Mormons being distracted by body/perfectionism issues?

[bluebell]

11 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Anything that becomes more important to us than God can detract from our relationship with Him. "Thou shalt have no other gods before me" means anything we care more about than God. At least that's how I read it.

I agree, but that's so straightforward and obvious that few of us would purposefully put anything above God, right? 

I'm wondering if they troubling part of these issues is that they distract us from realizing anything is wrong.  Is spending a thousand dollars a year on hair/make-up/eyelash extensions when you only give 1/2 that much  to fast offering justifiable?  Probably not.  How many of us do that anyway (with whatever our pet hobbies/likes are).   Probably a lot of us.  Why are do we keep doing it?  Maybe because we're so distracted that we don't even realize we are.

I don't know.  Definitely something to think about...

[Jeanne]

4 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Fascinating that women in Utah can have breast augmentation surgery, a face lift, a tummy tuck and a butt sculpture and no one will give it a second thought (ok to be honest I'd take a second look) ...but Katie bar the door if she wears a second set of earrings or gets a tattoo.  Oh and we should stop blaming Satan for our individual choices...he's just an excuse, something to blame for our own mistakes and choices 

Oh...a home made rep for this post. 

[jkwilliams]

6 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I agree, but that's so straightforward and obvious that few of us would purposefully put anything above God, right? 

I'm wondering if they troubling part of these issues is that they distract us from realizing anything is wrong.  Is spending a thousand dollars a year on hair/make-up/eyelash extensions when you only give 1/2 that much  to fast offering justifiable?  Probably not.  How many of us do that anyway (with whatever our pet hobbies/likes are).   Probably a lot of us.  Why are do we keep doing it?  Maybe because we're so distracted that we don't even realize we are.

I don't know.  Definitely something to think about...

I would think it depends on the person. Knowing myself, I could make myself even more insane than I already am by worrying about what parts of my life I have unwittingly allowed to take precedence.

[Jeanne]

I have often wondered..even in my little home town..if there isn't a certain peer pressure of "keeping up with the Jones's."...a monetary value of some sort that is somehow measured  and figured into some perfection model. 

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

I would think it depends on the person. Knowing myself, I could make myself even more insane than I already am by worrying about what parts of my life I have unwittingly allowed to take precedence.

I think that's probably true for almost all of us.  

[Avatar4321]

33 minutes ago, bluebell said:

So leaving out the question of whether or not satan has anything to do with it, do silly distractions like looks, hobbies, and our phones distance us from God in detrimental ways?   

anything can

[strappinglad]

Satan teaches incorrect principles and we govern ourselves.

Obviously the women of Utah have way too much disposable income and too much time on their hands.

Pick up any women's magazine and see what the focus is. Are they aiming at a strictly LDS demographic? Being in the world but not of the world is getting harder all the time. And yes, a portion of the men are swayed by the GQ lifestyle.

[bluebell]

Just now, strappinglad said:

Satan teaches incorrect principles and we govern ourselves.

Obviously the women of Utah have way too much disposable income and too much time on their hands.

Pick up any women's magazine and see what the focus is. Are they aiming at a strictly LDS demographic? Being in the world but not of the world is getting harder all the time. And yes, a portion of the men are swayed by the GQ lifestyle.

We just had a lesson on sunday in YWs about being in the world but not of the world.  I think that a lot of us LDS don't see the ways that we fail at that.

[stemelbow]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

We just had a lesson on sunday in YWs about being in the world but not of the world.  I think that a lot of us LDS don't see the ways that we fail at that.

Mostly because it's an ill defined awkward teaching.  

[Calm]

2 hours ago, MorningStar said:

Satan made me eat ice cream for lunch yesterday.  

I have homemade maple bacon ice cream in my fridge.  Feel free to come visit.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

That is correct...I only know of active LDS women who removed their earrings from multiple earring to one after being instructed to do so...and I am unaware of any active LDS woman who got a tattoo while being active...other than the aforementioned eyebrow tattoo's

Did they actually tell you this or are you assuming because you observed it?

I don't wear pierced earrings anymore...any earrings for that matter, but it is an issue of comfort only.  I know of a few women who got more than one piercing and then hated they had to keep wearing multiple earrings to keep them open.  Whether they finally gave up and let it seal, I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised.

I am not saying this is the primary reason one might see an LDS woman with empty ear piercings, I just believe one shouldn't assume why women (or anyone else) makes a choice unless they tell you why.

And the whole "silent shaming " may be reading into others' behaviour stuff they don't mean at all, after all it is "silent", right?  How would one know why without being told?

Edited September 12, 2017 by Calm

[Calm]

I think the "keeping up with the Jones" type of peer pressure (usually unintentional because it is a person projecting their need onto others) may be somewhat more intense in Utah because of how close knit the neighbourhoods are if someone is already prone to that kind of awareness.  There are pros and cons to knowing one's neighbours so well.  I think the pros way outweigh the negative, but I am not someone who cares much about how others are living lifestylewise as long as they are happy and the yard is clean (I like things orderly, so I don't like a cluttered look especially with dead cars, etc.; I am being punished for my obsession because my husband is oblivious to clutter and leaves tools out all over the yard or piles things in the garage without putting them away no matter how much shelving etc. we have in the garage).  

Iactually worry less about the way .I appear because I know the neighbourhood knows me well enough to not worry if I show up in my pajamas at the door.  I love being able to walk down the street and the kids don't worry about who I am and often come over to say hi and the parents say how nice it is to see me out and about.  Never had that happen before even after ten years of living in one place in Canada, which was fantastic in many other ways, but neighbours were strangers expect for a few rare exceptions.  In Illinois we only knew next door neighbours even though there were no fences allowed and kids would congregate in our backyard because Dad had built a playhouse and massive swing set.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Calm

[Johnnie Cake]

27 minutes ago, Calm said:

Did they actually tell you this or are you assuming because you observed it?

I don't wear pierced earrings anymore...any earrings for that matter, but it is an issue of comfort only.  I know of a few women who got more than one piercing and then hated they had to keep wearing multiple earrings to keep them open.  Whether they finally gave up and let it seal, I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised.

I am not saying this is the primary reason one might see an LDS woman with empty ear piercings, I just believe one shouldn't assume why women (or anyone else) makes a choice unless they tell you why.

And the whole "silent shaming " may be reading into others' behaviour stuff they don't mean at all, after all it is "silent", right?  How would one know why without being told?

These are submissive, believing female members of the church...who prior to Presidents Hinckley's admonition wore multiple earrings...and now only wear 1

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

These are submissive, believing female members of the church...who prior to Presidents Hinckley's admonition wore multiple earrings...and now only wear 1

And you know this because you are omniscient or because they told you in some fashion?

I prefer to let women and men to speak for themselves.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Calm

[ksfisher]

15 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

These are submissive, believing female members of the church...who prior to Presidents Hinckley's admonition wore multiple earrings...and now only wear 1

It's sounds as if you are shaming them for choosing to follow the prophet.

Edited September 12, 2017 by ksfisher

[bluebell]

26 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Mostly because it's an ill defined awkward teaching.  

It's an awesome teaching.

Being 'of' something means you are an actual part of it.  Being in something just denotes location.  If you have a glass of lemonade with ice in it, the ice is in the drink but it's not of the drink.  The lemon is of the drink.  

Who you are 'of' is who you belong to, who you're a part of.  We live in the world but we should not belong to it or be a part of it.  We are of God, we are a part of Him.  The world is not our tribe.  God is our tribe.

[bluebell]

25 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

These are submissive, believing female members of the church...who prior to Presidents Hinckley's admonition wore multiple earrings...and now only wear 1

If you want to assume that they took out extra earrings because of what Hinckley said then I'm fine with that, but how can you say that they did so because of silent shaming when they didn't tell you that's why they did it??  

Edited September 12, 2017 by bluebell

[ksfisher]

1 hour ago, strappinglad said:

 

Obviously the women of Utah have way too much disposable income and too much time on their hands.

 

It would probably be best to not lump all women in Utah into one stereotype.  I'm not actually aware of any women in my ward who have had plastic surgery.  There are also those who work very hard at more than one job and don't have a lot of money. 

[Johnnie Cake]

34 minutes ago, bluebell said:

If you want to assume that they took out extra earrings because of what Hinckley said then I'm fine with that, but how can you say that they did so because of silent shaming when they didn't tell you that's why they did it??  

Within Mormonism culture there is an undercurrent that is always present...eyes always watching what each other is doing...always on watch for some misstep by a member of the ward or church.  Its subtle, its often unsaid, but its there...always lurking and watching what other Mormon's are doing....the quiet silent judgement of fellow Mormons watching each other to make sure no one steps out of line or does something that the church might disapprove of. It's particularly present when a Mormon you might know missteps...usually then its seen as an anonymous tip to the relief society president or the bishop or elders quorum president so that the "sin" might be corrected.  I've personally seen it felt it in Starbucks...when I've seen members of the church seeking their morning coffee...looking over their shoulders...always aware of the fact that they are being watched, might get caught.  I experienced it when I was in the bishopric, when members reported other members behavior to me.  I experienced it in the High council when members turned in other members for their behavior and I've experienced myself when even after I left the church I was turned in by members who didn't yet know that I had left...so I know its real...and I've been on both ends of this cultural undercurrent

Edited September 12, 2017 by Johnnie Cake

[stemelbow]

54 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It's an awesome teaching.

Being 'of' something means you are an actual part of it.  Being in something just denotes location.  If you have a glass of lemonade with ice in it, the ice is in the drink but it's not of the drink.  The lemon is of the drink.  

Who you are 'of' is who you belong to, who you're a part of.  We live in the world but we should not belong to it or be a part of it.  We are of God, we are a part of Him.  The world is not our tribe.  God is our tribe.

Wha????awesome?  Ok time to start a new thread on this.  Maybe tomorrow

Edited September 12, 2017 by stemelbow

[bluebell]

50 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Within Mormonism culture there is an undercurrent that is always present...eyes always watching what each other is doing...always on watch for some misstep by a member of the ward or church.  Its subtle, its often unsaid, but its there...always lurking and watching what other Mormon's are doing....the quiet silent judgement of fellow Mormons watching each other to make sure no one steps out of line or does something that the church might disapprove of. It's particularly present when a Mormon you might know missteps...usually then its seen as an anonymous tip to the relief society president or the bishop or elders quorum president so that the "sin" might be corrected.  I've personally seen it felt it in Starbucks...when I've seen members of the church seeking their morning coffee...looking over their shoulders...always aware of the fact that they are being watched, might get caught.  I experienced it when I was in the bishopric, when members reported other members behavior to me.  I experienced it in the High council when members turned in other members for their behavior and I've experienced myself when even after I left the church I was turned in by members who didn't yet know that I had left...so I know its real...and I've been on both ends of this cultural undercurrent

In other words, you have no idea why those women decided to lose their multiple earrings.  

[bluebell]

32 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Wha????awesome?  Ok time to start a new thread on this.  Maybe tomorrow

Yes, awesome!  

[SteveO]

I think it's important to note that there's nothing wrong with trying to look nice.  I love when my wife dresses up and we go out.  We both hit the gym and watch what we eat.  She's a "thriver", as is my sister, both are fanatics about it, and it's eye rollingly stupid and obnoxious sometimes--but I've never really given it a second thought as to doing anything wrong.  

I guess you'd have to identify where it becomes an issue.  and that's pretty subjective.  How is getting a tummy tuck any worse than eating nothing but boiled chicken and doing 1000 ab crunches a day?  Is it the method or more the obsession with having a flat stomach?  

How is a boob job any dumber than guys driving around the valley in their ridiculously expensive and obnoxious trucks?  

You'd have to identify the "baseline" for what an LDS woman is supposed to be, and I don't think anyone knows what that is.   

[BlueDreams]

8 hours ago, bluebell said:

But what do you think?  Is satan using distraction on the saints in Utah more than the saints in other places?  Or is part of the problem just a consequence of having so many people with so much disposable wealth in one area making these kinds of body modifications/schedules seem normal so that everyone starts to feel like they have to keep up to stay relevant?

On the phone front, that's a solid no. Everywhere there's smartphones there's an excess of distractions. That's phones for you.

On looks....well that's another thing. UT definitely has a thing. I remember when I had a companion from UT in PA. It was the end of my mission, wore very little make up and she noticed that most the women in this area wore little as well. I pointed out part of it was the hassle of putting it on only to have it melt half way through the day. She stated that she'd learned that she wasn't really presentable for outdoor space without her make up. I was mortified. But at the same time, UT can be lax about other forms of appearance. For example, in the east if you were going to a classical music recital, orchestra, major fancy concert, etc....ya dressed up. At least in formal wear if not to the hilt. I did the same to attend a college senior solo performance and dressed up in a good dress as I would out east...only to find out at least half the audience was in jeans. To say that UT is especially body image oriented or image oriented period is probably not true. Many areas, ethnic groups, etc are. But I do think all the things she mentioned are easily distracting the saints from more important things. 

Along with perfectionism I think there's inner narratives that drive extreme body modifications and this seeking of something physically different. In a mormon context, I think it's the confusion of modesty with chronically downgrading oneself and vanity with loving and appreciating your body. For example, I like to play an evil game with my female clients. It's fairly simple. They are to tell me what they think about their bodies, starting with their toes. But for every negative thing they say about this or that part of their body they have to say something negative about mine. For every positive thing they say about theirs they can then say something positive about mine. I assure them that I love myself and will not be effected by what they say. Still, I've had more than one break down into nervous tears as I have them break two social taboos: speaking negatively about another person's body to their face and speaking highly of themselves. They're often terrible at first at saying something genuinely nice about their body and squirm and insist there's nothing wrong with mine. By the end they're getting better and are beginning to see the point in talking about your body as you would another's. And that's the crux of the problem: we've made it socially expected to compare our worst traits to other people's best and to poo-poo away compliments about our bodies from others. We can't embrace our own beauty.

Ironically it is a lack of body cherishing that fuels this need for the "perfect" body, IMO. You can't love and preserve something that never feels right to you.

 

With luv,

BD

    

Edited September 12, 2017 by BlueDreams

[BlueDreams]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

So leaving out the question of whether or not satan has anything to do with it, do silly distractions like looks, hobbies, and our phones distance us from God in detrimental ways?

Depends. Several hobbies make me feel as though I'm communing with God (art, gardening, nature documentaries, hiking, etc). Even my looks can have a spiritual aspect as I like to care for my body and the gift God gave to me. But some are distracting and probably need balance. Even these positive hobbies out of balance with the rest of my life could end up being a major problem. 

 

With luv,

BD