conference

[Rain]

12 minutes ago, omni said:

I think this raises an interesting question, why do you believe God inspired Church leaders to change the proselytizing focus from door-to-door tracking to social media if it's less effective?

If you don't believe Church leaders were inspired to make the change (which was undoubtedly done so after much fasting and prayer), why hasn't God inspired them to make the change back to door-to-door tracking?

 

I was on my mission 25+ years ago.  Even then they were telling us how much more effective other methods were than tracting. It was hard to believe though when we really tried working with members and 75% of our baptisms came from tracting. Funny thing was the member baptisms came from members who had never worked with us. Now I could understand if I were immature and didn't have actions becoming a missionary, but that is not the impression of how the members felt about us. 

Personally, I think they should have more of a social meeting focus..in some areas and at some times. And tracting in some area and times etc.  I think things should be flexible in how missionaries work it in the area.  "Here are some missionary finding tools. Talk with the Lord about them. Then go DO them."

 

[Gray]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I don't mind at all. And if they ask, I always invite them in.

Except for the one day when I was streaking to the laundry just as the JWs knocked on the door...

I think you're the bright and shining exception, Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

52 minutes ago, Gray said:

I think you're the bright and shining exception, Hamba Tuhan

So what exactly is everyone else apparently so afraid of???

[The Nehor]

26 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

So what exactly is everyone else apparently so afraid of???

Having to pause Netflix?

[mfbukowski]

14 hours ago, rongo said:

I keep hearing this. I see no evidence that this is so. It has been "less culturally acceptable" all over the world for over a hundred years --- meaning that many people don't like it. There aren't any legal barriers to it in most places, nor is there momentum building for this, as far as I can tell. In my experience, what people mean when they say "tracting is becoming less culturally-acceptable" is "missionaries don't like doing it, and people can be annoyed at them."

 

 

Here's the thing. *When* the missionaries don't have a better option, why not do it then? As I, gopher, and others testify to, many people are found that way who wouldn't have been found any other way. If they don't have appointments, why not do it? It is not less-effective than "planning" all week at the church. And that's where a lot of their mission stories are actually going to come from. The resistance to it when there is nothing else to do boggles my mind. Those who beat the "it's not effective" drum don't even want them to do it when they have even less effective options.

 

 

I think this is a self-fulfilling prophecy. If missionaries and members think morale is going to be bad with it, then they're right. I know from experience that it can be a lot of fun, even if you're not teaching lessons all the time, get yelled at, etc. 

 

 

Missionaries don't have any more "indifference" from people now than in the past. Even the distant past. That has always been the default setting of people to our message, with some notable exceptions (United Brethren, Campbellites, etc.). 

 

 

I do think the 1830s missions to Europe were a special time, where the vanguard of the gathering of Ephraim took place --- and subsequent attempts are considerable less "efficient" and effective. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to find the people who can still be found just because it's hard.

The hand-wringing over the falling converts to missionaries ratio, falling convert baptisms, etc. boggles my mind. We have missionaries trying to find people to teach less and less. Why are we surprised when they find and baptize less and less?

 

 

I'm basing this on counsel from the Brethren in my area (don't have them find, shield them from all negative experiences, have them at the church "planning" if they don't have anything to do, etc.)

 

 

how do we know it's less and less effective if we don't try it any more? It's easy to say it's less and less effective if you no longer do it --- that becomes circular (we do it because it's less effective, we know it's less effective because we don't do it any more). 

 

 

Using terms like "ageist prejudice" hurts your anti-coddling case.  

 

 

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with this, but I know in big cities those who open their doors to strangers can be robbed- in Los Angeles, there are news stories about this happening nearly every day.   I know that with a metropolitan population of 14 million or so, even one such event on the news every day still makes it an extremely small probability that it will happen to any given individual, still the news itself can make one think twice before even answering the door much less seeing who it is before opening or not.

Also in our area, there is no such thing as "street preaching" since the area is so spread out- no one walks anywhere and even users of public transportation are rare.  

And there is no question that interest in religion in general is at an all-time low.

I think there is a lot of truth to the idea that times have changed for tracting and street contacting.  It depends on the area I think though.  What might not work in one locale might work fine elsewhere.

[why me]

On 2.4.2017 at 11:24 PM, Calm said:

I wonder if it is less coddling and more possible community blowback against door to door solicitations.  I have heard of a few communities attempting to make it illegal.  Perhaps SLC is more aware of such issues and potential problems than locals.

Leadership has been dealing with young men and women for decades.  They are probably aware that one of the worst things to put a young adult who is trying to keep on the path of righteousness through is boredom.  I see it as unlikely they are having them sit at church waiting for people to show up also knowing the infrequency of people actually doing that just to protect them from embarrassment or discomfort of door to door encounters.

Most of the contacts are now made on the street and in mass transportation. It seems that mission life is a little tougher now. For example, missionaries can only have a 30 minute lunch now. But they can be home 30 minutes earlier in the evening. I also think that young people no longer feel obligated to serve a mission. And perhaps in many countries it is not safe to go door to door.

[why me]

I would imagine that the church will eventually show a negative growth rate. It is heading in that direction. And no surprise if it does. The internet has killed church growth. Not to mention the secularization in the USA and in Europe. Islam is on the rise throughout the world just based on migration. By 2060 many european countries may see Islam as their dominant faith or muslims in the majority. However, it will be interesting to see the reaction of exmembers when the church does show a negative growth rate::::pure jubilation for sure.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with this, but I know in big cities those who open their doors to strangers can be robbed- in Los Angeles, there are news stories about this happening nearly every day.   I know that with a metropolitan population of 14 million or so, even one such event on the news every day still makes it an extremely small probability that it will happen to any given individual, still the news itself can make one think twice before even answering the door much less seeing who it is before opening or not.

Also in our area, there is no such thing as "street preaching" since the area is so spread out- no one walks anywhere and even users of public transportation are rare.  

And there is no question that interest in religion in general is at an all-time low.

I think there is a lot of truth to the idea that times have changed for tracting and street contacting.  It depends on the area I think though.  What might not work in one locale might work fine elsewhere.

Back a few years, there were reports of two men dressing up as missionaries to gain entrance into homes to rob them.  Security cameras caught them at one place so the police were able to arrest them.  Can't remember where for sure, but for some reason thinking Texas or California.

add-on:  hereis one report of it

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/08/fake-mormon-missionaries-rob-home-at-gunpoint/

memory not that great unless there were later reports of additional tries...Las Vegas, it was the home style that made me think

For those interested in what happened afterwards:

http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=32873781

Edited April 4, 2017 by Calm

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, why me said:

I would imagine that the church will eventually show a negative growth rate. It is heading in that direction. And no surprise if it does. The internet has killed church growth. Not to mention the secularization in the USA and in Europe. Islam is on the rise throughout the world just based on migration. By 2060 many european countries may see Islam as their dominant faith or muslims in the majority. However, it will be interesting to see the reaction of exmembers when the church does show a negative growth rate::::pure jubilation for sure.

And that is the opposite of what I felt with the Catholic priest molestation charges

Your Christian Charity is underwhelming.   I was in Europe last year and mourned at the site of numerous Catholic churches closed, and no priests available.  Pure jubilation was the farthest thing from my mind.

[why me]

26 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

And that is the opposite of what I felt with the Catholic priest molestation charges

Your Christian Charity is underwhelming.   I was in Europe last year and mourned at the site of numerous Catholic churches closed, and no priests available.  Pure jubilation was the farthest thing from my mind.

I think that we know exmormons on the internet. Many would celebrate the negative growth. This was my point. They have been predicting a decline for years. And even this modest growth rate is being celebrated by the exmormon internet crowd. But I am not celebrating at all. I will not link to the sties where the celebration threads are.

Edited April 4, 2017 by why me

[Gray]

10 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

So what exactly is everyone else apparently so afraid of???

Crazy people, or people trying to sell us things. The Jehovah's Witnesses come around about once a year, we don't answer the door. 

To me it feels very rude and presumptuous to come by someone's door without an invitation. I ALMOST feel the same way about phone calls. Maybe it's because there are so many other ways to reach someone these days. 

[rongo]

10 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

So what exactly is everyone else apparently so afraid of???

I let the JWs in and always offer to talk. The problem is, in North America (at least in Utah and Arizona), they don't seem as anxious to talk as they were in Germany. It seems that the current practice is to send appointment setters on the front line to make appointments for the teachers. The people at your door only want to make appointments or give literature. They do not want to come in and talk. I have made an appointment and had the teachers come, and we had a nice talk (I got my questions answered, and cleared up some misconceptions, and they learned from me about Mormons). 

We had a JW visit in our student housing at BYU. Talk about a rough area!  

I agree with you that too many LDS give people the brush-off when they are at the door. There are polite ways to quickly tell salesmen that you are not interested, and be Christlike, but many LDS treat people at the door how they (hopefully) wouldn't want their family or missionaries treated. I feel bad for them! Same with telemarketers (although I do make it clear from the outset that I am not interested and don't do business over the phone when I didn't initiate the contact. I try to be a bright spot in their day, though). 

[rongo]

12 hours ago, omni said:

I think this raises an interesting question, why do you believe God inspired Church leaders to change the proselytizing focus from door-to-door tracking to social media if it's less effective?

If you don't believe Church leaders were inspired to make the change (which was undoubtedly done so after much fasting and prayer), why hasn't God inspired them to make the change back to door-to-door tracking?

I don't believe that every policy initiative is inspired. Just like with us, I don't believe that God micro-manages many policy changes (some, yes). 

This is particularly true when there are whiplash pendulum swings in policy and practice over 20 years, like with member and full-time missionary work. I think David Stewart made a good point in his book when, in outlining the ebb and flow of changes to the missionary program, he argued that this is a good indication that the Brethren don't know what to do with certain challenging aspects of the missionary program (and thus try different things, tinker, revisit, scrap, reinstate, etc.). 

In particular, I think that the focus on social media/iPad missionary work is a response to three things: 1) tens of thousands of missionaries who wouldn't otherwise have gone on a mission (the bar was lowered to get kids on missions and hopefully keep them active in the Church as young adults), 2) the massive electronics addiction of their generation, 3) overall lack of resiliency and ability to weather adversity. This can also be shown by, for example, our local counsel to shield missionaries from negative experiences and have them at the church nearly constantly.

The mission I live in pilots a lot of missionary programs, from which the Church learns and adjusts. I don't think that every thing the Church pilots is inspired, either. God allows people to "study it out in their minds," try out ideas, and learn from experience. 

 

[clarkgoble]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

Back a few years, there were reports of two men dressing up as missionaries to gain entrance into homes to rob them.  Security cameras caught them at one place so the police were able to arrest them.  Can't remember where for sure, but for some reason thinking Texas or California.

On my mission, admittedly now a while ago, the FBI dressed up as missionaries to make a bust. Boy the Mission President was fuming as this was in a pretty dangerous area. As I recall the Church's lawyers got involved.

[Bernard Gui]

18 hours ago, Danzo said:

I agree that tracting is limited in its effectiveness at actually finding people, However it is very effective at letting the Lord know that you want to find people. He then brings people to the missionaries.

I have found that the single most important ingredient to missionary work is desire to bring people to Christ, In my opinion its more important than obedience, or technique.  

Since I have been called as a ward missionary and ward mission leader, all of the success in finding has been coming from people the Lord brings to us.

One of my biggest challenges is the culture and bureaucracy of the church itself. Too many rules in the church and in the missions can sometimes be used as an excuse to avoid missionary work.

I get a kick out of every time a missionary says We can't do "that".  

I then tell them to ask their mission president for permission, they come back and always find out that they actually can do "that", as long as doing "That" brings people to Christ.

We tracked all the time on my mission. It was hard work but I enjoyed it. We met some who had been prepared for our arrival. For example, we knocked on a door and when the lady answered, she said "Come in. We have been waiting for you." She told us she and her husband had both had dreams that two young men carrying hand bags would come with an important message for their rather large family. We carried ali our tracts and scriptures in what we called our "pious kits," a custom made leather bags kind of like a messenger bag. On our second visit the older son had memorized all the Articles of Faith! They all were baptized. I had several similar experiences.

It's very hard for me when it comes to talking with strangers, but I have been blessed with a few successful efforts to share the gospel with strangers. They have all come after prayer that God would put some in my way who was searching for the gospel and then be attentive and willing to respond when He does.

One summer when we were at BYU, Sister Gui and I went to Yellowstone NP. Our bishop had asked members to put a Book of Mormon on our car dashboards and then wait for someone to ask about it. We did it. On our trip no one asked. On the way home we stopped for gas in Afton, WY. As we were sitting waiting for the attendant to finish a young man ran up to our car and got in the back seat. He was crying and seemed afraid. We were alarmed and shocked. He said he was from Michigan and was hitchhiking to California as a high school graduation adventure. Some guy had picked him up and would not let him out of the car! When he slowed down in the town, Bob jumped out onto the pavement and ran to us. He said he felt safe to just get into our car. He asked us to take him to the nearest airport so he could go home. We said we would take him to SLC on our way to Provo.

Long  story short, as we drove we talked with him. He ended up finishing his trip. The Book of Mormon was for him. A year later he wrote that he had joined the Church. We lost track of him, but reconnected through Facebook a few years ago. He served a mission in Virginia and as a gay Mormon has been on an incredible journey in and out and back in the Church, but that's a different story.

 

 

 

[Tacenda]

3 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

We tracked all the time on my mission. It was hard work but I enjoyed it. We met some who had been prepared for our arrival. For example, we knocked on a door and when the lady answered, she said "Come in. We have been waiting for you." She told us she and her husband had both had dreams that two young men carrying hand bags would come with an important message for their rather large family. We carried ali our tracts and scriptures in what we called our "pious kits," a custom made leather bags kind of like a messenger bag. On our second visit the older son had memorized all the Articles of Faith! They all were baptized. I had several similar experiences.

It's very hard for me when it comes to talking with strangers, but I have been blessed with a few successful efforts to share the gospel with strangers. They have all come after prayer that God would put some in my way who was searching for the gospel and then be attentive and willing to respond when He does.

One summer when we were at BYU, Sister Gui and I went to Yellowstone NP. Our bishop had asked members to put a Book of Mormon on our car dashboards and then wait for someone to ask about it. We did it. On our trip no one asked. On the way home we stopped for gas in Afton, WY. As we were sitting waiting for the attendant to finish a young man ran up to our car and got in the back seat. He was crying and seemed afraid. We were alarmed and shocked. He said he was from Michigan and was hitchhiking to California as a high school graduation adventure. Some guy had picked him up and would not let him out of the car! When he slowed down in the town, Bob jumped out onto the pavement and ran to us. He said he felt safe to just get into our car. He asked us to take him to the nearest airport so he could go home. We said we would take him to SLC on our way to Provo.

Long  story short, as we drove we talked with him. He ended up finishing his trip. The Book of Mormon was for him. A year later he wrote that he had joined the Church. We lost track of him, but reconnected through Facebook a few years ago. He served a mission in Virginia and as a gay Mormon has been on an incredible journey in and out and back in the Church, but that's a different story.

 

 

 

(bold mine)

I love your story Bernard! I was waiting to hear that the guy happened to see the Book of Mormon on the dashboard and that is why he jumped in the car. Is that how it happened? Also, sadly, he isn't allowed to live his gayness in the church. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by Tacenda

[Bernard Gui]

44 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I love your story Bernard! I was waiting to hear that the guy happen to see the Book of Mormon on the dashboard and that is why he jumped in the car. Is that how it happened? Also, sadly, he isn't allowed to live his gayness in the church. 

I have permission to tell his story. He has been publicly active in several gay Mormon groups. 

He had a hard time on his mission. When he returned he left the Church and fully embraced the gay lifestyle, eventually contracting AIDS. After a number of years of this, one day in contemplation he came to realize that this was not him. He returned to the Xhurch and experienced repentance and reconciliation. He embraced celibacy and despite some horrific health health disaster that have decimated his body, he is a faithful member who has served in several branch presidencies and is now his branch mission leader. He is full of hope and spends every day as his conditions allow in service to others. He is perhaps the most saintly person I know. He trusts that in the eternities God will make everything perfect. Here is an excerpt from today's daily Facebook posts This is a typical day.

 

Quote

Hello, watched General Conference yesterday and as usual it was a hard time staying awake. Why on a Saturday afternoon sitting in a chair watching the TV should be the time I fall asleep rather that in the middle of the night?

 Know when I get the most out of Conference? It is when I have ordered the CD's and listen to conference in the car. And with my short term memory loss I don't recall much of anything that answered my Conference questions anyway! I know, take notes, then First: I can't remember to take notes. Second: To recall later that I have taken notes. Third: When I have taken notes, and can recall that I actually did take notes (usually when I run across them while searching for something else in my planner), then I can't recall what the notes were referring to and the point of the note. So, I listen anyway and cram it all into my brain cells knowing that in the next life I will have a perfect memory of all I have digested. 

Sister ----- is back from Milwaukee where she underwent her second round of plastic surgery. I've been taking care of her dogs, Abby & Missy. It has not been a burden at all. I feel a bit tired and don't want to fight fatigue all alone there and back the 68 mile round trip drive. 

Yesterday --- had called me and said that --- needed his Bayer Aspirin 325 mgs. She had given the money to her daughter several days ago and she still hadn't gotten them for him. So, I told her I would get them between sessions of conference. When I got there she had washed her kitchen curtains over the sink and could not get them hung back up. So managed to do that for her. I have no problem helping --- & ---- as they are both disabled with no car. Got back in time to be here when the missionaries got here for Conference. Then during Conference, as I had had my phones turned off so as to not be disturbed, Diane calls and she needs someone to go to the Drug Store and pick up her meds for her. They closed at 5:00 and it was 4:10 so someone had to go right away....... I told the missionaries that I'd go do it so they could enjoy Conference. On the way to ----'s I called her and told her I was on the way so someone would be waiting for me. 

The missionaries just called and they were at the Branch Presidents house having Coordination Meeting. They said that after Conference and after their dinner they'd come by about 6 or 6:30 and we'd head up to Sister -----'s with her babies. So I am thankful that that is now taken care of. 

Well the last Session of General Conference is beginning so I will probably be back at you after I return from Sister -----'s this evening. You have just been transported to 9:50 p.m. In Bob's World! The missionaries got here late as usual so we didn't leave until 7:00 but managed to get back about 8:30 or so. Been on the phone since getting home. Now it is time to lay back and pray for some sleep. I feel exhausted! FYI this was written in word and copied and pasted to here!

I hope you enjoyed General Conference Weekend! Have a great start of the week with Monday arriving!

 

Edited April 4, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[rongo]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

We tracked all the time on my mission. It was hard work but I enjoyed it. We met some who had been prepared for our arrival.

Thanks for sharing! I have *so* many stories and adventures from 10+ hours of door-to-door in northern German in the mid 1990s. Not a lot of baptisms, but great conversations and experiences. One night, I had a vision while praying. I saw a clear picture of a set of apartments that would be located if we rode our bikes quite a way down a canal. They were just as I pictured them. After locking up our bikes, I had the gift of tongues in those apartments, but only there. My German grammar and vocabulary were very good, but my accent was not (most people assumed I was British. I'm not sure if that's better or worse than American.  ). My accent was literally "loosed" off my tongue in these apartments. We taught more and had a much higher "get let in" rate there, and I have shared before my experience with the gay man who screamed at us but let us in and we had a good experience. We also were let in and allowed (by the daughter) to talk to a very old JW man. We didn't have plans of returning, but the next day, she came out to tell us as we walked by that her father had passed away that night, and that he asked her if she would let the two Mormon missionaries know. That felt special!

What you said above triggered another miracle in that place. We were immediately let in by a woman who told us she wouldn't have, except she saw my companion had a lazy eye. Her toddler son also had a lazy eye, and that's why she let us in --- she saw her son in him. She was a good, interested investigator whom we got far into the discussions with. 

I loved door-to-door.  

[stemelbow]

8 minutes ago, rongo said:

Thanks for sharing! I have *so* many stories and adventures from 10+ hours of door-to-door in northern German in the mid 1990s. Not a lot of baptisms, but great conversations and experiences. One night, I had a vision while praying. I saw a clear picture of a set of apartments that would be located if we rode our bikes quite a way down a canal. They were just as I pictured them. After locking up our bikes, I had the gift of tongues in those apartments, but only there. My German grammar and vocabulary were very good, but my accent was not (most people assumed I was British. I'm not sure if that's better or worse than American.  ). My accent was literally "loosed" off my tongue in these apartments. We taught more and had a much higher "get let in" rate there, and I have shared before my experience with the gay man who screamed at us but let us in and we had a good experience. We also were let in and allowed (by the daughter) to talk to a very old JW man. We didn't have plans of returning, but the next day, she came out to tell us as we walked by that her father had passed away that night, and that he asked her if she would let the two Mormon missionaries know. That felt special!

What you said above triggered another miracle in that place. We were immediately let in by a woman who told us she wouldn't have, except she saw my companion had a lazy eye. Her toddler son also had a lazy eye, and that's why she let us in --- she saw her son in him. She was a good, interested investigator whom we got far into the discussions with. 

I loved door-to-door.  

Wow all that in ten plus hours?  Doubling that effort could have really been beneficial it sounds like

[omni]

3 hours ago, rongo said:

I don't believe that every policy initiative is inspired. Just like with us, I don't believe that God micro-manages many policy changes (some, yes). 

This is particularly true when there are whiplash pendulum swings in policy and practice over 20 years, like with member and full-time missionary work. I think David Stewart made a good point in his book when, in outlining the ebb and flow of changes to the missionary program, he argued that this is a good indication that the Brethren don't know what to do with certain challenging aspects of the missionary program (and thus try different things, tinker, revisit, scrap, reinstate, etc.). 

In particular, I think that the focus on social media/iPad missionary work is a response to three things: 1) tens of thousands of missionaries who wouldn't otherwise have gone on a mission (the bar was lowered to get kids on missions and hopefully keep them active in the Church as young adults), 2) the massive electronics addiction of their generation, 3) overall lack of resiliency and ability to weather adversity. This can also be shown by, for example, our local counsel to shield missionaries from negative experiences and have them at the church nearly constantly.

The mission I live in pilots a lot of missionary programs, from which the Church learns and adjusts. I don't think that every thing the Church pilots is inspired, either. God allows people to "study it out in their minds," try out ideas, and learn from experience. 

 

I appreciate your pragmatic approach to how the Church institutes changes in it's missionary efforts, but how is this different from what any other church or company does?   I work in consulting, I see this approach by our clients all the time in which they use pilots programs or new initiatives to learn what works and what doesn't, so what sets the Church apart?

I think back to when I served a mission, we prayed over practically every decision we made, what street we would contact, what message we would share, what techniques we would use.  This wasn't the doctrine of Omni, we did this because we were taught to do so by our missionary presidents who were in turn taught by the brethren.    

As a tbm, it probably would have thrown me for a loop to think that a decision impacting the missionary work as significant as this would have been made without inspiration, but perhaps I had unrealistic expectations.  

Interestingly enough, with my faith transition, I find myself more in agreement with the Church's pragmatic approach than I would have as a tbm.  Go figure...

 

[Tacenda]

I loved reading this blog, it made me think of Rongo's story somewhat. Remember Elder Costa from this years conference? Well here is a story about him! What a great man. https://nerdygaymormon.tumblr.com/post/159164583009/so-do-you-remember-the-guy-in-yesterdays-general

[mfbukowski]

For what it is worth, on a mission one does not "track", one "tracts" by knocking on doors and handing out "tracts".

Tracts are pamphlets about religious matters.

Past tense would be "tracted".

https://bycommonconsent.com/2010/08/30/mormon-etymology-tracting/

Tracking is following the tracks of an animal.

[rongo]

19 hours ago, omni said:

I appreciate your pragmatic approach to how the Church institutes changes in it's missionary efforts, but how is this different from what any other church or company does?   I work in consulting, I see this approach by our clients all the time in which they use pilots programs or new initiatives to learn what works and what doesn't, so what sets the Church apart?

I think back to when I served a mission, we prayed over practically every decision we made, what street we would contact, what message we would share, what techniques we would use.  This wasn't the doctrine of Omni, we did this because we were taught to do so by our missionary presidents who were in turn taught by the brethren.    

As a tbm, it probably would have thrown me for a loop to think that a decision impacting the missionary work as significant as this would have been made without inspiration, but perhaps I had unrealistic expectations.  

Interestingly enough, with my faith transition, I find myself more in agreement with the Church's pragmatic approach than I would have as a tbm.  Go figure...

It doesn't throw me for a loop, and it is probably very healthy for me, faith crisis-wise, to think that many policy decisions, business moves, etc. are not remote-controlled by God. i.e., that God allows the Brethren to make many decisions on their own, and that this means that there are some setbacks, abortive initiatives, and learning from experience. I think much of the Church's governance currently is heavily-influenced by the law/business/education backgrounds of nearly all of the general authorities. I think God would be just as happy (and I would be more happy) if the Church were run much less as a corporation. 

For one thing, there would be less "death by PowerPoint" in top-down trainings . . .  

I believe that the major, big-picture things are run by God, and that the Church won't go astray or be left to another people. The keys are here to stay (even if the Church is over-corporatized, for a time).

[Bernard Gui]

22 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

For what it is worth, on a mission one does not "track", one "tracts" by knocking on doors and handing out "tracts".

Tracts are pamphlets about religious matters.

Past tense would be "tracted".

https://bycommonconsent.com/2010/08/30/mormon-etymology-tracting/

Tracking is following the tracks of an animal.

Thanks for keeping us on track with our tracts. We had a hard time keeping track of our supply of tracts. Some of them were very old...like the Ben Rich ones translated into Spanish. Sometimes while tracting, we passed out tracts with the address of the Church written on them, so in that way we could track them if they resulted in someone making tracks for the chapel because they read the tracts we left while tracting. Then we tracked the folks we had tracked out who attended and gave them more tracts to read.

Warning: Do not continue reading if you are easily offended by possible sacrilege.

Forgive me the crudeness, but in our mission there were few public bathrooms and if there were any they were not a place where you would want to go while tracting, if you get my drift, and none of them had TP, so, forgive me, at times we were forced to use our tracts for other purposes especially when getting an attack of the Dreaded Gambu while tracting and it wasn't possible to make tracks back to the pensión. Those printed on glossy paper were not useful, but those on regular paper, well....... Again, forgive me. Making tracks for the tall grass.........................

Edited April 6, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[mfbukowski]

51 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Thanks for keeping us on track with our tracts. We had a hard time keeping track of our supply of tracts. Some of them were very old...like the Ben Rich ones translated into Spanish. Sometimes while tracting, we passed out tracks with the address of the Church written on them, so in that way we could track them if they resulted in someone making tracks for the chapel because they read the tracts we left while tracting. Then we tracked the folks who attended and gave them more tracts to read.

Warning: Do not continue reading if you are easily offended by possible sacrilege.

Forgive me the crudeness, but in our mission there were few public bathrooms and if there were any they were not a place where you would want to go while tracting, if you get my drift, and none of them had TP, so, forgive me, at times we were forced to use our tracts for other purposes especially when getting an attack of the Dreaded Gambu while tracting and it wasn't possible to make tracks back to the pensión. Those printed on glossy paper were not useful, but those on regular paper, well....... Again, forgive me. Making tracks for the tall grass.........................

Bless you.

Honestly I think I would have left, I don't think I could have gone through that. I am a spoiled brat.