Bernard Gui Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 42 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: I'm actually surprised they're paid so little Which I extrapolate to conclude the Church handles our donations with integrity, care, and thrift. In other words, the Brethren merit our trust. 4
Duncan Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Just now, rockpond said: It's very interesting. Turns out much of the funding of BYU is coming from the Canadian saints. Thanks Duncan & co! little do they know we pay in Maple syrup,........ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, what's this!!!!! security!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Calm Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 30 minutes ago, Okrahomer said: The average age at ordination is 57.73 years, and the median age is 59--based on my handy-dandy Excel spreadsheet. Thomas S. Monson 21-Aug-27 10-Oct-63 36 Henry B. Eyring 31-May-33 1-Apr-95 61 Dieter F. Uchtdorf 6-Nov-40 2-Oct-07 66 Russell M. Nelson 9-Sep-24 7-Apr-84 59 Dallin H. Oaks 12-Aug-32 1-May-84 51 M. Russell Ballard 8-Oct-28 6-Oct-85 56 Robert D. Hales 24-Aug-32 2-Apr-92 59 Jeffery R. Holland 3-Dec-40 23-Jun-94 53 David A. Bednar 15-Jun-52 7-Oct-04 52 Quenten L. Cook 8-Sep-40 6-Oct-07 67 D. Todd Christofferson 24-Jan-45 5-Apr-08 63 Neil L. Andersen 9-Aug-51 4-Apr-09 57 Ronald A. Rasband 6-Feb-51 3-Oct-15 64 Gary E. Stevenson 6-Aug-55 3-Oct-15 60 Dale G. Renlund 13-Nov-52 3-Oct-15 62 57.73333333 I would remove Pres. Monson as an outlier to go for typical age at calling.
Johnnie Cake Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Which I extrapolate to conclude the Church handles our donations with integrity, care, and thrift. In other words, the Brethren merit our trust. They're believers, I have no doubt...but that's no reason to trust what they say...maybe trust, question, test and scrutinize would be a better process...then reject what doesn't pass scrutiny Edited January 10, 2017 by Johnnie Cake
Okrahomer Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, Calm said: I would remove Pres. Monson as an outlier to go for typical age at calling. Your wish is my command: Henry B. Eyring 31-May-33 1-Apr-95 61 Dieter F. Uchtdorf 6-Nov-40 2-Oct-07 66 Russell M. Nelson 9-Sep-24 7-Apr-84 59 Dallin H. Oaks 12-Aug-32 1-May-84 51 M. Russell Ballard 8-Oct-28 6-Oct-85 56 Robert D. Hales 24-Aug-32 2-Apr-92 59 Jeffery R. Holland 3-Dec-40 23-Jun-94 53 David A. Bednar 15-Jun-52 7-Oct-04 52 Quenten L. Cook 8-Sep-40 6-Oct-07 67 D. Todd Christofferson 24-Jan-45 5-Apr-08 63 Neil L. Andersen 9-Aug-51 4-Apr-09 57 Ronald A. Rasband 6-Feb-51 3-Oct-15 64 Gary E. Stevenson 6-Aug-55 3-Oct-15 60 Dale G. Renlund 13-Nov-52 3-Oct-15 62 59.3 Average 59.5 Mean 1
Bernard Gui Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) I read somewhere that among the generous benefits provided out of tithing funds and enjoyed by the Brethren are timeshares in exotic resorts in Costa Rica, the Riviera, Luxembourg, and Spanish Fork, their choice of a chaufered Tesla X model or BMW i8 with free parking at BYU home games, a Luxe Sea Falcon motor boat and a slip at the Great Salt Lake Yacht Club, and free refills of Ironport at Porter's Place in Lehi. Edited January 10, 2017 by Bernard Gui 2
Popular Post Hamba Tuhan Posted January 10, 2017 Popular Post Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I really don't think the Lord likes how the church spends His money. Nothing in the Bible about malls, land development etc. But what about very costly spikenard? How does He feel about that, I wonder... Edited January 10, 2017 by Hamba Tuhan 5
Bernard Gui Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: They're believers, I have no doubt...but that's no reason to trust what they say...maybe trust, question, test and scrutinize would be a better process...then reject what doesn't pass scrutiny I'll leave that up to you....then you can report back here when you finally ferret out their perfidy. 2
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 11 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: They're believers, I have no doubt...but that's no reason to trust what they say...maybe trust, question, test and scrutinize would be a better process...then reject what doesn't pass scrutiny Now there's an idea! I wonder why I'd never thought of that before? 1
JLHPROF Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 7 hours ago, rockpond said: Only one quote caught my eye: "It has been noticed that the disrespect for the temple and grounds is increasing at the Salt Lake Temple. Children are knocking on doors, playing on steps, etc. It is a great privelage [sic] to be able to go up and touch the temple. This privelege [sic, with a different misspelling] might be taken away if there isn't a better control of the facilities. Bro. Olsen was given the assignment to post couples at the bottom of the stairs to keep people reverent around the temple." When I was a youth the temple was not accessible to the public. The gates were kept closed direct contact with the temple by tourists was not possible. That policy changed quite a few years back and I like that. But I have to say I agree 100%. I posted a while back how people walk their dogs around the temple now, kids do play and run crazy, there is definitely a loss of reverence.
Duncan Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Just now, Bernard Gui said: I read somewhere that among the generous benefits enjoyed by the Brethren are timeshares in exotic resorts in Costa Rica, the Riviera, Luxembourg, and Spanish Fork, their choice of a chaufered Tesla X model or BMW i8 with free parking at BYU home games, a Luxe Sea Falcon motor boat and a slip at the Great Salt Lake Yacht Club, and free refills of Ironport at Porter's Place in Lehi. but would you want to attend a BYU game? and you might get attacked by the whales in the Great Salt Lake! 2
rodheadlee Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 57 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I really don't think the Lord likes how the church spends His money. Nothing in the Bible about malls, land development etc. Maybe shelters, hospitals, nursing homes, would be better suited. 14 ¶ For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods. 15 And unto one he agave five btalents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey. 16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made them other five talents. 17 And likewise he that had received two, he also gained other two. 18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money. 19 After a long time the lord of those servants cometh, and areckoneth with them. 20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou adeliveredst unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more. 21 His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful aservant: thou hast been bfaithful over a few things, I will make thee cruler over many things: enter thou into the djoy of thy lord. 22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou deliveredst unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them. 23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and afaithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord. 24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an ahard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed: 25 And I was aafraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, there thou hast that is thine. 26 His lord answered and said unto him, Thou wicked and aslothful servant, thou knewest that I breap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed: 27 Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with ausury. 28 Take therefore the atalent from him, and give it unto him which hath ten talents. 29 For unto every one that hath shall be agiven, and he shall have babundance: but from him that hath not shall be ctaken away even that which he hath. 30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 4
Popular Post Bernard Gui Posted January 10, 2017 Popular Post Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) 13 hours ago, Tacenda said: I really don't think the Lord likes how the church spends His money. Nothing in the Bible about malls, land development etc. Maybe shelters, hospitals, nursing homes, would be better suited. I propose a Mormon version of Godwin's Law. "As a Mormondialogues discussion grows longer, the probability of someone bringing up the City Creek Mall approaches 1." Corollary 1. The thread is immediately closed. Corollary 2. The person who first mentions the Mall buys all participants a round of Henry Weinhard Root Beer. We can call it Mahonri Moriancumer's Law. All in favor, please indicate by the uplifted hand. Any opposed by the same sign. [Tip o' the hat to Kenngo] Edited January 10, 2017 by Bernard Gui 5
Tacenda Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 Just now, Bernard Gui said: I propose a Mormon version of Godwin's Law. "As a Mormondialogues discussion grows longer, the probability of someone bringing up the City Creek Mall approaches 1." Corollary 1. The thread is immediately closed. Corollary 2. The person who first mentions the Mall buys all participants a round of Henry Weinhard Root Beer. All in favor, raise your hands. I know, the minute I typed mall, I knew how it would look. But what to do, what to do? I'm stuck in my thought process. But do know the church is preparing for a rainy day. They may even hold this country together. So I'm not totally against their money ventures. 2
JLHPROF Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: I really don't think the Lord likes how the church spends His money. Nothing in the Bible about malls, land development etc. Maybe shelters, hospitals, nursing homes, would be better suited. I don't agree at all. The Church has always been about temporal as well as spiritual. Business ventures are a part of the Mormon religion since the very beginning. The examples are too many to list. Providing employment to people is a far better thing that providing handouts. And giving to the poor doesn't prove you have any charity any better. I Corinthians 13: 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. So what then is true charity? Are we missing the mark in our wishes for so-called "charities"? 1
mfbukowski Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, rockpond said: What world do you live in? "Mad Men"? You don't? How do you think I get all this time to waste on this board? I quit drinking martinis! Edited January 10, 2017 by mfbukowski 1
Tacenda Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 40 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Which I extrapolate to conclude the Church handles our donations with integrity, care, and thrift. In other words, the Brethren merit our trust. I swear I read that some apostles or one that I know about, doesn't accept his stipend.
JLHPROF Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 8 minutes ago, rodheadlee said: 29 For unto every one that hath shall be agiven, and he shall have babundance: but from him that hath not shall be ctaken away even that which he hath. Interesting aside on the parable of the talents especially given another thread right now: In April of 1843, the Prophet told Benjamin F. Johnson “that he would preach a sermon that day for me, which I would understand, while the rest of the congregation would not comprehend his meaning. His subject was the ten talents spoken of by the Savior, ‘unto him that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundantly, but from that hath not (or will not receive) shall be taken away that which he hath, (or might have had.)’ Plainly giving me to understand that the talents represented wives and children as the principle of enlargement throughout the great future, to those who were heirs of Salvation” (Andrew F. Ehat, and Lyndon W. Cook, eds. The Words of Joseph Smith: The Contemporary Accounts of the Nauvoo Discourses of the Prophet Joseph [Orem, Utah: Grandin Book Company, 1980], 2 April 1843 [2] Note, No. 9., p.269). [Note in the revelation on Celestial Marriage (D&C 132) there are various phrases taken from the parable of the talents such as in D&C 132:44.] /End derail 1
Tacenda Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: I don't agree at all. The Church has always been about temporal as well as spiritual. Business ventures are a part of the Mormon religion since the very beginning. The examples are too many to list. Providing employment to people is a far better thing that providing handouts. And giving to the poor doesn't prove you have any charity any better. I Corinthians 13: 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. So what then is true charity? Are we missing the mark in our wishes for so-called "charities"? Hospitals, nursing homes and shelters provide jobs. But I don't care to argue. I do get it. I do see the efforts the church makes to help the needy and feed them, I really do, but sometimes when the church does what it does elsewhere I forget. 1
Bernard Gui Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 10 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I know, the minute I typed mall, I knew how it would look. But what to do, what to do? I'm stuck in my thought process. But do know the church is preparing for a rainy day. They may even hold this country together. So I'm not totally against their money ventures. I want my Henry's. 1
JLHPROF Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 2 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Hospitals, nursing homes and shelters provide jobs. But I don't care to argue. I do get it. I do see the efforts the church makes to help the needy and feed them, I really do, but sometimes when the church does what it does elsewhere I forget. I don't really care to argue about this (again) either. I just fail to see where the supposed flaw in Church financial ventures violates ANY gospel principle.
sdc999 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 So they get paid.... That really is no big deal. What I find kind of funny is that since this was published, EVERY LDS person that has spoken on the subject seems to have had this knowledge, according to themselves, since they were two. They grew up playing with GA dolls pretending to get their stipend on the first and 15th. Who needed Barbi and Ken? They had Ballard and Hales and Monson. Gather round kids, we are going to tell a story of how polygamy was started. No kiddos, it wasn't because men died on the trek and women couldn't own land so men (only 57 survived the trip while all women made it unscathed) were kind enough to marry them to allow them to continue on ---- and nothing more. Sure kids, there are unpaid clergy within our ranks but many get paid and we call it a stipend. Anybody that tells you any different is totally anti-mormon and quitting the church because they got their feelings hurt. Okay, so I'm poking fun. But come on..... There are plenty of members that promoted a less than accurate account of the facts. And some still to this day. Just not on this board.
cdowis Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 (edited) 9 hours ago, sjdawg said: At some point I believe the LDS Church will need to become more transparent with finances or these types of leaks will become more common And the church would then give into the notion that it is not a sacred, holy gift from God, that it is merely a business, and a prophet of God, an apostle called by God is nothing more than a salaried employee. Rather than listening to their message to the world, the focus would become "what are you doing to earn your salary". This is a deliberate act to make the church an object of scorn == "why is he flying first class", "who owns the house he live in",, etc. The steward of the Titanic shouting, "Get to the lifeboats" and the passengers are responding, "You need to shine your shoes and your socks are mismatched." Edited January 10, 2017 by cdowis 1
Kenngo1969 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: I propose a Mormon version of Godwin's Law. "As a Mormondialogues discussion grows longer, the probability of someone bringing up the City Creek Mall approaches 1." Corollary 1. The thread is immediately closed. Corollary 2. The person who first mentions the Mall buys all participants a round of Henry Weinhard Root Beer. We can call it Mahonri Moriancumer's Law. All in favor, raise your hands. I agree, but I would rephrase your closing clause: "All in favor, please indicate by the uplifted hand. Any opposed?" 1
Kenngo1969 Posted January 10, 2017 Posted January 10, 2017 7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: I want my Henry's. https://www.beveragesdirect.com/products/henry-weinhards-root-beer?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=2969371457&gclid=Cj0KEQiAqdLDBRDD-b2sv6-i6MsBEiQAkT3wAqJYUdUpwPlDmH4NsV59PDRyXnc6nKnnWIYUgkikctgaArQt8P8HAQ $30 for a 12-pack, not including shipping? Must be the hard stuff!
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