Unique Circumstances in Filling Apostle Vacancy

[Button Gwinnett]

I recognize that my timing may be poor considering that it has only just been announced that Elder Hales has passed away and I do extend my condolences to this loving gentle man's family. But with President Monson also being in a deminished health condition I'm curious to know if his involvement is necessarily to fill the new vacancy?

I know that once the president passes away quorum seniority takes over and vacancies can be filled by the remaining quorum members, but I'm just not clear what the process will be considering President Monsons current incapacities and how they may impact the process.

i can't think of another time in church history when the church has faced circumstances quite like this, am I wrong? Does anyone have some insight?

If my question is I'll timed or inappropriate feel free to remove it, I mean no disrespect 

Edited October 1, 2017 by Button Gwinnett

[rpn]

In recent years, we've learned that the prophet usually asks for suggestions, there is apparently some kind of background check of those proposed, but ultimately it is the prophet alone who chooses.

We don't know how lucid and together President Monson is.  But in the past new apostles haven't been named for months even when presidents are fully healthy.

[Button Gwinnett]

4 minutes ago, rpn said:

In recent years, we've learned that the prophet usually asks for suggestions, there is apparently some kind of background check of those proposed, but ultimately it is the prophet alone who chooses.

We don't know how lucid and together President Monson is.  But in the past new apostles haven't been named for months even when presidents are fully healthy.

Yes and this goes to the core of my question, if the prophet is still living but incapacitated, can the vacancy be filled or must we wait for nature to run its course?

[Scott Lloyd]

On the other hand, there is precedent for not waiting until the next general conference to name a new apostle. 

[rongo]

What good would it do to let nature run its course, if it's the president's sole decision, and the president is incapacitated?

I think the answer is that it would be the FP decision; probably the 1st counselor (Eyring). 

By far, the largest pool for apostles in recent times has been the presiding bishopric (Eyring, Hales, Stevenson, maybe others I'm not thinking of) and church university presidents (Oaks, Holland, Bednar).

[rpn]

The Lord is clearly able to make it possible for the prophet to fully function long enough to call an apostle, or not, as He chooses.    So while a prophet couldn't do it incapacitated, if we have a new Apostle named, we'll know that at least for long enough to do so, the prophet has been fully functioning.

[Avatar4321]

I was wondering if president Monson would still make the choice if he dies before next conference as well

[katherine the great]

Were there no new apostles called while President Benson was incapacitated? I don't remember, but I do remember that he was unable to truly participate for a very long time before his death.

[rongo]

3 minutes ago, rpn said:

The Lord is clearly able to make it possible for the prophet to fully function long enough to call an apostle, or not, as He chooses.    So while a prophet couldn't do it incapacitated, if we have a new Apostle named, we'll know that at least for long enough to do so, the prophet has been fully functioning.

What if passed away before he made that decision, though? 

Do we have precedent for that? Normally, when a president is gone, the presidency is dissolved, but in the Church, the FP (a quorum) has run the Church and functioned without a capacitated president. I think that, as far as practice goes, it would fall to the 1st counselor then. 

It is an interesting technical question.

[Duncan]

16 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

Were there no new apostles called while President Benson was incapacitated? I don't remember, but I do remember that he was unable to truly participate for a very long time before his death.

Elder Hales was called when Elder Ashton died during the Presidency of Pres. Benson, how much input from him I have no idea

[Button Gwinnett]

May have found my answer, evidently a cognitive president is not required.  Ironically Elder Hales was called while President Benson was also incapacitated.  In fact less than 2 month prior to President Benson's death. 

2 April 1994 

Robert D. Hales added to the Quorum.

30 May 1994 

Ezra Taft Benson dies.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Button Gwinnett

[rongo]

The real question is: whose decision is it, then? 

[Guest]

34 minutes ago, Button Gwinnett said:

Yes and this goes to the core of my question, if the prophet is still living but incapacitated, can the vacancy be filled or must we wait for nature to run its course?

I thing I President Monson's case, he is just old and can barley stand. So, my guess is he will be able to approve any name submitted. But as long as he lives, the 1st Presidency remains in tact, and there are still enough Apostles to form a full quorum. Int eh Quorum of the twelve Apostles rest all the keys of the Priesthood. They acted as a body when (then) Elder Hickley was added to the1st Presidency. 

Side Note: Button Gwinnett, is a name that not many outside Georgia know. Lifelong Georgian here, so I know that name well.  

[rodheadlee]

4 minutes ago, rongo said:

The real question is: whose decision is it, then? 

Jesus Christ's

[Duncan]

the Lord has already foreordained someone and now the 1st Presidency/Apostles have to find who it is. Sometimes it seems that they nominate people and other times it seems the Prophet already had it revealed who it would without any nominations, or sometimes it could be none of who is nominated-I obviously have zero experience with this but just on what I have read from others who have

[rongo]

4 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

Jesus Christ's

That goes without saying. What I meant was, whose task is it to discern that, in the absence of the president?

[Avatar4321]

11 minutes ago, rongo said:

The real question is: whose decision is it, then? 

God's

[Button Gwinnett]

3 minutes ago, rongo said:

That goes without saying. What I meant was, whose task is it to discern that, in the absence of the president?

Speculation here, but it appears that when President Benson was incapacitated his councilors made the choice with the sustaining approval of the quorum of 12 so evidently a fullly mentally capable president is not required.  The church goes on.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Button Gwinnett

[rodheadlee]

16 minutes ago, rongo said:

That goes without saying. What I meant was, whose task is it to discern that, in the absence of the president?

Ok, I was just checking.

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Button Gwinnett said:

I recognize that my timing may be poor considering that it has only just been announced that Elder Hales has passed away and I do extend my condolences to this loving gentle man's family. But with President Monson also being in a deminished health condition I'm curious to know if his involvement is necessarily to fill the new vacancy?

I know that once the president passes away quorum seniority takes over and vacancies can be filled by the remaining quorum members, but I'm just not clear what the process will be considering President Monsons current incapacities and how they may impact the process.

i can't think of another time in church history when the church has faced circumstances quite like this, am I wrong? Does anyone have some insight?

If my question is I'll timed or inappropriate feel free to remove it, I mean no disrespect 

Here are some pertinent scriptures...

D&C107

Quote

23 The twelve traveling councilors are called to be the Twelve Apostles, or special witnesses of the name of Christ in all the world--thus differing from other officers in the church in the duties of their calling.
24 And they form a quorum, equal in authority and power to the three presidents previously mentioned.
25 The Seventy are also called to preach the gospel, and to be especial witnesses unto the Gentiles and in all the world--thus differing from other officers in the church in the duties of their calling.
26 And they form a quorum, equal in authority to that of the Twelve special witnesses or Apostles just named.
27 And every decision made by either of these quorums must be by the unanimous voice of the same; that is, every member in each quorum must be agreed to its decisions, in order to make their decisions of the same power or validity one with the other--
28 A majority may form a quorum when circumstances render it impossible to be otherwise--
29 Unless this is the case, their decisions are not entitled to the same blessings which the decisions of a quorum of three presidents were anciently, who were ordained after the order of Melchizedek, and were righteous and holy men.
30 The decisions of these quorums, or either of them, are to be made in all righteousness, in holiness, and lowliness of heart, meekness and long-suffering, and in faith, and virtue, and knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and charity;

 

[katherine the great]

1 hour ago, Duncan said:

Elder Hales was called when Elder Ashton died during the Presidency of Pres. Benson, how much input from him I have no idea

That is very ironic.

[strappinglad]

24 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

28 A majority may form a quorum when circumstances render it impossible to be otherwise--

2 out of three is a majority. There is a precedence for drawing lots if necessary.

[The Nehor]

16 hours ago, strappinglad said:

2 out of three is a majority. There is a precedence for drawing lots if necessary.

So run a randomized pick through the membership records to pick someone. Better keep my phone handy over the coming weeks.  

Edited October 2, 2017 by The Nehor

[Rain]

It's possible that President Monson already had someone in mind and has discussed it with one or all of the members as well. Not necessarily as Elder Hales' replacement, but just as the next apostle. 

[Robert F. Smith]

14 hours ago, Duncan said:

the Lord has already foreordained someone and now the 1st Presidency/Apostles have to find who it is. Sometimes it seems that they nominate people and other times it seems the Prophet already had it revealed who it would without any nominations, or sometimes it could be none of who is nominated-I obviously have zero experience with this but just on what I have read from others who have

Sounds a bit like choosing the next Dalai Lama by finding him.