Popular Post cdowis Posted January 28, 2017 Popular Post Posted January 28, 2017 I feel that we would all agree that this Board has a responsibility to demonstrate and maintain respect for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The Board Guidelines are designed to show respectful discussions. For example, discussion of temple content are prohibited. Although not directly related, I feel that the Board should forbid discussions of confidential information that was ILLEGALLY taken from the church. These leaks are specifically designed to breed contempt for the apostles and prophets of the Lord, and the Restore Church. This material was stolen from the church and discussion of their contents should be banned from this forum. Any comments, observations? Current thread has been locked until moderators deliberate. 10
Popular Post Thinking Posted January 28, 2017 Popular Post Posted January 28, 2017 I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that there is difference between receiving privileged information from an inside source and actually breaking in (physically or electronically) and stealing the information. 5
Popular Post JLHPROF Posted January 28, 2017 Popular Post Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) I don't agree. I think preventing discussion on what has become public information concerning the Church we are members in (and is not sacred in nature) is a pointless endeavor and only serves to keep faithful members once again in the dark. It's that same thinking that kept the Council of 50 minutes locked in the FP Vault for decades or refusing to talk about polygamy. Should the information have been released. Of course not. Is it out there and being discussed? Yes. There is no benefit in keeping ourselves in the dark. Edited January 28, 2017 by JLHPROF 13
rodheadlee Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 22 minutes ago, cdowis said: I feel that we would all agree that this Board has a responsibility to demonstrate and maintain respect for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The Board Guidelines are designed to show respectful discussions. For example, discussion of temple content are prohibited. Although not directly related, I feel that the Board should forbid discussions of confidential information that was ILLEGALLY taken from the church. These leaks are specifically designed to breed contempt for the apostles and prophets of the Lord, and the Restore Church. This material was stolen from the church and discussion of their contents should be banned from this forum. Any comments, observations? I completely agree. I was chastised by some on this board for judging the actions of the thieves. It is beyond me how these people can feel righteous about this. 2
Robert F. Smith Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 34 minutes ago, rodheadlee said: I completely agree. I was chastised by some on this board for judging the actions of the thieves. It is beyond me how these people can feel righteous about this. Yet we glory in clever penetration of our enemies' greatest secrets (Nazis, Soviets, ChiComs, Al Qaeda, Daesh), since they are by definition the "bad guys." Just so, the MormonLeaks people see the LDS Church as an evil and hypocritical fraud, and fair game for any purloined disclosures. Some are angry and just want to get even, by hook or crook. 1
Popular Post Teancum Posted January 28, 2017 Popular Post Posted January 28, 2017 1 hour ago, cdowis said: I feel that we would all agree that this Board has a responsibility to demonstrate and maintain respect for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The Board Guidelines are designed to show respectful discussions. For example, discussion of temple content are prohibited. Although not directly related, I feel that the Board should forbid discussions of confidential information that was ILLEGALLY taken from the church. These leaks are specifically designed to breed contempt for the apostles and prophets of the Lord, and the Restore Church. This material was stolen from the church and discussion of their contents should be banned from this forum. Any comments, observations? I disagree. They are now a matter of public record. There is nothing sacred or special about their contents. What do you fear? 7
Popular Post bluebell Posted January 28, 2017 Popular Post Posted January 28, 2017 The board doesn't allow temple content because it's sacred, not because it's secret. Someone could publish the entire temple content on billboards and the board would still have that rule. It doesn't matter how many people know about it, it's never appropriate to discuss on a message board. These are different. They aren't sacred, and now that they are released I see no harm that comes from discussing them. 13
Calm Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 1 hour ago, JLHPROF said: I don't agree. I think preventing discussion on what has become public information concerning the Church we are members in (and is not sacred in nature) is a pointless endeavor and only serves to keep faithful members once again in the dark. It's that same thinking that kept the Council of 50 minutes locked in the FP Vault for decades or refusing to talk about polygamy. Should the information have been released. Of course not. Is it out there and being discussed? Yes. There is no benefit in keeping ourselves in the dark. I don't see not allowing the posting of links to and possibly discussion of the material as preventing since the info is out there, but rather showing the people who are involved in encouraging illegal acts as well as doing them what respect they deserve.
rodheadlee Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 36 minutes ago, Teancum said: I disagree. They are now a matter of public record. There is nothing sacred or special about their contents. What do you fear? Only God. 1
Popular Post The Nehor Posted January 28, 2017 Popular Post Posted January 28, 2017 I disagree. What if the memo on meetinghouse electrical company choices for Eastern Europe is finally released and I miss it because it is not brought up here? Then I would be sad..... 8
Guest Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 1 hour ago, JLHPROF said: I don't agree. I think preventing discussion on what has become public information concerning the Church we are members in (and is not sacred in nature) is a pointless endeavor and only serves to keep faithful members once again in the dark. It's that same thinking that kept the Council of 50 minutes locked in the FP Vault for decades or refusing to talk about polygamy. Should the information have been released. Of course not. Is it out there and being discussed? Yes. There is no benefit in keeping ourselves in the dark. In the dark about what; Internal Finance? I fail to see how this keeps members in the dark, or how illuminating finance will aid in the salvation of the members of the Church. 1
Jeanne Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 I can only say that church members can't defend if they don't know. 2
JulieM Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, cdowis said: Although not directly related, I feel that the Board should forbid discussions of confidential information that was ILLEGALLY taken from the church. Except we don't know these were taken illegally, do we? Also, if there's nothing to hide, why fear these leaks? I don't like censorship and feel this would be wrong to do here since this is a Mormon discussion board. Edited January 28, 2017 by JulieM 2
Jeanne Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 4 minutes ago, JulieM said: Except we don't know these were taken illegally, do we? Also, if there's nothing to hide, why fear these leaks? I don't like censorship and feel this would be wrong to do here since this is a Mormon discussion board. This was my thinking It seems..only seems..that cdowis is afraid of something. What is there to fear if all of this is meaningless...unless it is not.. 2
bluebell Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Jeanne said: This was my thinking It seems..only seems..that cdowis is afraid of something. What is there to fear if all of this is meaningless...unless it is not.. I don't think he's afraid of anything. I think he's coming at it from the same perspective Cal is. If someone is doing something that's not moral (forget legal or illegal for a minute. We can all agree that not everything that is legal is moral), then its reasonable for people who do want to be moral to not want to reward that behavior. I disagree with cdowis but I still think his thoughts on it are valid. 3
3DOP Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 2 hours ago, cdowis said: I feel that we would all agree that this Board has a responsibility to demonstrate and maintain respect for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. The Board Guidelines are designed to show respectful discussions. For example, discussion of temple content are prohibited. Although not directly related, I feel that the Board should forbid discussions of confidential information that was ILLEGALLY taken from the church. These leaks are specifically designed to breed contempt for the apostles and prophets of the Lord, and the Restore Church. This material was stolen from the church and discussion of their contents should be banned from this forum. Any comments, observations? Are you talking about the MormonLeaks thread? If so, it only looked like some money stuff, and minor at that. I would not have looked at it if not for this thread, and only looked at the opening post. Are news outlets interested in this? Don't give details if reading further would help me see what is so bad. I am just asking to know if I am misunderstanding the gravity of what has been revealed. ?, 3DOP
JulieM Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) 28 minutes ago, bluebell said: I don't think he's afraid of anything. I think he's coming at it from the same perspective Cal is. If someone is doing something that's not moral (forget legal or illegal for a minute. We can all agree that not everything that is legal is moral), then its reasonable for people who do want to be moral to not want to reward that behavior. I disagree with cdowis but I still think his thoughts on it are valid. I think there are enough voices here with various opinions and viewpoints to fairly represent and discuss this topic when a thread is started on it. Also, many topics may be about something that goes against someone's morals or values here but that's again why this is called a discussion board. Do we really want to censor anything some may find to be immoral? I don't know.... Edited January 28, 2017 by JulieM 2
VideoGameJunkie Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 It's just money stats not temple content.
bluebell Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 3 minutes ago, JulieM said: I think there are enough voices here with various opinions and viewpoints to fairly represent and discuss this topic when a thread is started on it. Also, many topics may be about something that goes against someone's morals or values here but that's again why this is called a discussion board. Do we really want to censor anything some may find to be immoral? I don't know.... Like i said, i don't agree with Cdowis's thoughts on the matter. But I also don't think he's making a plea for censorship. As far as i've seen, no one has suggesting removing any parts that might be problematic from the documents or redacting anything. He doesn't want to censor them (at least, he has said nothing about censoring them in anyway that i've read), so much as show respect to those who wanted them kept private by not encouraging people to look at them. Kind of like, if someone get's a hold of someone else's journal and starts passing it around a class, some kids might find it personally wrong on their part to not try to stop it. 2
JLHPROF Posted January 28, 2017 Posted January 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: In the dark about what; Internal Finance? I fail to see how this keeps members in the dark, or how illuminating finance will aid in the salvation of the members of the Church. I agree, these big "reveals" are of no importance. Just addressing the principle here - it serves no purpose to ignore information about our Church, even the meaningless kind.
cdowis Posted January 29, 2017 Author Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Teancum said: I disagree. They are now a matter of public record. There is nothing sacred or special about their contents. What do you fear? How cute, how clever to ignore the main issue. Sirrah, the complete temple endowment is a matter of public record, so that makes it legit to discuss in THIS forum? Edited January 29, 2017 by cdowis 1
JulieM Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 1 minute ago, cdowis said: The complete temple endowment is a matter of public record, so that makes it legit to discuss in THIS forum? I think there is definitely a reason to not discuss the sacred temple endowment or other sacred topics. Mormon leaks? Not sacred, IMO 1
JLHPROF Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 10 minutes ago, cdowis said: How cute, how clever to ignore the main issue. Sirrah, the complete temple endowment is a matter of public record, so that makes it legit to discuss in THIS forum? Sacred. Different issue. 1
Glenn101 Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 After getting a glimpse of the less than shocking details of some of those leaked documents, I have just ignored the topic myself. Those who wish to go there are following their agency, to which they are entitled. I think that the actions of those leakers are morally reprehensible and will not help them further their agenda, whatever it is. Glenn 1
Calm Posted January 29, 2017 Posted January 29, 2017 3 hours ago, 3DOP said: Are you talking about the MormonLeaks thread? If so, it only looked like some money stuff, and minor at that. I would not have looked at it if not for this thread, and only looked at the opening post. Are news outlets interested in this? Don't give details if reading further would help me see what is so bad. I am just asking to know if I am misunderstanding the gravity of what has been revealed. ?, 3DOP I don't think anything problematic has been revealed for myself, though apparently some people disapprove of the likely 120,000 stipend that GAs are eligible for (whether or not they take it, how much, and what they do with it is unknown save for one apostle showing he paid for his rent/mortgage though it was tax exempt as a parsonage and paid tithing on the gross amount). The first release of documents there was some interest by news outlets, I haven't seen any since then...there have been three or four released sets. The issue for me is whether it is legal to encourage others to give confidential materials to those they do not belong to, also I think it is immoral in the majority of cases. I think the best reason to do so is if demonstratively it helps save lives and exposes actual fraud. Fraud that is expected to show up so they go fishing....not right. I don't think anyone has the moral right to solicit records on the chance they might expose speculative fraud or damage. Anyone who does so should being willing to be public in their action unless they have been directed by law enforcement to hide their identity. Unless exposing government corruption, if one suspects fraud from confidential documentation they find, they should turn it over to law enforcement to deal with so that it avoids improperly exposing innocent or even just dumb people to public harassment. Government corruption is in a class of its own due to the difficulty of conflict of interest, so should be judged on a case by case basis. ---- I have some very high privacy standards for private individuals, which probably influence how I think companies' privacy should be respected as well. 1
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