeanne said: I agree with you..and I praise the LDS church this day. But those same directions have been happening for many moons now..I am glad..but why did it take so long? That was basically answered in one of the talks this morning. I don't remember which one. I think the one about President Nelson being a doctor. Might be good to look it up. 1
The Nehor Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 2 hours ago, cinepro said: The long awaited day when non-white male diversity would come to the Quorum of the 12 has arrived. Expect amazing and ground-breaking change to occur in about 30 years. Waiting for the howls of rage when they realize how unlikely it is they will outlive the others. Gong is 65. Suares is 60. 1
The Nehor Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Traela said: With Elder Gong's and President Nelson's combined experience in China, we may see some interesting things start happening. What special experience does Gong bring about China? He many not even speak Mandarin or Cantonese and has he even been to China? He was President over the Asia area but that involves a lot more than just China. Dangerous to fall into stereotyping. Edited March 31, 2018 by The Nehor
Popular Post Calm Posted March 31, 2018 Popular Post Posted March 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, The Nehor said: What special experience does Gong bring about China? He many not even speak Mandarin or Cantonese and has he even been to China? He was President over the Asia area but that involves a lot more than just China. Dangerous to fall into stereotyping. "Elder Gong received a Bachelor of Arts degree in Asian and university studies from Brigham Young University in 1977....in 1987 as special assistant to the U.S. ambassador in Beijing, China.. Elder Gong has served in numerous Church callings, including full-time missionary in the Taiwan Taipei Mission..." https://www.lds.org/church/leader/gerrit-w-gong?lang=eng 7
Gray Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 44 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: The Lord could be using this to set up a time where we can go into China One never knows.
Mormons Talk Posted March 31, 2018 Posted March 31, 2018 What a historic day for the Church! With the calling of the two new apostles, senior church leadership is the most diverse it's ever been - it includes a German, an Asian-American, a Brazilian, and a Nazarene (my perennial favorite). I've updated my personal edition of the Church's organization chart accordingly (below). 4
cinepro Posted March 31, 2018 Author Posted March 31, 2018 (edited) 41 minutes ago, Calm said: "Elder Gong received a Bachelor of Arts degree in Asian and university studies from Brigham Young University in 1977....in 1987 as special assistant to the U.S. ambassador in Beijing, China.. Elder Gong has served in numerous Church callings, including full-time missionary in the Taiwan Taipei Mission..." https://www.lds.org/church/leader/gerrit-w-gong?lang=eng Don't assume too much. I know several missionaries who served in Taiwan but have totally forgotten any Chinese they learned... I also know a returned missionary from Taiwan who was white as the driven snow and served in the LAPD for several decades. He never got tired of the look on Chinese-speaking crooks' faces when they spoke among themselves in Chinese and he let them know he spoke Chinese too. Edited March 31, 2018 by cinepro 1
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