Telestial kingdom

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, phaedrus ut said:

I was a grown adult before I knew that the word Telestial didn't exist until D&C 76.  It looks Greek/Latinish like Celestial and Terrestrial so I always assumed it was a real word.  It wasn't until I had a student ask why Celestial is the sun when it means the stars and Terrestrial is the stars when it means the earth and why Telestial was made up.  Needless to say i was a bit embarrassed of my naiveté.

Phaedrus 

 

What, isn't God allowed to coin new words?

[Maidservant]

Our destiny is not where we are going, but who we become.  YOU will be your own reward. YOU will be your own heaven or your own hell. YOU will be telestial, terrestrial, celestial (as someone said, it's just a way to describe).

The temple teaches us more about our destiny of who and what we can become and is very plain about the telestial world.  I invite you to prepare to enter the temple so that you can have this knowledge.

Everyone on earth has their own hell.  We fashion our heaven (whether telestial, terrestrial, or celestial) out of the material of our hell.  (As Jesus did--cross, tomb, then the rising.) (The wilderness before the promised land--the story in the Old Testament of the children of Israel.)  Right after you die, you will not 'go to a kingdom'.  You will be in the spirit world and you will still have the work of your self to do.  You may very well be struck with the gravity of your choice.

THIS IS A WORLD OF GLORY.  (I wish Mormons understood this! lol.)  This world is GLORIOUS.  We yearned to come here.  The taste of apples.  The song of birds.  Newborn babies.  Swimming in the pool.  Even the pain--we wanted to know GOD--and God is more in pain and struggle and loss than he is in triumph.

**big hugs**  You have a massive struggle right now.  You are very brave.  My father took his own life.  I myself struggled with deep mental health challenges for decades, which I affectionately call The Abyss.  As Winston Churchill, I think, said: "If you are in hell right now, KEEP GOING."

Joseph Smith once said, that if the Mormons go to hell, we will turn the devils out of it, and make a heaven of it.  That's just a little thing he said, but it does show that it isn't WHERE you are, it is WHO you are.

You. are. precious.  I know you are in so much pain right now, endless, that how can you possibly manage.  ANYTHING would be better than it, it seems.  **big hugs**  I invited you to stay in life, and search deeply for the answer to YOUR unique suffering, your unique story.  God knows you and will uphold you.  That doesn't mean he will remove everything from you, because again, you will come to know him in your tomb.  But, you will, rise.  You are very brave!

[poptart]

47 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

NO.

It is not the same as this life.  Even the Telestial is a kingdom of glory, which this life most assuredly is not.

There's a lot more to be said about this, but it isn't like here.  Not at all.

I'm listening 

[sunstoned]

5 hours ago, JAHS said:

And being interrupted by every commercial ever made. 

That would be hell.

[JAHS]

47 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

5 hours ago, JAHS said:

And being interrupted by every commercial ever made. 

That would be hell.

"These are they who are thrust down to hell." (D&C 76: 84)  

[Darren10]

6 hours ago, Gray said:

In the Telestial Kingdom Netflix includes every TV show and movie ever made. 

No VidAngels there.

[Gray]

17 hours ago, JAHS said:

And being interrupted by every commercial ever made. 

That's why you aim for Terrestrial. No commercials!

[poptart]

So, I don't really watch tv except for cartoons, do mostly woodland stuff, and really prefer to be left alone so Netflix is no biggie.  Just give me a cabin in the woods and I'm happy, I hate people in general.

Edited May 23, 2017 by poptart

[Jean-Luc Picard]

It will be what people make it to be, it will all depend on who is there. According to Joseph, not nice people. 

When I watch the Good Place TV show it makes me think of the telestial 

[poptart]

12 hours ago, Jean-Luc Picard said:

It will be what people make it to be, it will all depend on who is there. According to Joseph, not nice people. 

When I watch the Good Place TV show it makes me think of the telestial 

Not nice people?

[Jean-Luc Picard]

3 hours ago, poptart said:

Not nice people?

Thrust down to Hell, so, probably not the nicest people?

I don't think I am a good reference for this, I think Joseph misinterpreted scripture.

[poptart]

10 minutes ago, Jean-Luc Picard said:

Thrust down to Hell, so, probably not the nicest people?

I don't think I am a good reference for this, I think Joseph misinterpreted scripture.

Oh I thought you ment the Telestial kingdom,  my bad.

[Tacenda]

deleted

Edited May 27, 2017 by Tacenda

[theplains]

On 2017-5-22 at 5:59 PM, The Nehor said:

No, they will not be able to do what they do here. The Telestial is the fate of the wicked after enduring hell's purification. They come out better on the other end.

The "liars, sorcerers, adulterers, and whoremongers" have nothing to fear then when they are guaranteed a life
better than what they have now (if you believe the D&C)..

Jim

[Pete Ahlstrom]

It's a made up place that came from the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg. So, as long as we are making things up, it might as well be a place where you can do what you want 24/7.

Edited May 30, 2017 by Pete Ahlstrom

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, theplains said:

The "liars, sorcerers, adulterers, and whoremongers" have nothing to fear then when they are guaranteed a life
better than what they have now (if you believe the D&C)..

Jim

If you consider the purifying flames of hell "nothing to fear" then you are braver then I.

[Alan]

Unlike this life, there wil be no devil in the Telestial kingdom.

So that's an improvement straightaway.

[poptart]

Im going to play devils advocate here for a sec, people like to blame demons and things outside themselves and never take a good look in the mirror and accept responsibility for their own problems.  I'm no different, but I'm not going to blame lucifer for my own shortcomings, in the end I made my choices in life, no one else did.  Also, have to admire the devil in a way, if and when you're tempted, want to sell your soul, etc. he's right there, I mean there on the spot.  Now thats a good businessman/hustler.  Have to admire him for the effort.

[probablyHagoth7]

On 5/22/2017 at 6:35 PM, Stargazer said:

What, isn't God allowed to coin new words?

In English, the word "telestial" dates back before Joseph Smith to at least the time of the American Revolution, apparently to Swedenborg.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=telestial&year_start=1700&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctelestial%3B%2Cc0

Edited May 30, 2017 by probablyHagoth7

[probablyHagoth7]

15 hours ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

It's a made up place that came from the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg....

Oops. Now reading the rest of the thread...

[RevTestament]

On 5/22/2017 at 7:21 PM, poptart said:

I'm listening 

Even people who have committed bad sins, if they are repentant and change in Christ can be saved in the telestial kingdom, but as Revelation says they will be coming from hell to be resurrected and judged. This means they will suffer "eternal torment" (in scope) in hell, but because they are repentant in the end, they can be saved. If they are repentant in this life, they may make it to the terrestrial kingdom.

On 5/23/2017 at 3:36 PM, poptart said:

So, I don't really watch tv except for cartoons, do mostly woodland stuff, and really prefer to be left alone so Netflix is no biggie.  Just give me a cabin in the woods and I'm happy, I hate people in general.

There was a time when I thought I did not like people. What I did not like is the rat-race. The constant competition to get ahead. The games people play. I actually liked my family. When they talked I knew they were telling me the truth. In college I found people to like as well. I think for the most part my friends were/are people who are just themselves. These people I enjoy being around, and am comfortable with. What's there not to like? I also found the Church had a lot of people like this - people for whom friendship was not a popularity contest.  Let's face it - in most places LDS are not the popularity contest winners. In order to follow Christ they often have to turn down popularity. So if those are the things about people you don't like, give your ward members a try...

[RevTestament]

18 hours ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

It's a made up place that came from the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg. So, as long as we are making things up, it might as well be a place where you can do what you want 24/7.

 

3 hours ago, probablyHagoth7 said:

In English, the word "telestial" dates back before Joseph Smith to at least the time of the American Revolution, apparently to Swedenborg.

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=telestial&year_start=1700&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Ctelestial%3B%2Cc0

I could not confirm this is the case. The earlier versions google came up with I believe are actually computer reading errors of "celestial." Swedenborg did talk of 3 levels of heaven or three heavens, and he called the highest the celestial, but I could not verify he wrote of a telestial kingdom.

I believe these three kingdoms are not only alluded to by Paul, but by Jesus Himself in the parable of the sower of seed. You will note that the D&C description of these three levels seems to correspond to the first three areas the seed lands on in the parable. Then I believe there are three degrees of glory as the parable alludes to as well. 

Swedenborg also posited 3 states of being while awaiting resurrection, which I don't believe is in LDS doctrine. As far as I'm aware, LDS doctrine teaches of spirit prison or hell, and paradise. Those righteous spirits who die in Christ go to paradise to await their resurrection. Everyone else gets some spirit prison or hell from which they may have to wait till the last judgment/resurrection to be judged and probably saved.

Edited May 30, 2017 by RevTestament

[Pete Ahlstrom]

29 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

 

I could not confirm this is the case. The earlier versions google came up with I believe are actually computer reading errors of "celestial." Swedenborg did talk of 3 levels of heaven or three heavens, and he called the highest the celestial, but I could not verify he wrote of a telestial kingdom.

I believe these three kingdoms are not only alluded to by Paul, but by Jesus Himself in the parable of the sower of seed. You will note that the D&C description of these three levels seems to correspond to the first three areas the seed lands on in the parable. Then I believe there are three degrees of glory as the parable alludes to as well. 

Swedenborg also posited 3 states of being while awaiting resurrection, which I don't believe is in LDS doctrine. As far as I'm aware, LDS doctrine teaches of spirit prison or hell, and paradise. Those righteous spirits who die in Christ go to paradise to await their resurrection. Everyone else gets some spirit prison or hell from which they may have to wait till the last judgment/resurrection to be judged and probably saved.

It might have been that JS added telestial to what swedenborg did. One doesn't want to copy things word for word.

[juliann]

On 5/22/2017 at 6:08 PM, Maidservant said:

Our destiny is not where we are going, but who we become.  YOU will be your own reward. YOU will be your own heaven or your own hell. YOU will be telestial, terrestrial, celestial (as someone said, it's just a way to describe).

 

High on my top ten conference talks  https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2000/10/the-challenge-to-become?lang=eng

Quote

 We do not obtain our heavenly reward by punching a time clock. What is essential is that our labors in the workplace of the Lord have caused us to become something. For some of us, this requires a longer time than for others. What is important in the end is what we have become by our labors. Many who come in the eleventh hour have been refined and prepared by the Lord in ways other than formal employment in the vineyard. These workers are like the prepared dry mix to which it is only necessary to “add water”—the perfecting ordinance of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. With that addition—even in the eleventh hour—these workers are in the same state of development and qualified to receive the same reward as those who have labored long in the vineyard.

I really dislike lessons on the D&C descriptions of Celestial, etc. (I have never been able to keep telestial and terrestial straight anyway.) I think the idea that people are given 10 minutes to "accept" the gospel or else is absurd. All those designations mean is that not everyone has been given the same circumstances and opportunities, it comes down to a godly gotcha game the way I often hear it discussed. I think our modern teachings do a much better job of it. 

[juliann]

19 hours ago, Pete Ahlstrom said:

It's a made up place that came from the writings of Emanuel Swedenborg. So, as long as we are making things up, it might as well be a place where you can do what you want 24/7.

Actually, the degrees of heaven stuff is ancient.