Duncan Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 Kind of a spin off from the Elder Dunn thread but would you use a quotation, in a talk or lesson, from a General Authority who was exed from the Church? 1
smac97 Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 38 minutes ago, Duncan said: Kind of a spin off from the Elder Dunn thread but would you use a quotation, in a talk or lesson, from a General Authority who was exed from the Church? If the principle was sound, sure. We quote the Psalms all the time, despite the fact that David "fell." Thanks, -Smac 4
Storm Rider Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 I think it depends on the quote. I suspect that I might look for another equally good quote, but if I could not find one I would probably use their quote. I wish I did not feel any discomfort using a spiritual quote from an individual that has only proven they are human. An excommunicated individual does not equate to an individual with no merit or for having never been led by the Holy Spirit. They may have been a great speaker and a gifted theologian and teacher of the gospel and their accomplishments have merit. I refuse to completely discount an individual just because of a serious spiritual or moral error. I still use quotes form Elder Dunn and will continue to do so. Being human is not an irredeemable position. 3
Darren10 Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Duncan said: Kind of a spin off from the Elder Dunn thread but would you use a quotation, in a talk or lesson, from a General Authority who was exed from the Church? I've no problem doing that so long as it conformed to standard LDS doctrines. I actually met Elder Dunn in a ward I attended in Patomac, MD. I lived in that area while I did my student teaching internship in the DC school district. I went there for inner city experience. Anyway, Dunn was a good man. What impressed me most was that everyone there knew who he was but never brought up his past excommunication and he was fully active in Sunday School commentaries. It was good to know him. Edited September 29, 2017 by Darren10 1
Darren10 Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 18 minutes ago, smac97 said: If the principle was sound, sure. We quote the Psalms all the time, despite the fact that David "fell." Thanks, -Smac Interesting though that we rarely quote from the Song of Solomon.
smac97 Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 2 minutes ago, Darren10 said: Interesting though that we rarely quote from the Song of Solomon. Not really: "The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that the Song of Solomon is not an inspired writing." Moreover, much of the actual content of the book is . . . not really General Conference or Gospel Doctrine Class material. Thanks, -Smac
Darren10 Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 Just now, smac97 said: Not really: "The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that the Song of Solomon is not an inspired writing." Moreover, much of the actual content of the book is . . . not really General Conference or Gospel Doctrine Class material. Thanks, -Smac Yup. That's my understanding. It's intersting that some writings by the very same person can be from God while others inappropriate ro us to help bring oneself and others to God.
Calm Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Darren10 said: Anyway, Dunn was a good man. What impressed me most was that everyone there knew who he was but never brought up his past excommunication.... Dunn wasn't excommunicated, I believe. Wiki confirms: "The exact nature of this "heavy penalty" imposed upon Dunn is unclear. It is clear that Dunn was not excommunicated from the church, though it is not known whether or not he was placed under some other form of church discipline, such as disfellowshipment or probation." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_H._Dunn
Scott Lloyd Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Calm said: Dunn wasn't excommunicated, I believe. Wiki confirms: "The exact nature of this "heavy penalty" imposed upon Dunn is unclear. It is clear that Dunn was not excommunicated from the church, though it is not known whether or not he was placed under some other form of church discipline, such as disfellowshipment or probation." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_H._Dunn I think the "heavy penalty" was that he publicly acknowledge his wrongdoing. At the time, he wrote an open letter for publication in the Church News. There may have been other punitive measures imposed, but I think the humiliation of a public statement is substantial on its own. Edited September 29, 2017 by Scott Lloyd
The Nehor Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 1 hour ago, Darren10 said: Interesting though that we rarely quote from the Song of Solomon. Speak for yourself. 1
The Nehor Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 1 hour ago, smac97 said: Not really: "The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that the Song of Solomon is not an inspired writing." Moreover, much of the actual content of the book is . . . not really General Conference or Gospel Doctrine Class material. Thanks, -Smac Yeah, but the Doctrine and Covenants quotes the Song of Solomon. Puts the scripture in a weird zone between inspired and uninspired.
Darren10 Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 23 minutes ago, Calm said: Dunn wasn't excommunicated, I believe. Wiki confirms: "The exact nature of this "heavy penalty" imposed upon Dunn is unclear. It is clear that Dunn was not excommunicated from the church, though it is not known whether or not he was placed under some other form of church discipline, such as disfellowshipment or probation." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_H._Dunn Oh, perhaps that's true. I just remembered he was disciplined. 5 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Yeah, but the Doctrine and Covenants quotes the Song of Solomon. Puts the scripture in a weird zone between inspired and uninspired. This is getting more interesting by the minute!
Darren10 Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 7 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Speak for yourself. Nehor! What are you reading this time?
rpn Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 If you mean would you ever quote Paul Dunn. Unfortunately his credibility is entirely shot. No I wouldn't. There has only been two GA's excommunicated during the last 40 or 50 years. It is a safe bet that you can find an equally good quote of someone other than the two who were. But this question ought to prompt us each to think about whether we ought to be quoting GA's as much as we do anyway. Shouldn't we be quoting scriptures more? (Contra, "but GC talks are 'scriptures'.) 1
Atheist Mormon Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 9 hours ago, smac97 said: If the principle was sound, sure. We quote the Psalms all the time, despite the fact that David "fell." Thanks, -Smac That's a "first" for me to read one of the most popular guy in a falling mode.
CV75 Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 (edited) 11 hours ago, Duncan said: Kind of a spin off from the Elder Dunn thread but would you use a quotation, in a talk or lesson, from a General Authority who was exed from the Church? If you paid me. Six onties. Edited September 29, 2017 by CV75 1
rongo Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 8 hours ago, The Nehor said: Yeah, but the Doctrine and Covenants quotes the Song of Solomon. Puts the scripture in a weird zone between inspired and uninspired. He changed it to a different use. Clear as the sun, fair as the moon, and terrible as an army with banners --- in relation to the Church. Or something like that.
Guest Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 12 hours ago, Duncan said: Kind of a spin off from the Elder Dunn thread but would you use a quotation, in a talk or lesson, from a General Authority who was exed from the Church? Depending on the circumstances, Elder Dunn was not ex-ed, but overnight people did stop quoting him, his books disappeared from bookstores. It was a heartbreaking situation.
JLHPROF Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 9 hours ago, The Nehor said: Speak for yourself. You could get yourself in real trouble quoting Song of Solomon at Church. When we were young teenagers we would read it and giggle. That and any other "naughty story" in the Bible.
The Nehor Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 24 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: You could get yourself in real trouble quoting Song of Solomon at Church. When we were young teenagers we would read it and giggle. That and any other "naughty story" in the Bible. Nah, I quote it on dates. For some reason I am unmarried in my 30s. Probably no connection.
thesometimesaint Posted September 29, 2017 Posted September 29, 2017 I think we can use them when done with wisdom and care. 1
strappinglad Posted September 30, 2017 Posted September 30, 2017 I'm as fond of twin roes as the next guy , but there are lots of writings in scripture that one should avoid quoting in Sunday School. As for quoting GAs , I love the quotes of J Golden Kimball.
2BizE Posted September 30, 2017 Posted September 30, 2017 On 9/28/2017 at 8:47 PM, Duncan said: Kind of a spin off from the Elder Dunn thread but would you use a quotation, in a talk or lesson, from a General Authority who was exed from the Church? Would it be kosher to quote former Elder Hamula yet, or has not enough time gone by yet?
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