Utah Ward Invites LGBT Speakers for 2nd and 3rd Hour

[smac97]

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

You are questioning the entire meeting based on 7 words. 

I am expressing some concern, yes.  And not just about those 7 words.

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

Somehow that seems rather nit-picky.  I am sure that we could equally nit-pick every sacrament talk and accuse many of terrible optics.  But then we would be blind to the message. 

I am not interested in picking at nits.  My concerns, which I have made quite clear, are not trivial.

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

Quote

What is the limiting principle here?  Is there one?

   I have addressed this in other responses.  "LGBT youth are at heightened risk, they therefore need heightened attention."

That does not address the point I am making.  Here it is again:

Quote

 

But consider what she is saying here.  "Now clean, happily married to a woman..."  That sounds an awful lot like advocacy/justification for conduct that is prohibited by the Church, that is grounds for excommunication.  And she is saying such things in a meeting held in an LDS building, during the Church's formal Sunday services, and presided over by local priesthood holders.

My concern pertains to A) whether this meeting was conducted with proper approval and in accordance with the Church's guidelines, and B) whether meetings like this might create a challenging precedent.

For example, are we going to allow polygamists to come into Church meetings and present their opinions about the merits of their social and marital circumstances?  If not, why not?

What about unmarried parents?  Are we going to allow them to come into Church meetings and present their views as to their social and marital circumstances?  If not, why not?

What about Denver Snuffer?  Are we going to allow him to come into Church meetings and explain and advocate for his views about matters of church doctrine and governance?  If not, why not?

What about Kate Kelly?  Are we going to allow her to come into Church meetings and explain and advocate for her views about women in the church, female ordination, etc.?  If not, why not?

What is the limiting principle here?  Is there one?

 

I agree that LGBT youth need attention.  I am all for that.  My concern is when this "attention" amounts to a bishop and stake presidency authorizing the use of the Church's facilities and formal Sunday services for what appears to be - to some extent - the advocacy/justification of conduct that is prohibited by the Church, that is grounds for excommunication. 

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

I am sure the participants were prepared in advance as to what the meeting was about. 

You are?  How do you know that?

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

If someone took the occasion to justify/excuse/rationalize...well, it happens. 

Ho hum, eh?  That's it?  What may have happened is the justification/excusing/rationalization of excommunicable conduct by people in open transgression, who have been invited by local leaders to use the Church's facilities and formal Sunday services to advance those efforts.

And all you can say is "Well, it happens?"

Can you appreciate that others might be a bit more alarmed at such a prospect?

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

But we can't be afraid to let sinners speak because of fear that they MIGHT justify/excuse/rationalize.

It's not a matter of fear.  

Addressing the Saints during Sunday services, in consecrated buildings, is very much a privilege.

Have you ever wondered by people who are under church discipline, or who have been excommunicated, are not allowed to give talks, offer prayers, etc. during Church services?  Why do you think that is?

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

And, yes, there have been meetings in church where porn addicts have been allowed to share their experiences of shame etc. We had a special porn meeting in my ward with a recovering addict who openly shared his experiences of shame, etc.  Liberating from the taboo!

Have there been meetings in church where porn addicts have been asked by local priesthood leaders to use Sunday services to present to the assembled Saints a justification/excusing/rationalization of their porn addiction?  

I sense you are not grasping the concerns being voiced here.

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

As far as your CFR goes, I have already clarified that it is not specific to our church alone.  I can show you general risk for LGBT youth in general, and the increased risk if their religious convictions cause conflict with their sexual orientation, leading to "internalized homophobia".  Would that suffice?  I think you have already seen that link in the other thread though.

Yes, please provide it.  Chapter and verse.

Meanwhile, I wonder if you've encountered information like this:

Quote

American Journal of Epidemiology:
Active Latter-day Saints Seven Times Less Likely to Commit Suicide

SOURCE: American Journal of Epidemiology 2002;155:413-419. Write-up in: "High Religious Commitment Linked to Less Suicide", by Charnicia E. Huggins (Reuters Health), Daily News (6 March 2002), URL: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20020 ... ion_1.html

NEW YORK (Reuters Health) - Young Mormon men living in Utah who closely adhere to the dictates of their faith are less likely to commit suicide than their peers who are less active in the church, study findings show.

The Mormon Church is known formally as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS).

For more than 10 years, 15- to 34-year-old males in Utah have had suicide rates markedly higher than those seen nationally. In fact, in the early to mid-1990s, suicide was the number one cause of death among 25- to 44-year-old men in the state and the second-leading cause of death among men aged 15 to 24.

"These results provide evidence that a low level of religious commitment is a potential risk factor for suicide," Dr. Sterling C. Hilton of Brigham Young University in Provo, Utah, and his colleagues write in the March 1st issue of the American Journal of Epidemiology.

Hmm. The Latter-day Saints who are at increased risk for suicide, then, are those who do not live according to the teachings of the LDS Church.

More here:

Quote

Religion and Completed Suicide: a Meta-Analysis

Introduction

Suicide is a major public health concern and a leading cause of death around the world. How religion influences the risk of completed suicide in different settings across the world requires clarification in order to best inform suicide prevention strategies.

...

Conclusion

Religion plays a protective role against suicide in a majority of settings where suicide research is conducted. However, this effect varies based on the cultural and religious context. Therefore, public health professionals need to strongly consider the current social and religious atmosphere of a given population when designing suicide prevention strategies.

Put another way, the teachings of the LDS Church (or religion in general) decrease the risk of suicide.  This rather contradicts the whole "We can't advocate the doctrines of the Church, because that increases the risk of suicide"-style of argument.

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

I understand you concern of wanting to keep the optics of the message pure, but sometimes sometimes there are things more important than optics. 

It's about a lot more than "optics."  A lot more.

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

I am sure the local leadership sought inspiration and guidance in this meeting.  Surely, they took it to the Lord. 

It's a fairly significant deviation from the Church's policies.  I question whether local leaders have the discretion and stewardship to color outside of the lines this far.

Scott addressed this point, too.  

4 minutes ago, pogi said:

I have a feeling that it was an overall positive experience that led to greater understanding and Christ-like love and acceptance of the sinner.  

The same could be said for letting Denver Snuffer present his views during Sunday services.  Would you be okay with that?

Thanks,

-Smac

[Scott Lloyd]

18 minutes ago, rongo said:

It sounds to me like this bishop has a hobby horse, and he is dedicating a significant amount of his time to it (serving at the Encircle House, arranging this meeting, etc.). It has all the earmarks of a Bishop Reel (and the aftermath of that), and that's what concerns me.

I'll admit that occurred to me.

Quote

There's an opportunity cost involved, and I wonder what bishop's duties are on the back burner or fall to the wayside because of his passion and dedication to this issue. 

At the very least, it consumed nearly two hours of the three-hour Sabbath worship block and pre-empted that day's Sunday School lessons and Melchizedek Priesthood and Relief Society meetings.

 

[Brian 2.0]

8 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I never said it was a bad thing. In fact I think I said it could be just the opposite.

And I agree with your second sentence. Any potentially good thing can be misguided or misapplied.

Yes. And I think I said as much.

You were referring to my quote, but it seems to be USU78 (who quoted me) whom you are addressing here, so I'd best leave it to him to respond.

I will only point out that misapplying a good thing  (as per your comment above) can easily result in bullying (not that I'm claiming that's what the bishop here was doing or intended to do).

Yes. sorry. I'm still not good at dealing with multiple quotes. I should be better.

That was geared more towards USU78. I understand your position and have no beef with it. 

[Scott Lloyd]

2 minutes ago, Brian 2.0 said:

Yes. sorry. I'm still not good at dealing with multiple quotes. I should be better.

That was geared more towards USU78. I understand your position and have no beef with it. 

's all good.

[Daniel2]

Can bishops and stake presidents receive inspiration for their wards or stakes that contradict policies enacted by leadership in Salt Lake? Does God reveal specific instructions to different groups of Saints adapted to the circumstances in which they find themselves...?

[kllindley]

53 minutes ago, cinepro said:

Because unless the Church is willing to admit that its version of the Plan of Salvation is a total failure when applied to people that don't desire heterosexual marriage (and the children that result) and just write off that entire community (and their families and loved ones), something is going to have to change.

If the Church does decide to try and actually help gays and lesbians, the first thing it's going to have to do is stop calling the Plan of Salvation the "Plan of Happiness" and instead call it "The Plan of Heterosexual Happiness, but Homosexual Life-long Frustration and Depression, Possibly Leading to Suicide but Hopefully They'll Stick it Out and Be Magically Transformed Into Heterosexuals in the Hereafter."

It's a little longer, but more accurate.

I liked the post, but I'm just going to voice my disagreement with this part. Maybe you were going for hyperbole, but I don't think that's helpful. 

[kllindley]

3 minutes ago, Daniel2 said:

Can bishops and stake presidents receive inspiration for their wards or stakes that contradict policies enacted by leadership in Salt Lake? Does God reveal specific instructions to different groups of Saints adapted to the circumstances in which they find themselves...?

Of course.

Unless, of course, you disagree with that inspiration. 😉

[Scott Lloyd]

17 minutes ago, Thinking said:

I think that some of the reactions in this thread are an indication of why dealing with the LGBT issue is so difficult for the Church. If the Church stays the course, it risks losing members. If the Church gives in by way of a claimed revelation, it risks losing members. Will the Church choose a course that loses the fewest members or will it choose what it thinks is right and let the consequences follow?

I think the Church is already following the only reasonable course that is open to it. Church leaders are being as inclusive and loving as they can be while still maintaining their integrity. It goes to what President Oaks said at the First Presidency news conference about balancing love and law.

 

[kllindley]

12 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I'll admit that occurred to me.

At the very least, it consumed nearly two hours of the three-hour Sabbath worship block and pre-empted that day's Sunday School lessons and Melchizedek Priesthood and Relief Society meetings.

 

So, after three suicide attempts in our Ward in the last four months, one of which was completed, it Bishop and Ward Council felt inspired to ask a local doctor with experience as a mission doctor and area missionary medical coordinator to address all adults during the 2 and 3 bloc on the topic of mental illness and how we can help b each other. 

Equal waste of time?

[JAHS]

31 minutes ago, Daniel2 said:

Can bishops and stake presidents receive inspiration for their wards or stakes that contradict policies enacted by leadership in Salt Lake?

No, but which policies are you referring to here?

Edited to add.  Some policies come with the disclaimer that local units can make adaptations where necessary.

31 minutes ago, Daniel2 said:

Does God reveal specific instructions to different groups of Saints adapted to the circumstances in which they find themselves...?

Yes, these kind of things happen all the time and can come under the discernment and inspiration of the local leaders.

Edited January 31, 2018 by JAHS

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, kllindley said:

So, after three suicide attempts in our Ward in the last four months, one of which was completed, it Bishop and Ward Council felt inspired to ask a local doctor with experience as a mission doctor and area missionary medical coordinator to address all adults during the 2 and 3 bloc on the topic of mental illness and how we can help b each other. 

Equal waste of time?

We had a special combined meeting a number of years ago when a young mother committed suicide, for pretty much the same reason (also to help the ward family mourn together and comfort each other to help with the shock and grief).

[The Nehor]

I dislike this kind of junk. It is cruel to everyone involved:

Rank and File Members: Confused at mixed messages.

Those with SSA: Cruel false hope that there is strong possibility of change.

Those watching from the Outside: Potential media circus about the defiant local leader being crushed by Salt Lake.

Local Leaders: Risking callings and membership.

Higher Leaders: Have to waste time cleaning up the mess and get egg all over their faces.

 

Like Scott, this assumes that this is being reported correctly. I would be surprised if everything said was accurate.

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, kllindley said:

So, after three suicide attempts in our Ward in the last four months, one of which was completed, it Bishop and Ward Council felt inspired to ask a local doctor with experience as a mission doctor and area missionary medical coordinator to address all adults during the 2 and 3 bloc on the topic of mental illness and how we can help b each other. 

Equal waste of time?

I wouldn't say it's a waste of time at all.

Was there an equally urgent impetus for the ward in Riverton? (I'm not calling that a waste of time either, by the way).

 

Edited January 31, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[pogi]

47 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I am expressing some concern, yes.  And not just about those 7 words.

I am not interested in picking at nits.  My concerns, which I have made quite clear, are not trivial.

That does not address the point I am making.  Here it is again:

I agree that LGBT youth need attention.  I am all for that.  My concern is when this "attention" amounts to a bishop and stake presidency authorizing the use of the Church's facilities and formal Sunday services for what appears to be - to some extent - the advocacy/justification of conduct that is prohibited by the Church, that is grounds for excommunication. 

You are?  How do you know that?

Ho hum, eh?  That's it?  What may have happened is the justification/excusing/rationalization of excommunicable conduct by people in open transgression, who have been invited by local leaders to use the Church's facilities and formal Sunday services to advance those efforts.

And all you can say is "Well, it happens?"

Can you appreciate that others might be a bit more alarmed at such a prospect?

It's not a matter of fear.  

Addressing the Saints during Sunday services, in consecrated buildings, is very much a privilege.

Have you ever wondered by people who are under church discipline, or who have been excommunicated, are not allowed to give talks, offer prayers, etc. during Church services?  Why do you think that is?

Have there been meetings in church where porn addicts have been asked by local priesthood leaders to use Sunday services to present to the assembled Saints a justification/excusing/rationalization of their porn addiction?  

I sense you are not grasping the concerns being voiced here.

Yes, please provide it.  Chapter and verse.

Meanwhile, I wonder if you've encountered information like this:

Hmm. The Latter-day Saints who are at increased risk for suicide, then, are those who do not live according to the teachings of the LDS Church.

More here:

Put another way, the teachings of the LDS Church (or religion in general) decrease the risk of suicide.  This rather contradicts the whole "We can't advocate the doctrines of the Church, because that increases the risk of suicide"-style of argument.

It's about a lot more than "optics."  A lot more.

It's a fairly significant deviation from the Church's policies.  I question whether local leaders have the discretion and stewardship to color outside of the lines this far.

Scott addressed this point, too.  

The same could be said for letting Denver Snuffer present his views during Sunday services.  Would you be okay with that?

Thanks,

-Smac

Smac, I appreciate your concerns, I just don't agree with them.  I see a lot of misunderstanding with what I have said, but responding to everyone has become increasingly difficult.  But I will respect your CFR.  Yes, I am aware of information that you have quoted form the Journal of Epidemiology.  The study that I have discussed thoroughly in the other thread acknowledges that evidence, but found that LGBT youth, unlike their hetero counterparts, are at increased risk:

Quote

 

Generally, religiosity (i.e., level of religious dedication, belief, and religious activity) is considered a protective factor against negative mental health outcomes. A recent systematic review by Wong, Rew, and Slaikeu (2006) found that religiosity and religious affiliation among the general population are associated with positive mental health outcomes for young adults and adolescents. Other research has found that religious affiliation and religiosity are associated with lower levels of depression in adolescents (Cotton, Larkin, Hoopes, Cromer, & Rosenthal, 2005) and in young adults (Taliaferro, Rienzo, Pigg, Miller, & Dodd, 2009), and lower rates of suicidality in adolescents (Rew, Thomas, Horner, Resnick, & Beuhring, 2001) and in young adults (Taliaferro et al., 2009). A strong correlation, however, also exists between level of religiosity and negative attitudes toward homosexuality (Rowatt, LaBouff, Johnson, Froese, & Tsang, 2009). Additionally, the majority of Americans (57%) identify religious belief (belief in God) as a requisite for moral judgment (Kohut, Wike, & Horowitz, 2007). Due to these factors, LGBT persons who mature in a religious community context report experiencing increased discrimination and internalized homophobia (i.e., negative attitudes, beliefs, feelings, and stereotypes about LGBT people that is directed inward by someone with same-sex attraction or feelings of discontent with one’s biological gender; Barnes & Meyer, 2012; Harris, Cook, & Kashubeck-West, 2008; Kralovec, Fartacek, Fartacek, & Plöderl, 2012; Shilo & Savaya, 2012)...

...those who report unresolved conflict between their sexuality and religious beliefs report significantly higher rates of internalized homophobia, when compared to those who did not mature in a religious environment (B=.964, SE=.076, t=12.718, p<.001). Similarly, having parents with anti-homosexual religious beliefs is significantly associated with a .289 (SE=.046) increase in internalized homophobia (t=6.298, p<001).

...There were two important clinical implications found in the current study. First, it may seem counterintuitive that when individuals choose to leave their religion in order to experience more self-acceptance that they inadvertently experience more risk for suicide. Clinicians should be aware that leaving one’s religion of origin may add additional stressors that ultimately place a client at additional risk for suicide. Further, the negative impact felt from leaving one’s religion due to conflict has a stronger impact than the positive indirect impact through a reduction in internalized homophobia. As many LGBT young adults often experience multiple levels of loss, clinical interventions should ideally entail a plan for enhancing supportive resources without risk of further isolation from communities of historical significance to the client (i.e., loss of community, potential loss of protective belief structure). This may involve encouraging clients to be involved in communities that incorporate their religious tradition and their LGBT identity, which has been found qualitatively to be supportive (Jaspal & Cinnirella, 2010; Thumma, 1991). Second, it is apparent that LGBT young adults who experience religious identity conflict are at significant risk for suicide. When individuals experience conflict with an accepted belief structure this can cause a great deal of distress, which may lead to a desire to escape. For this reason, suicide risk assessments could be enhanced by further understanding the loss of spiritual resources and subsequent challenges adjusting to this loss.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4706071/

 

What is the take away?  1) Religious LGBT youth are at increased risk.  2) Leaving the church may NOT be the best thing to do.  3) Changing doctrines is NOT the answer.  4) These youth need our support and understanding more than just about anybody.   

Edited January 31, 2018 by pogi

[Rich Hansen]

Let's suppose that Church leadership urged members and local leaders to show compassion and understanding towards the LGBT community.  Let's further suppose that this ward took that directive to heart and decided to do it in the way they thought best.

 

[USU78]

1 hour ago, Brian 2.0 said:

Passion and activism for a cause spilling into his church calling isn't necessarily a bad thing. The passion and activism would need to be misguided first.

Someone who's passionate and an activist regarding adoption or emergency preparedness are welcome additions to callings. It even makes them appropriate for certain callings. 

So it's not the passion or activism per say, it's what he's passionate or an activist for that seems to bother you.

Are you assuming he's passionate about bullying and shaming? Why can't he be passionate and an activist for treating everyone in their midst with love and understanding and that's the passion he brought to the meeting.

Are you claiming the bishop was bullying and shaming people?

Nope. Though I suspect exactly that was going on I lack sufficient evidence. I am reasonably confident his compassion is focused and not widespread.

[USU78]

1 hour ago, Brian 2.0 said:

Jacob 2. All of the chapter pretty much supplies the CFR request, but here is a snippet.

13 And the hand of providence hath smiled upon you most pleasingly, that you have obtained many riches; and because some of you have obtained more abundantly than that of your brethren ye are lifted up in the pride of your hearts, and wear stiff necks and high heads because of the costliness of your apparel, and persecute your brethren because ye suppose that ye are better than they.

14 And now, my brethren, do ye suppose that God justifieth you in this thing? Behold, I say unto you, Nay. But he condemneth you, and if ye persist in these things his judgments must speedily come unto you.

15 O that he would show you that he can pierce you, and with one glance of his eye he can smite you to the dust!

16 O that he would rid you from this iniquity and abomination. And, O that ye would listen unto the word of his commands, and let not this pride of your hearts destroy your souls!

17 Think of your brethren like unto yourselves, and be familiar with all and free with your substance, that theymay be rich like unto you.

18 But before ye seek for riches, seek ye for the kingdom of God.

19 And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them; and ye will seek them for the intent to do good—to clothe the naked, and to feed the hungry, and to liberate the captive, and administer relief to the sick and the afflicted.

20 And now, my brethren, I have spoken unto you concerning pride; and those of you which have afflicted your neighbor, and persecuted him because ye were proud in your hearts, of the things which God hath given you, what say ye of it?

As I suspected.

[Bob Crockett]

Hey, I applaud this bishop's actions.  Maybe not an enthusiastic applause, but certainly I think bishops under the direction of their stake presidents should be able to do anything within reason.  The letter of the law (in the handbook) killeth, the spirit giveth life.  

I remember as a bishop doing weird things, like calling active out-of-wedlock persons (gay and straight), and even a non-member everybody thought was a member,  to significant callings, hoping they'd want to repent.  Probably wasn't right, but I look back today and see some success. I wouldn't have done it if my stake president told me not to do so, but he didn't know.

Our gay members are very unhappy people, in my view.  Why not help them to find happiness, because deep down someday they may want to get back in line.

I, however, feel more sympathy for the plygs and wish we could try and bring them into the fold.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Bob Crockett

[Brian 2.0]

9 minutes ago, USU78 said:

As I suspected.

are you saying I didn't fulfill the CFR? Are you still challenging my claim? Honest question, I don't know what you mean my this.

[Calm]

15 minutes ago, USU78 said:

I am reasonably confident his compassion is focused and not widespread.

And why would you think that?

[USU78]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

And why would you think that?

Occupational hazard. Experience. Cynical eye towards trendylefty advocacy groups, indeed all advocacy groups. Distrust of gospel hobbyists. Disgust at the truly despicable position that the real problem is the judger, when those taking that position are themselves judgers.

That sort of thing.

Christ didn't condemn the adultress, and neither do I: but neither He nor I are deceived for a moment that she's an adultress. 

J'accuse the accurate observer's judger.

[Calm]

And yet they have adopted what looks like several kids....

Undoubtedly that was just selfishness.

And his wife is off helping with eye exams and surgeries possibly in the Caribbean (I am not that great on recognizing flora).

add-on:  guessing it is Haiti from other posts, but not certain.

Their son-in-law is in the new Genesis presidency, saw two sons sent off on missions and another child married in the temple.

She takes care of new babies at the hospital (add-on:  besides hospital, Hope Clinic which is a free clinic https://www.facebook.com/Hope-Clinic-240691409304037/ 

Edited January 31, 2018 by Calm

[provoman]

from the facebook page

 

Quote

Hi friends! We received word from the the LDS church that we are unable to post the video from the meeting. We were under the impression that only sacrament meeting was not to be filmed because of the sacredness of the chapel. but we did not realize that filming is not allowed during the entire 3 hour block even if it is not in the chapel. I am a optimist by nature and feel so happy that this meeting took place and that we could share the love and understanding that bonded all of us in that room. It was truly miraculous and very sacred. I will be asking all of our speakers to let me post the written portion of their talks so that you may read them and feel of their spirit and also that you may be able to share their messages with those in your families, wards, stakes and communities. Our baptismal covenant reminds us daily to bare one another’s burdens and I invite everyone to do just this by following the counsel of Elder Ballard and reaching out to all of your lgbtq brothers and sisters and really listen to them and try to understand what it may be like to walk in their shoes. My life is better because I listened. In my opinion God will only ask one question when we die and that question is, “Did you learn to love the people I put in your life the way I love them?” I feel like I have witnessed Heaven on earth this last year and I am grateful for all of the kind posts and feedback about our special meeting. I hope you can take this message and flood the earth! Love you all!

Please if any of you are saddened by not being able to watch the video, I ask for my sake that you don’t use this as an opportunity to lash out or create a negative storm with your comments. This meeting was planned and executed with only love and compassion in mind. I want to keep the momentum in a positive and productive direction. So as respect to all that were involved please don’t reply with negative comments. Use your energy and comments to build bridges and continue to create change that will fill homes, churches and communities with more love!

 

So there seems a basis for the hesitant opinions expressed regarding this meeting.

[Tacenda]

This was posted on FB, my friend is a friend of this person. I guess there won't be a video. 

"Hi friends! We received word from the the LDS church that we are unable to post the video from the meeting. We were under the impression that only sacrament meeting was not to be filmed because of the sacredness of the chapel. but we did not realize that filming is not allowed during the entire 3 hour block even if it is not in the chapel. I am a optimist by nature and feel so happy that this meeting took place and that we could share the love and understanding that bonded all of us in that room. It was truly miraculous and very sacred. I will be asking all of our speakers to let me post the written portion of their talks so that you may read them and feel of their spirit and also that you may be able to share their messages with those in your families, wards, stakes and communities. Our baptismal covenant reminds us daily to bare one another’s burdens and I invite everyone to do just this by following the counsel of Elder Ballard and reaching out to all of your lgbtq brothers and sisters and really listen to them and try to understand what it may be like to walk in their shoes. My life is better because I listened. In my opinion God will only ask one question when we die and that question is, “Did you learn to love the people I put in your life the way I love them?” I feel like I have witnessed Heaven on earth this last year and I am grateful for all of the kind posts and feedback about our special meeting. I hope you can take this message and flood the earth! Love you all!

Please if any of you are saddened by not being able to watch the video, I ask for my sake that you don’t use this as an opportunity to lash out or create a negative storm with your comments. This meeting was planned and executed with only love and compassion in mind. I want to keep the momentum in a positive and productive direction. So as respect to all that were involved please don’t reply with negative comments. Use your energy and comments to build bridges and continue to create change that will fill homes, churches and communities with more love!"

 

This post was before the news they weren't able to show the video:

The video of the Sunday meeting about loving and supporting our LGBTQ 🏳️‍🌈 brothers and sisters is still under works. Here is the outline for now that Bishop Augenstein followed for the meeting and the exact words he delivered. Please feel free to read and share with your loved ones and wards and stakes as a template of a discussion or a meeting that would promote more love and support for our amazing lgbtq friends.

January 28th, 2017
Intro
I would like to thank everyone for being at this very special meeting today. As many of you know, Susie and I have been very involved this last year in serving and getting to know many of our LGBTQ brothers and sisters. We have spent hours at a place in Provo called The Encircle House which serves members of this community in helping to prevent teen suicide and homelessness. Believe it or not, these difficult circumstances not only exist but are currently skyrocketing. While tragic on one hand, it has brought so much love and joy into our lives as we have sat and really listened to our new friends about what it means to be gay. I am humbled and quite frankly in awe of some of the people you are about to meet today and their stories. In this meeting, we are going to hear from three different perspectives all of which need our love and support. 
We are going to hear from people in the LGBTQ community who are active in the LDS church and need you all to understand what it feels like to be in a church where people still view them at times like they don’t belong and explain what they need from us. 
We are going to hear from some who have stepped away from the church but still have beautiful ties and families in the faith and still desire to be loved and valued even though their viewpoints don’t coincide with LDS doctrine. 
Lastly, we will hear from families in the church with LGBTQ children who desire love and support from their ward families and a great desire for their children and grandchildren to be loved and accepted by their ward members whether their kids choose to stay apart of the mainstream church or not.

The people within the LGBTQ community need us, and today I am giving you a chance to hear their stories and to ask yourself at the end of this meeting “what would my savior have me do? How would He have me talk about and treat people who are not exactly like me? What is it that Heavenly Father would have me learn? I pray that the spirit will be with all of us during this meeting and that we can not only listen with our ears, but really listen with our minds and hearts to gain a better understanding about those within the LGBTQ community. And from that, create an increased level of pure love for God and ALL of his children.

The agenda for the meeting will proceed as follows:
Kent Carollo – Graphic Designer and presenter at the annual “Affirmation” symposium which is an outreach program for Mormon LGBTQ families and friends
Ben Schilaty – Spanish Professor at BYU, also a presenter at Affirmation.
George and Alyson Deussen – Proud parents of their son Stockton who recently lost his life to suicide.
Musical Number “Nearer My God to Thee” by Cole Rasmussen and Max Eddington
Jordan Sgro – Chief Program Officer at Encircle House
Our concluding speaker will be Sister Debi Day and her daughter Morgan Burdi

Conclusion
Thank those who participated today in our program.
I pray it was as informative, edifying, and faith promoting.

Matthew 12
46 ¶ While (Jesus) yet talked to the people, behold, ... his brethren (and sisters) stood without, desiring to speak with him.
47 Then one said unto him, Behold, …. thy brethren and sisters stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, who are my brethren and sisters?

(I’d like to ask those who are with us today who are part of the LGBTQ community and their families to stand if they feel comfortable to do so –

49 And he (The Savior) stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold …… my brethren and sisters!
50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother and sister, …

(thank you – you may sit down)

My Brothers and sisters – Friends - the will of Our Father in Heaven – what our Heavenly Father really wants for all of us - first and foremost -- is that we “love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first “and great” commandment.
31 And the second is like unto it, namely this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.”

But Like Nephi in the Book of Mormon, “I do not know the meaning of all things. But I know that He loveth His Children.”
Continuing the Dialogue in the B of M, the angel speaking with Nephi in this exchange goes on to ask him, “do you know the meaning of the tree that your father saw? Nephi answered,” Yea, it is the love of God, which sheddeth itself abroad in the hearts of the children of men; wherefore, it is the most desirable above all things. 23 And he spake unto me, saying: Yea, and the most joyous to the soul. “
However, Brothers and sisters - that joy is fleeting and difficult to come by for many; specifically, our LGBTQ friends.
Elder M. Russell Ballard said the following in a speech given at BYU on November 14th, 2017:
“Every member has a place in God’s kingdom. It may be difficult sometimes for gay Latter-day Saints to see “where you fit in the Lord’s church but you do.” Mormon leaders, along with the rank and file, need to “listen to and understand what LGBT members are feeling and experiencing. We must do better than we have in the past until all feel they have a spiritual home … a place to worship and serve the Lord.”

I too believe, with Elder Ballard that we must do better in assisting our LGBTQ brothers and sisters in helping them find a spiritual home so the joy of the restored Gospel can be efficacious in all who enter here. Someday, the sign outside our churches might say “ALL are welcome” not just “visitors.”
In conclusion, I have tasted of this fruit of which the Angel spoke, and it is truly desirable above all things. The love, understanding and compassion I have for my friends within the LGBTQ community has grown immensely and caused me to reflect deeply on “who my brethren and sisters are” and what my role is in their lives. Our role- Our purpose - is to love…love unconditionally without judgement or condemnation.
I hope that this afternoon, you have in the Prophet Alma’s words, “felt to sing the song of his redeeming love” as we all apply the power of Christ’s Infinite atonement in allowing it to transform US into the charitable sons and daughters he intends for us to be, and I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, our Savior, Amen.

Bishop Paul Augenstein, Parkway Ward, Riverton Utah Summerhill Stake"

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[The Nehor]

The name of the bishop and the unit check out.