bsjkki Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) Found this breakdown of Utah votes interesting. Evan Mcmullin is winning the active Mormon vote. http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2016/10/21/utah-trump-30-mcmullin-29-clinton-25/. On my morning drive the two morning talk radio hosts were mocking Utah for voting for a guy no one else had heard of. Original source for statistics http://utahpolicy.com/index.php/features/today-at-utah-policy/11183-trump-leads-mcmullin-by-one-point-among-likely-utah-voters Edited October 21, 2016 by bsjkki 2
The Nehor Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 McMullin 2016! Best protest vote since Smith 1844! 2
JLHPROF Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Calm said: May make him a contender for next time... Or at the very least show other states that they don't have to vote Republican or Democrat. "There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party." - Joseph Smith Right on schedule I think... Edited October 21, 2016 by JLHPROF
rodheadlee Posted October 21, 2016 Posted October 21, 2016 I had never heard of Evan until this thread.
bsjkki Posted October 21, 2016 Author Posted October 21, 2016 I agree with this article. Mormons are getting played. http://conservativepath.blogspot.com/2016/10/guest-article-truth-about-evan-mcmullin.html
sunstoned Posted October 22, 2016 Posted October 22, 2016 I am all for breaking out of the two party system. Vote your conscience! 2
The Nehor Posted October 22, 2016 Posted October 22, 2016 5 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Or at the very least show other states that they don't have to vote Republican or Democrat. "There will be two great political parties in this country. One will be called the Republican, and the other the Democrat party. These two parties will go to war and out of these two parties will spring another party which will be the Independent American Party." - Joseph Smith Right on schedule I think... To say it is right on schedule you have to know the schedule. The two parties have not gone to war unless you call the Republican self-immolation a war but that is more like a civil war. 1
JLHPROF Posted October 22, 2016 Posted October 22, 2016 5 hours ago, bsjkki said: I agree with this article. Mormons are getting played. http://conservativepath.blogspot.com/2016/10/guest-article-truth-about-evan-mcmullin.html 1. Losing Utah does nothing to gain Hilary the Presidency. The idea that McMullin is running to help Clinton is silly. 2. If anyone is a plant to get the very unpopular Hillary elected - well, it is probably this guy: 3
JLHPROF Posted October 22, 2016 Posted October 22, 2016 53 minutes ago, The Nehor said: To say it is right on schedule you have to know the schedule. The two parties have not gone to war unless you call the Republican self-immolation a war but that is more like a civil war. A 50/50 split in the country is an ideological civil war. And more and more people are declaring themselves independents.
The Nehor Posted October 22, 2016 Posted October 22, 2016 12 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: A 50/50 split in the country is an ideological civil war. And more and more people are declaring themselves independents. So we have been in an idealogical civil war since the Jefferson presidency give or take a few years? 1
Popular Post The Nehor Posted October 22, 2016 Popular Post Posted October 22, 2016 (edited) 16 hours ago, bsjkki said: I agree with this article. Mormons are getting played. http://conservativepath.blogspot.com/2016/10/guest-article-truth-about-evan-mcmullin.html A long angry article about how not voting for Trump makes you a gullible weak-minded dupe. The author then rambles on about fraud in Utah for some reason which she never follows up on and then ends with an impassioned plea to vote Trump because he respects the rights of Christians and will not appoint evil Supreme Court Justices. His argument is that not voting for Trump may mean Trump will not win. Well, DUH. That is why there are voting for someone else. They do not want to support Trump because they do not want him to win. On a practical level you have to have a majority of the electoral votes to win so if Mcmullin wins Utah then whoever got the absolute majority will still win. In the unlikely event Utah's defection means no one gets that majority the Presidency gets thrown to the House of Representatives (and the VP pick goes to the Senate). The only real way this can help Clinton win is if she wins Utah (and needs it). If that were the case and Mcmullin has a good chance of winning if people do not split between Trump and Mcmullin then the nest strategy for Trump is for the Trump campaign to encourage everyone to vote for Mcmullin so the vote is not diluted and Clinton will not win. Really this is just sour grapes masquerading as concern for mythical larger implications which are unlikely to matter. Plus the author is an insulting jerk who buys into the mythical struggle the Tea Party and Right-Wing talk radio try to sell. A quote from the article "Crony Capitalist Spoiler. No one in the world including Evan McMullin believes Evan McMullin is going to be elected President. What the corrupted Republican establishment and the Clinton campaign hope is that he will keep Donald Trump from getting to 270 electoral votes and thus guarantee a Hillary presidency." So she thinks it is news to everyone that McMullin is not going to win the election? Oh, and the whole thing is a conspiracy of course. Now the Republicans are all active Clinton supporters? Well, Staci, maybe next time Republicans shouldn't be total morons and should avoid selecting a reprehensible moron with the political instincts and nuanced political understanding of a rampaging bull in a china shop as their candidate. Hopefully lesson learned for 2020. Clinton is unliked. If we Republicans had used that keen long-range strategic thinking you suggested a little more we would have realized that pretty much any other candidate would have had a better chance and probably would have won with ease against Clinton. Don't blame Mormons because the Republican base is filled with idiots who made a terrible choice. Many of us do not want to support your idiocy. If we can hold not voting for idiots over your head to make you not make an idiotic choice in 2020 then I consider a vote for McMullin an excellent vote. McMullin 2020! Edited October 22, 2016 by The Nehor 7
Robert F. Smith Posted October 22, 2016 Posted October 22, 2016 8 hours ago, rodheadlee said: I had never heard of Evan until this thread. He is LDS, unmarried, 40 years of age, a graduate of BYU, and of the Wharton School. He was a CIA operations officer, and more recently Chief Policy Director for the House Republican Conference in the U.S. House of Representatives. His running mate is Mindy Finn, a mother of two, a graduate of Boston Univ and of George Washington Univ. The latest polls have McMullin winning Utah at 31%, against Trump at 27%, and Clinton at 24%, and the statistics are changing rapidly.
JLHPROF Posted October 22, 2016 Posted October 22, 2016 13 hours ago, The Nehor said: So we have been in an idealogical civil war since the Jefferson presidency give or take a few years? Well at least since Reagan was reelected like this - the last time the American people basically agreed politically:
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 22, 2016 Posted October 22, 2016 I'm voting for Evan McMullin. I want to see a 3rd party candidate win a state and being Mormon with morals adds to that.
Rain Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) I think it is funny that the article says we should answer the question of have we ever heard of McMullin before this year. How many presidential candidates have I heard of before the election year? I realize that I am not political and many of those candidates are known longer than I know them, but I've come to discover that I often know of candidates longer than many of my friends. So no, it doesn't bother me that he wasn't well known before this year. I am so tired of hearing that my vote is being thrown away. Personally, I feel that the only votes thrown away are the ones used for voting on "the lesser of two evils". Seriously, if everyone quit doing that we wouldn't be where we are today. Stand for something. Vote for the best candidate, be that democrat, republican or third party. Don't vote against someone because he/she is the lesser of 2 evils. Edited October 23, 2016 by Rain 3
The Nehor Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 Trump just gave a 100 days speech outlining his plan for the first 100 days in office. It included stuff he has said before like keeping politicians from becoming lobbyists, term limits for Congress, ending all international climate change funding by the US government, and the deportation of 2 million immigrants. He also talked again about the rampant electoral fraud he expects to somehow see despite the fact that elections are about as decentralized as they can be and would be difficult to impossible to infiltrate. It veers into nutzoid conspiracy rambling. The new stuff is equally interesting. He has announced he is going to break up some media conglomerates (specifically those he believes were unfair to him during the campaign), sue every woman who has made accusations of sexual misconduct about him, file suit against political operatives who planted protesters in his rallies, and railed against how unfair the campaign has been. First time I have heard such a focused "personal revenge" platform as the policy position of a presidential candidate. 3
bluebell Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 3 hours ago, The Nehor said: First time I have heard such a focused "personal revenge" platform as the policy position of a presidential candidate. It's terrifying to think that such a man could have the capability of launching nuclear weapons against his enemies. 2
JLHPROF Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 1 hour ago, bluebell said: It's terrifying to think that such a man could have the capability of launching nuclear weapons against his enemies. Won't happen. He has as much chance of winning the Presidency as I do.
Tacenda Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 5 hours ago, The Nehor said: Trump just gave a 100 days speech outlining his plan for the first 100 days in office. It included stuff he has said before like keeping politicians from becoming lobbyists, term limits for Congress, ending all international climate change funding by the US government, and the deportation of 2 million immigrants. He also talked again about the rampant electoral fraud he expects to somehow see despite the fact that elections are about as decentralized as they can be and would be difficult to impossible to infiltrate. It veers into nutzoid conspiracy rambling. The new stuff is equally interesting. He has announced he is going to break up some media conglomerates (specifically those he believes were unfair to him during the campaign), sue every woman who has made accusations of sexual misconduct about him, file suit against political operatives who planted protesters in his rallies, and railed against how unfair the campaign has been. First time I have heard such a focused "personal revenge" platform as the policy position of a presidential candidate. He's going to sue these women while in office? Wow, I guess the American people will just have to understand he's too busy gettng revenge on people. And he's going after many more, he's going to be too busy to run the nation. http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/02/26/donald-trump-promises-to-sue-the-media-for-nega/208842 And here he's too busy worrying about getting back at these people.http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/trump-richard-branson-destroy-5-people-230150
Calm Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 10 hours ago, The Nehor said: . First time I have heard such a focused "personal revenge" platform as the policy position of a presidential candidate. I am not the least bit surprised, predicted that to myself...just thought he would do it though, not announce it.
Calm Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 4 hours ago, Tacenda said: He's going to sue these women while in office? Wow, I guess the American people will just have to understand he's too busy gettng revenge on people. And he's going after many more, he's going to be too busy to run the nation. http://mediamatters.org/video/2016/02/26/donald-trump-promises-to-sue-the-media-for-nega/208842 And here he's too busy worrying about getting back at these people.http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/trump-richard-branson-destroy-5-people-230150 Is he going to personally sue them or try and use the Justice Dept so the government (meaning taxpayers) pay the lawyers' fee? Sometimes I wonder if he intentionally trying to lose so he won't have to take a job he is so unsuited for, without others being able to say he backed down and with him already establishing his refrain that he would have won if only someone had done something about the fraud. 2
Calm Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 6 hours ago, bluebell said: It's terrifying to think that such a man could have the capability of launching nuclear weapons against his enemies. They might just change the law requiring someone else to agree. Might not be a bad idea.
BCSpace Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) On 10/21/2016 at 5:16 PM, rodheadlee said: I had never heard of Evan until this thread. He's a candidate supported by a union of Democrats and Establishment Republicans afraid of Trump overturning the status quo in Washington so they need a spoiler. In other words, Utah Mormons are being duped just as easily as they are with multi-level marketing Ponzi schemes. These Mormons are even throwing around a quote falsely attributed to Ezra Taft Benson regarding the lesser of two evils to justify their actions. Of course pealing away a state or two from Trump will put Hillary in the White House and is evidence that McMullin voters have sold out on the far more important principles for their distaste in the character of one man. Consider the allegations against Bill Clinton in the 1990's which were stronger than those against Trump today. The Democrats circled the wagons around him because they new they what they stood for was more important than the character of the man who was going to be the instrument of implementing their policies. And now they stand to gain everything because they've convinced good but gullible people to not stand up for what they believe in and vote for McMullin instead. I would simply ask, do you honestly believe we can recover in our lifetimes if Hillary picks the judges and buys millions of Leftwing votes through amnestying millions of illegal aliens? The argument that Evan McMullin is the unprincipled vote is clear and strong. For example: Quote I challenge any Evan McMullin supporter to tell me what they knew about Evan McMullin a year ago. Unless you are one of maybe a hundred people who ran into him at your ward picnic, the answer is nothing. That’s my answer and I am a huge political junkie. To the dismay of my family I can rattle on about all sorts of obscure politicians and behind the scenes players who influence elected politicians, but for the life of me I couldn’t have told you a thing about Evan McMullin... because he was a nobody. McMullin worked for the UN for a bit. He worked for the CIA for 10 years – doing what? He can’t really tell us much….“It’s secret.” He worked for the bankers at Goldman Sachs for a few years…. “His work was private.” And then he went to work for the Republican House Conference where he did… well he can’t really say…“it’s confidential.” On his Facebook page for the three years prior to running for President, he never posted about social issues, economic, or domestic issues. He says now he is personally against gay marriage but thinks the Supreme Court's decision is fine and wants to move on. Summer 2016 rolls around and political outsider Donald Trump wins the Republican nomination and suddenly Evan McMullin is the 3rd party choice of establishment Republicans from the Bush and Romney families and of the Wall Street donor wing of the GOP. I have been a Republican since I first registered to vote. I have worked with hundreds of Republican campaigns going back 20 years, I have served in party office here in Arizona. I have always supported Republican candidates but I will be the first to tell you that there are a lot of dirty Republicans. The reason so many people look at politics today and say there is no difference between the Republican and the Democrat on their ballot is because all too often it’s true. There is a powerful and established section of the Republican leadership (elected officials, party members, big donors) who do not support the values of grassroots conservative Republicans. They are bought and paid for by large corporate interests. They seek the approval of the liberal media, academia, and Hollywood. They support open borders, amnesty for illegal aliens, free trade even when it’s not in most Americans’ best interest, gay marriage, abortion, euthanasia, and a plethora of foolish wars and bad foreign policy. These Republicans are terrified that if Donald Trump is elected president there will be major shakeups in Washington. He will shine a light on the dark backroom deals that have resulted in policies like Obamacare, The failed war in Syria, and 20 trillion dollars in debt. The livelihoods of their wealthy corporate backers are on the line and with that their own power and perks in Washington. For that reason they would rather see Hillary Clinton become president than Donald Trump. They feel like they can work with Hillary. So enter Evan McMullin, Crony Capitalist Spoiler. No one in the world including Evan McMullin believes Evan McMullin is going to be elected President. What the corrupted Republican establishment and the Clinton campaign hope is that he will keep Donald Trump from getting to 270 electoral votes and thus guarantee a Hillary presidency. But How? Enter the Mormon Suckers. I am proud to be a Mormon so it pains me to say what I am about say. When the GOP Establishment Never Trumpers and their Clinton allies went looking for a 3rd party spoiler they needed someone with a constituency of sheeple who would follow him regardless of the obvious logical outcome (President Hillary.) There were plenty of Republican politicians who had lost to Trump in the primary or who had foregone a run in 2016 and didn’t like Trump much or were outright hostile to him, but not a one of them would put their name on the line and be the fall guy who put Hillary in office. So plan B – find a weak-minded demographic and create a leader for them. I know a lot of Mormons. Most of them are Republicans. Most of them are pretty conservative Republicans. A good number these days still vote Republican but are registered independents because they support more conservative or Tea Party values than they see in the current Republican Party. There are great Mormon conservatives serving in DC and in state offices throughout the country. Mormons are proud to point out that Utah is the State where Bill Clinton didn’t just lose, he got 3rd place in the 1992 presidential election. The LDS Church does not endorse candidates. The LDS Church leadership does however strongly encourage it members to be informed, to be involved, to vote and to serve. The Mormon demographic is overwhelmingly pro-life, pro-family, anti-communist, and protective of the Constitution they believe was divinely inspired. So how do you get these folks to throw an election to Hillary Clinton, someone whom most of them revile? It’s a complex but straightforward sociological scheme. In addition to being hardworking, God fearing, Mom, Apple Pie and Baseball loving Americans, Mormons are also some of the biggest suckers in the nation. Utah leads the nation in financial fraud schemes. Anti-Mormon critics like to point out the huge amount of Ponzi schemes, real estate fraud, and stock swindles and say it is because Mormons are sneaky, greedy liars. Make no bones about it. Like in any community there some bad apples and Utah has its fair share. In that fair share there are plenty of Mormons but Mormons are no more criminal than most, in fact statistically they are quite a bit less criminal than the average American. But the real reason that Utah frauds are so successful is not that the conmen are any wilier than a Baptist or Catholic conman. It’s because they have a highly homogenous market of overly trusting people. They want to believe you’re a good person and they want to help out the good person. In 2016 that good person is Evan McMullin. The Never Trumpers couldn't talk Romney into another run, or Huntsman or any Mormon politician you had ever heard of. So they created Evan McMullin from thin air and Goldman Sachs receipts. Evan is a good member of the Church. Mormons are tight knit and like to support their own, hence Mitt Romney's 93% win in the 2012 Utah primary despite the fact the many Utah Republicans had more in common politically with Newt Gingrich or Rick Santorum. So here comes the conman’s pitch – “Evan is a good man, he’s one of us, you don’t have to vote for dirty nasty Donald Trump who has been divorced twice, who swears a lot, who won’t apologize when he hurts people’s feelings.” This is where not all, not even most, but a sadly sizeable number or Mormon patsies reach for their wallet, or in this case their ballot. They've been told and sold that by voting for Evan they don’t have to shed their values and principles. They don’t have to choose the lesser of two evils. But that is the lie that the Evan McMullin candidacy is built on, because in 2016 you do have to choose between one of two people who will be the next President: Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton. A vote for anyone but Trump helps Clinton to move ahead and to defeat Trump. A Hillary Clinton presidency is one where she will most likely appoint three Supreme Court Justices. They will be radical liberals. They will stand against everything political that good and faithful Mormons believe in. They will gut the 1st, 2nd, and 10th Amendments. They will force all Christians denominations to have gay clergy and to perform gay weddings in their churches or temples. They will bring back abortion on demand at any time during the pregnancy, paid for by taxpayers, performed in church owned hospitals, performed by Christian doctors who will be forced to do so or lose their license. Euthanasia will be the law of the land, not just for the terminally ill and elderly but for handicapped and unwanted children. Did you imagine 20 years ago that gay marriage would be legal in all 50 states, mandated by liberal judges despite the sentiment of voters? Did you imagine you would be forced to buy overpriced and underperforming health insurance or be fined by the government? And these things came about with a Supreme Court that was evenly split between conservatives and liberals. Hillary’s new liberal Court will steamroll the America you once knew. You won’t recognize it anymore. Her tried and failed economic policies of higher taxes and more spending will eventually bankrupt our nation. Her support for wars and conflicts not in our interest will bleed the best of our youth. This is an election with dire consequences. Donald Trump is no saint, Latter Day or otherwise, but he loves America, he respects the rights of Christians, he has vowed to appoint judges who will protect life, the rights of churches, the rights of gun owners and our Constitution as it was written. It's OK to vote for Donald Trump. Read Dennis Prager's excellent article ‘In Defense of Pro-Trump Christians,’ and then join the millions of other Christians who will be voting Trump to save our country from the terrible alternative. Most of the Mormons I know are voting Trump but you can and should be more vocal about it. You need to let your friends and neighbors know that it's OK. You need to encourage the less likely voters to go the polls and you need to keep them from the conman. The Truth About Evan McMullin – And Why I Am So Disappointed in My Mormon Friends For Falling For This Edited October 23, 2016 by BCSpace 2
BCSpace Posted October 23, 2016 Posted October 23, 2016 On 10/22/2016 at 3:59 PM, VideoGameJunkie said: I'm voting for Evan McMullin. I want to see a 3rd party candidate win a state and being Mormon with morals adds to that. I would argue that voting for McMullin is casting those morals aside: https://www.facebook.com/DSouzaDinesh/videos/1513367282023255/
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