Mormons being distracted by body/perfectionism issues?

[Johnnie Cake]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

In other words, you have no idea why those women decided to lose their multiple earrings.  

Oh brother you are impossible...conclude whatever supports your perspective.  If you need/want to believe that Mormon culture had no influence on why Mormon women do not wear multiple earrings be my guest. 

[Jeanne]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

I have homemade maple bacon ice cream in my fridge.  Feel free to come visit.

Homemade???  Can I come???

[BlueDreams]

4 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Within Mormonism culture there is an undercurrent that is always present...eyes always watching what each other is doing...always on watch for some misstep by a member of the ward or church.  Its subtle, its often unsaid, but its there...always lurking and watching what other Mormon's are doing....the quiet silent judgement of fellow Mormons watching each other to make sure no one steps out of line or does something that the church might disapprove of. It's particularly present when a Mormon you might know missteps...usually then its seen as an anonymous tip to the relief society president or the bishop or elders quorum president so that the "sin" might be corrected.  I've personally seen it felt it in Starbucks...when I've seen members of the church seeking their morning coffee...looking over their shoulders...always aware of the fact that they are being watched, might get caught.  I experienced it when I was in the bishopric, when members reported other members behavior to me.  I experienced it in the High council when members turned in other members for their behavior and I've experienced myself when even after I left the church I was turned in by members who didn't yet know that I had left...so I know its real...and I've been on both ends of this cultural undercurrent

Does this come with spooky music, a flashlight in front of ones face, and a dark conspiratorial voice? Seriously, this reads over the top. I don't get the sense that BB is saying culture can NEVER play an effect, but that you're basically mind reading and oversimplifying what ALL the lds women with a tattoo or piercings are thinking. I would probably feel shifty about getting a coffee, but it's because I covenanted not to. Not because the neighbor saw. I've also contemplated getting a second piercing in the spot that's supposed to help migraines. If I took it out, it wouldn't be about culture...it would be because it didn't work. 

And anectdotal evidence isn't enough, I have several anecdotal evidence - some including the temple with overt instructions NOT to judge on appearance - to point in the contrary of some of the extreme conclusions you're describing. 

 

With luv, 

BD

 

 

[Darren10]

12 hours ago, bluebell said:

I read this blog last week when it was shared on Facebook and I thought it was pretty interesting.  The blog begins with the author's experience visiting friends in Canada, who had some experience with Utah and didn't understand the culture and focus on appearance.

A couple weeks ago, my little family took a trip to Canada to visit my old bestie from college. It was amazing.  Loved every minute of it.  One evening we sat around a table in their amazing backyard sun room and had a conversation with her parents that changed my life.  

That conversation mentioned earlier with my friend’s dad?  He said, “I’ve always been amazed at the ads on billboards when driving down I-15 in Utah. It makes you wonder, do the saints have a body confidence issue?” Being from Utah, I noticed all the ads, but I thought it was normal everywhere.

The author then says that she realized how much time and energy Utah saints (especially women) spend on achieving the perfect image and she thinks that satan is behind it.

As Latter Day Saints, in general we are all striving to be good people, right?  We aren’t going to go out and murder someone, or get wrapped up in substance abuse. We, as truthful, intentional members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, are trying desperately hard to be upstanding citizens in our communities. For Satan to try and convince us to behave in ways completely polar to our beliefs and morals would be futile… however, he can easily use distraction and it can achieve the same result.  And he is, and it’s working.

Satan doesn’t have a body, and he is desperately jealous of all of us with one.  So, what does he do?  He makes us feel like if ours is not “perfect” (no one’s is) it needs to be fixed or it’s not worth having. Cellulite? Gross.  No makeup? Ugly!  Hairy chest? Ew.  Short eyelashes? Shame.  Hip dips? Gasp. Overweight?  Ridiculous.  Too skinny? Sick.  Sparse, blotchy eyebrows? SMH.  No lipsense on?? SMHA! Stretch marks?  What, you trying to be elasta-woman?  Wrinkles? You’re over 25 and don’t look fresh out of the womb? Insult to Society.  Baby weight?  Are you serious?  Crooked teeth? Hillbilly.  No contouring today? Your nose is massive. (My Canadian friends didn’t even know what contouring was! Praise the heavens!)  Hairy legs? Disgusting.  You don’t do crossfit?  Uh… do you even lift weights?   Grey hairs? Shame shame shhhhhame.

See what I mean?  All of these body shaming thoughts are swirling around all the time and are definitely distracting us.  They keep us from interacting with other people.  They keep us from having fun with our families.  They keep us on the sides of the pool instead of in the water.  And if they don’t keep us from doing those things, then they totally occupy our minds, squeezing out the spirit because now we are battling self confidence issues and the pressure to get micro-bladed brows, laser hair removal (one word: Ow.), eyelash extensions or spray tans as if that’s what a normal body looks like.  He’s keeping us focused on the “fake” negatives our bodies have. Has any real person ever dissed on us like that?  I sure hope not. Has Satan?  Every minute. Every day. He’s keeping us focused on our bodily “flaws” so we stay distracted from the important. How can anyone really spend time studying the scriptures, praying, and going to church when these other things completely consume and distract us? It all makes sense now.

Her comment on contouring made me laugh a little bit.  I have a calling in the YWs and i've heard 15 year old girls lamenting that early morning seminary was making it so they didn't have time to properly contour their faces before school. 

She then goes on to say how satan also distracts us with trying to be perfect parents by focusing on mostly unimportant things-

The family has been under attack since the beginning of time. Satan hasn’t changed, but he’s changed his game. Nowadays, we go about wearing our Busy Badge of Honor. We sign our kids up for 1,000 different activities, but give FHE the boot all too often.  We are distracted with needing to be right and not focusing on loving and improving communication with our spouse.  We are distracted with forcing our MLM, startup or blog into success that we too often let the most important people in our lives grow mold.  We are distracted with house work, with swim lessons, with piano lessons, workout groups and play dates all due to a real and tangible pressure to be perfect, authored by the devil himself. We binge watch series on Netflix or Amazon Prime (Grimm, quickly followed by Poldark were my latest), but don’t have time to sit down and give ten minutes of quality time to a needy toddler.  We put hours and hours into our jobs, careers and education that we put off starting and building families. We are completely consumed with political issues (that are coming at us faster than flapjacks) but ignore issues within our families.  On purpose?  No, just distracted… with one seemingly important, worth while thing after the next.

I don't think she's saying that those things are bad in and of themselves.  Only that they are bad to the degree that they make us crazy because we are so busy and cause us to neglect other more important things.

Lastly she mentioned the distractions of the mind, mostly through our constant connection to our phones/internet/contention-

The incredible thing about our minds is that it’s a hotspot for revelation.  When we have questions in our lives, we pray about it then are supposed to ponder and study it out in our minds.  How on earth is it even possible to study something out in our minds these days? We are connected to our phones all. the. time. The moment I open my phone I don’t even remember what I got on there for, but I wasted 15 minutes.  Satan keeps political issues swirling everywhere, amplified by the media and shoved down our throats.  We consume consume consume without taking time to swallow before shoving in the next article, snap, instagram, status update, youtube video, or meme collect $200 when you pass go.  We are completely drowning in everyone else’s opinions and beliefs, that we can’t even break the surface to form our own opinions, let alone allow the spirit to speak to us.  And we are mad at God about it. #weareinsane.

That last line also caught my attention because I can see how it's so true, even in my own life and the lives of people i'm close to.  We make it almost impossible to receive personal revelation but we blame everyone (including God) but ourselves for the lack of spiritual answers.

So, my question is, is she on to something?  

I have loved living in Utah.  We've been here for almost 4 years and I have made so many wonderful friends.  But, man, Utah has been a whole horse of a different color when it comes to time, money, and angst spent on looking perfect and having the perfect lifestyle.  I've lived in five different states as an adult and i've never lived somewhere where members (mostly women) were so focused on looking a specific way.  False eyelashes, threaded eyebrows, boob jobs (for cosmetic reasons), tummy tucks to erase all evidence of having given birth, cool sculpting, botox, laser hair removal....there are women in their late 60s in my ward with lash extensions and more facial tattoos than a biker gang.   

I've never lived in an area that had a bigger population than the SLC area, so maybe that has something to do with it (those of you who live in metropolitan areas in other places can chime in on the number of body modifying billboard their freeways are inundated with).

But what do you think?  Is satan using distraction on the saints in Utah more than the saints in other places?  Or is part of the problem just a consequence of having so many people with so much disposable wealth in one area making these kinds of body modifications/schedules seem normal so that everyone starts to feel like they have to keep up to stay relevant?

Does Utah have issues? Yes. Do Utah Mormons have issues? 

[Darren10]

"boob jobs (for cosmetic reasons)"

I have very flat boobs. Where can I get them worked on? 

[Darren10]

My wife and I drove through Utah many years ago and we saw a billboard which said, "if you just said, 'oh my heck', this product is probably not for you". The billboard was a beer advertisement and showed a busty German girl holding a couple of pitchers of beer. My wife and I cracked up seeing that and we still joke about that today. 

I remember Nu Skin being a big thing in Provo while I attended the Lord's University there. I was surprised when I wwax told that irt was a was a Utahn-based idea. Before Utah, I never before thought of Mormons caught up in the immediate fads bit they are. I did not even see so much emphasis on "looking perfect" when I was at Rick's College (now BYU Idaho); at least not any more than the norm. But I agree that the billboards in Utah disturbed me a bit. There was a lot regarding good looks, fresh breathe, hair free bodies. These were heavily targeting women and often exclusively towards women. But what stuck in my mind the most was the advertisement of businesses run by "former bishops". In mean, really? How priestcraftily corrupt can you get? 

Edited September 13, 2017 by Darren10

[Darren10]

8 hours ago, bluebell said:

I agree, but that's so straightforward and obvious that few of us would purposefully put anything above God, right? 

I'm wondering if they troubling part of these issues is that they distract us from realizing anything is wrong.  Is spending a thousand dollars a year on hair/make-up/eyelash extensions when you only give 1/2 that much  to fast offering justifiable?  Probably not.  How many of us do that anyway (with whatever our pet hobbies/likes are).   Probably a lot of us.  Why are do we keep doing it?  Maybe because we're so distracted that we don't even realize we are.

I don't know.  Definitely something to think about...

I agree. That money could be much better spent of audio and video equipment.

[Darren10]

14 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Any husband who puts that kind of pressure on their wife to alter their bodies is an idiot and an (insert word I can't use on this board)

I believe the word you're looking for is "poopyhead".

You're welcome.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Darren10

[Darren10]

11 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

This shaming can be traced back to a conference address by Gordon Hinckley who specifically publically shamed Mormon women who choose to wear more than one earring.  By making this a thing, President Hinckley perhaps purposely or unweldingly set into motion a new standard of body shaming specifically targeting women.  Wearing more than one set of earing is now equivalent to carrying a Starbucks coffee cup into church, no one will say anything but they are all making a silent judgement of your lack of following the prophet. 

Also I we should mention the shaming by Elder Ballard when he told women to wear lip stick...so much of this body shaming comes from the top leaders of the church... add to this the constant strain of perfection and you get a mentality standard where women always feeling less than perfect which leads to all of the mental problem and drug use along the Wasatch front with woman. 

You and I go to very different wards. 

[Darren10]

11 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Utah?

Try LA.  It has nothing to do with the church. SLC is just the biggest metro area most here know well. 

Ever drive thru Vegas?

Clearly a first world problem and a hive mentality facilitated by the internet

No one thinks for themselves any more. Our intelligence is becoming artificial like everything else.

I must say that that makes a LOT of sense. Perhaps it was only a Salt Lake City / Prove thing I experienced. Those two areas are rhe vasy majority of my Utah experience. 

Saint George, here I come!

[Darren10]

10 hours ago, MorningStar said:

I don't understand the trend.  It's vain and then there's the costly apparel thing.  And I swear, if one more of my Facebook friends tries to sell me Shakeology/Beach Body because they're a "health coach", I'm going to throw a doughnut at them.  I just want to say, "Do you really think no one else has approached me about it?  I see your 80 million posts about Shakeology.  I see your daily selfie with your shake.  If I were interested, I would approach you!!!"  

 

 

 

Dang. Don't waste a good donut! 

[Darren10]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

And you know this because you are omniscient or because they told you in some fashion?

I prefer to let women and men to speak for themselves.

I think Satan told him. 

[Darren10]

6 hours ago, bluebell said:

If you want to assume that they took out extra earrings because of what Hinckley said then I'm fine with that, but how can you say that they did so because of silent shaming when they didn't tell you that's why they did it??  

Because, it was "silent". Duh!!! 

[Darren10]

5 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Within Mormonism culture there is an undercurrent that is always present...eyes always watching what each other is doing...always on watch for some misstep by a member of the ward or church.  Its subtle, its often unsaid, but its there...always lurking and watching what other Mormon's are doing....the quiet silent judgement of fellow Mormons watching each other to make sure no one steps out of line or does something that the church might disapprove of. It's particularly present when a Mormon you might know missteps...usually then its seen as an anonymous tip to the relief society president or the bishop or elders quorum president so that the "sin" might be corrected.  I've personally seen it felt it in Starbucks...when I've seen members of the church seeking their morning coffee...looking over their shoulders...always aware of the fact that they are being watched, might get caught.  I experienced it when I was in the bishopric, when members reported other members behavior to me.  I experienced it in the High council when members turned in other members for their behavior and I've experienced myself when even after I left the church I was turned in by members who didn't yet know that I had left...so I know its real...and I've been on both ends of this cultural undercurrent

I think you need to call the The Police.

 

[Calm]

33 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

I think Satan told him. 

They were wearing scarlet "E's" for "earrings" on their chests.

[Rain]

17 hours ago, bluebell said:

So leaving out the question of whether or not satan has anything to do with it, do silly distractions like looks, hobbies, and our phones distance us from God in detrimental ways?   

I think a lot of what you see in a ward depends a lot on where it is. The things you mentioned were just not big things at all in my last 2 Utah wards.  There were several women very into fitness in my last ward, but only one woman who did the false eyelashes etc. That ward was also middle class. 

I have run into enough women at stores etc that fit the description you talk of to know it exists. I just can't think of it as a Mormon thing specifically when my experience runs so differently. I do think there must be an environmental component to it though - the more women doing it the more the women around will change as well. You get pockets of these women around the valleys. 

So onto distractions. Just read this:

"The expulsion of the modern Saints from Jackson County differed from the flight of Moses and Israel, but the Saints received a similar charge. The Lord said, "Be still and know that I am God" (D&C 101:16; see also Psalm 46:10). 

"This commandment has great importance for our study, for what we are trying to do is learn how to listen to and recognize the still, small voice when it comes to us. Our crises are rarely as desperate or dangerous as those of ancient Israel or the modern Saints in Missouri, but our challenge is essentially the same. How do we become still so we can better hear the still, small voice? 

"This is a challenge because in the first part of the twenty-first century our lives are filled with noise—physical noise, spiritual noise, and emotional noise. Our lives are filled with all kinds of things that create a state of inner noise within us. And we mean more than just sin and transgression. 

 "Some sources of spiritual noise, or spiritual static, are pretty obvious. Some are subtler and harder to recognize. Here is a list of some of the things that seriously affect the ability of our spiritual senses to pick up thoughts and feelings that come from the Lord."

This is from Hearing the Voice of the Lord by Gerald Lund. He goes on to say that pride, busyness, irreverence etc can be those noises. I would say that often those things you, BB, describe would also be part of that noise.  

 

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by Rain

[thatjimguy]

2 hours ago, Darren10 said:

My wife and I drove through Utah many years ago and we saw a billboard which said, "if you just said, 'oh my heck', this product is probably not for you". The billboard was a beer advertisement and showed a busty German girls holding a couple of pitchers of beer. My wife and I cracked up seeing that and we still joke about that today. 

I remember Nu Skin being a big thing in Provo while I attended the Lord's University there. I was surprised when I wwax told that irt was a was a Utahn-based idea. Before Utah, I never before thought of Mormons caught up in the immediate fads bit they are. I did not even see so much emphasis on "looking perfect" when I was at Rick's College (now BYU Idaho); at least not any more than the norm. But I agree that the billboards in Utah disturbed me a bit. There was a lot regarding good looks, fresh breathe, hair free bodies. These were heavily targeting women and often exclusively towards women. But what stuck in my mind the most was the advertisement of businesses run by "former bishops". In mean, really? How priestcraftily corrupt can you get? 

I remember seeing a good number of billboards about cosmetic surgery when I first entered Utah. 

I hadn't seen much perfection problems at BYU-I. Just the standard over zealous types maybe, but not perfectionism. 

[Darren10]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

They were wearing scarlet "E's" for "earrings" on their chests.

That sounds funny but I don't get it.

[Darren10]

7 minutes ago, thatjimguy said:

I remember seeing a good number of billboards about cosmetic surgery when I first entered Utah. 

I hadn't seen much perfection problems at BYU-I. Just the standard over zealous types maybe, but not perfectionism. 

He understands meeeeeee!!!!!

Thanks.

[Calm]

37 minutes ago, Darren10 said:

That sounds funny but I don't get it.

That makes me sad.  You had a lousy high school .English experience.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scarlet_Letter

 

[Darren10]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

That makes me sad.  You had a lousy high school .English experience.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scarlet_Letter

 

LoL. My high school wasn't any more lousy tjan any other high school. The problem was me. I was so bad in English that I was placed into an ESL class my junior year just to catch up on my basics. It worked great but even today I'm terrible at English grammar and it takes me years to read a book. The Scarlet Letter never did interest me though you did peak my interest in it now with your posts.

Edited September 13, 2017 by Darren10

[stemelbow]

14 hours ago, bluebell said:

In other words, you have no idea why those women decided to lose their multiple earrings.  

He just said he has some idea, how do you rephrase that as he has no idea? 

Edited September 13, 2017 by stemelbow

[Amulek]

21 hours ago, bluebell said:

That conversation mentioned earlier with my friend’s dad?  He said, “I’ve always been amazed at the ads on billboards when driving down I-15 in Utah. It makes you wonder, do the saints have a body confidence issue?” Being from Utah, I noticed all the ads, but I thought it was normal everywhere.

Funny. This makes me wonder whether they bothered to notice what sort of ads they weren't seeing. I live in the DFW area where billboards for strip clubs, alcohol, and gambling are all pretty common fare. Given the choice, I would happily swap the billboard advertising we get down here with what I remember seeing along the freeway when I lived in Utah. Or, better still, we could make like Washington (state) and have our scenic highways be billboard free. 

[bluebell]

38 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

He just said he has some idea, how do you rephrase that as he has no idea? 

When I said 'you have no idea' i was using it in the 'you don't actually know what you are talking about' way.  And he confirmed that he doesn't actually know that the women stopped wearing earrings out of shame.  He's projecting feelings and emotions onto those women that they never confirmed, and then pretending like it's fact, when it's just his opinions and assumptions.  

[bluebell]

43 minutes ago, Amulek said:

Funny. This makes me wonder whether they bothered to notice what sort of ads they weren't seeing. I live in the DFW area where billboards for strip clubs, alcohol, and gambling are all pretty common fare. Given the choice, I would happily swap the billboard advertising we get down here with what I remember seeing along the freeway when I lived in Utah. Or, better still, we could make like Washington (state) and have our scenic highways be billboard free. 

There are a few strip club billboards along I-15 and I-80, and on state street (Southern Exposure, anyone??  )  And plenty for alcohol.  And there are gambling billboards advertising for casinos in Wendover.  Maybe it's been a while since you've been through here.