Utah voting analyzed by activity rates

[BCSpace]

Quote

1. Losing Utah does nothing to gain Hilary the Presidency.  The idea that McMullin is running to help Clinton is silly.

False on both counts.

1. 6 electoral votes is still 6 electoral votes.  Despite the fact that Trump is tied or up against Hillary nationally in the more respectable polls (and hence if you value LDS principles you should ride that horse), it's not unreasonable to see an electoral map where Hillary has 262, Trump has 170, and there are 106 toss ups. Losing Utah, makes the path to a Trump win that much harder.

2. Look at who is supporting McMullin.  All the establishment GOPer's who've gone to Hillary (essentially the ones who agree with Obama's open borders policy) and even Kaine gave a shout out.

[BCSpace]

On 10/22/2016 at 0:03 AM, The Nehor said:

A long angry article about how not voting for Trump makes you a gullible weak-minded dupe.

The author then rambles on about fraud in Utah for some reason which she never follows up on and then ends with an impassioned plea to vote Trump because he respects the rights of Christians and will not appoint evil Supreme Court Justices.

His argument is that not voting for Trump may mean Trump will not win. Well, DUH. That is why there are voting for someone else. They do not want to support Trump because they do not want him to win. On a practical level you have to have a majority of the electoral votes to win so if Mcmullin wins Utah then whoever got the absolute majority will still win. In the unlikely event Utah's defection means no one gets that majority the Presidency gets thrown to the House of Representatives (and the VP pick goes to the Senate). The only real way this can help Clinton win is if she wins Utah (and needs it). If that were the case and Mcmullin has a good chance of winning if people do not split between Trump and Mcmullin then the nest strategy for Trump is for the Trump campaign to encourage everyone to vote for Mcmullin so the vote is not diluted and Clinton will not win.

Really this is just sour grapes masquerading as concern for mythical larger implications which are unlikely to matter. Plus the author is an insulting jerk who buys into the mythical struggle the Tea Party and Right-Wing talk radio try to sell.

A quote from the article

"Crony Capitalist Spoiler. No one in the world including Evan McMullin believes Evan McMullin is going to be elected President. What the corrupted Republican establishment and the Clinton campaign hope is that he will keep Donald Trump from getting to 270 electoral votes and thus guarantee a Hillary presidency."

So she thinks it is news to everyone that McMullin is not going to win the election? Oh, and the whole thing is a conspiracy of course. Now the Republicans are all active Clinton supporters? Well, Staci, maybe next time Republicans shouldn't be total morons and should avoid selecting a reprehensible moron with the political instincts and nuanced political understanding of a rampaging bull in a china shop as their candidate. Hopefully lesson learned for 2020. Clinton is unliked. If we Republicans had used that keen long-range strategic thinking you suggested a little more we would have realized that pretty much any other candidate would have had a better chance and probably would have won with ease against Clinton. Don't blame Mormons because the Republican base is filled with idiots who made a terrible choice. Many of us do not want to support your idiocy. If we can hold not voting for idiots over your head to make you not make an idiotic choice in 2020 then I consider a vote for McMullin an excellent vote.

McMullin 2020!

You couldn't be more wrong.  There was no GOP candidate better able to beat Hillary than Trump.  None of them polled better against her than Trump.  Most of them betrayed us, some during the primaries when they went on record as supporting Obama's open borders policy. 

I voted for Cruz, but I see now that only Trump has a fighting chance against Hillary.  Consider how close he is now without the support of the party.  You are throwing away the best chance to get a a government that most closely resembles what most LDS want (assuming you throw away your MSM views on what you think Trump's policy will be).

Trump is the BEST candidate we've had since Reagan.  He's even reached out to minorities like no GOP candidate has and has generate success among them like no recent GOP candidate has. He's proven willing to stand up and fight whereas most GOP candidates lose nobly and every GOP candidate this time with a reasonable shot would have lost nobly.

The ONLY explanation for your view point is that you stand for surrender.  Do you think that after Hillary is in office, we can go back to work, to school, to church, and these people who you will have helped put in office will leave us alone?  Think again my friend and think hard about the choices you're making and the direction of your influence. Morality and consequences go together and cannot be separated.

NO ONE is going to hear the intended message of the McMullin voter.  If Hillary wins, it is over because of judges and there will be NO place in government for your values to take root. The message then will be, who were these Mormons in Utah who gave up their principles and sacrificed us to the ravenous gods of the Left?

Edited October 23, 2016 by BCSpace

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, BCSpace said:

False on both counts.

1. 6 electoral votes is still 6 electoral votes.  Despite the fact that Trump is tied or up against Hillary nationally in the more respectable polls (and hence if you value LDS principles you should ride that horse), it's not unreasonable to see an electoral map where Hillary has 262, Trump has 170, and there are 106 toss ups. Losing Utah, makes the path to a Trump win that much harder.

2. Look at who is supporting McMullin.  All the establishment GOPer's who've gone to Hillary (essentially the ones who agree with Obama's open borders policy) and even Kaine gave a shout out.

1. The more respectable polls? Look who is drinking the kool-aid. Losing Utah does nothing. All the electoral votes will be awarded to someone. If Hillary has enough without Utah then she would have won anyways. If Trump has enough to win without Utah he wins anyways. If, by some chance, Utah splits the vote entirely and neither gets a majority without Utah then it goes to Congress.

As to principles.....yeah. I am glad I am not so drunk with political idolatry that I am willing to support someone who brags about predatory sexual behavior. Alma the Younger taught Corianton that his sins were close to murder and we have no reason to believe Corianton's sins were that predatory. Trump is mired in sexual abuse claims and, contrary to what some spin doctors try to say, he has been mired in it for a long time and there are outstanding allegations from all the way back in the 90s. This just brought out more. So you are suggesting LDS should support the next worst sinner to a murderer because you think he has good ideas about the national debt, will save you a couple bucks in taxes, and possibly imagine the Mongols have reincarnated as Mexican and we should try Hadrian's failed approach to the barbarians at the gates?

5 hours ago, BCSpace said:

You couldn't be more wrong.  There was no GOP candidate better able to beat Hillary than Trump.  None of them polled better against her than Trump.  Most of them betrayed us, some during the primaries when they went on record as supporting Obama's open borders policy. 

If Trump wasn't an idiot that might have been true but he kept talking. I would guess any Republican candidate from the Primaries would now be polling better because they are not daily disgusting more and more people.

5 hours ago, BCSpace said:

I voted for Cruz, but I see now that only Trump has a fighting chance against Hillary.  Consider how close he is now without the support of the party.  You are throwing away the best chance to get a a government that most closely resembles what most LDS want (assuming you throw away your MSM views on what you think Trump's policy will be).

I don't want a Trump government. I don't want him anywhere near power. I do not want his vengeful thin-skinned prima donna mentality anywhere near access to the most powerful military on Earth. I have no idea if Trump's views match 'LDS views' (again the suggestion that all LDS agree is odd) but I do know I do not trust him anywhere near power. I don't like Clinton or really trust her much but I trust her more then him.

Also, I can't help picturing you as a Jaredity: "We have to fight with Coriantumr. He is the best chance at bringing down Shiz. We have to throw everything we have behind him because the alternative is worse."

5 hours ago, BCSpace said:

Trump is the BEST candidate we've had since Reagan.  He's even reached out to minorities like no GOP candidate has and has generate success among them like no recent GOP candidate has. He's proven willing to stand up and fight whereas most GOP candidates lose nobly and every GOP candidate this time with a reasonable shot would have lost nobly.

By reaching out you mean insulted them all by imagining that all of them live in inner cities deluged in blood every day? The man is so out of touch it is ridiculous. What polls are you reading that suggest that his outreach is working? Stein and Johnson are polling better amongst minorities. And his calls for 'monitors' to monitor inner city polling places are not making him any friends either. Are you saying that because a black guy went to one of his rallies?

Trump is better then both Bushs? Better then Romney? Better then McCain? That is insane.

5 hours ago, BCSpace said:

The ONLY explanation for your view point is that you stand for surrender.  Do you think that after Hillary is in office, we can go back to work, to school, to church, and these people who you will have helped put in office will leave us alone?  Think again my friend and think hard about the choices you're making and the direction of your influence. Morality and consequences go together and cannot be separated.

Oh, shut up. This kind of moral doomsaying pops up amongst your ilk in every election. I got the same warning when Bill Clinton was running, when Obama was running, and now when Hillary is running. What convinces you this apocalyptic scenario will somehow ruin our lives and destroy everything we ever loved? You and others like you have cried wolf over and over again. It is time to give up the facile demagoguery this tack assumes. It is the politics of hate. A belief in some apocalyptic struggle between right and wrong every election allows people to abdicate basic civility and gives license to indulge your darker impulses because it is on the side of right. So we have to side with someone most of us would beat off with a stick if he came near a girl or woman we loved because that is the way the game is played? I am not playing that game. You shouldn't either.

5 hours ago, BCSpace said:

NO ONE is going to hear the intended message of the McMullin voter.  If Hillary wins, it is over because of judges and there will be NO place in government for your values to take root. The message then will be, who were these Mormons in Utah who gave up their principles and sacrificed us to the ravenous gods of the Left?

I will. The Republican party will. As to it being over.....how do you function when you believe this? That "THE LEFT" is some vast conspiracy bent on destroying you? We have had bad politicians before. We have had Supreme Courts before. We got through it. When did America become a nation of cowards? I look at people willing to lock up possibly innocent people indefinitely because they 'might be terrorists'. I look at us staring across our southern border filled with yearning masses wanting to be free and desperate refugees wanting to keep them out in the name of safety. What the hell are we so afraid of? Yes, there are risks. There may be problems and even catastrophes but if we truly have principles we should realize that having principles entails taking risks.

Who sacrificed their principles? The Religious Right for picking the antithesis of everything they claim to hold dear or Mormons for actually holding dear what they claim to hold dear?  

And if, and I do not believe for a second that this is the end or a prelude to it, and if Hillary takes over and establishes a totalitarian regime then LDS will do what we always do. We will endure. We will stay true to our gospel message (which has nothing to do with tax policy or the national debt) and God will endow us with power from on high and maybe we will flee to the wilderness again and build up a Holy City to our God. The idea that the most important moral battles of our age take place in voting booths is laughable and conceited and even lazy.

[The Nehor]

On a lighter note how has this thread not been shut down yet? Mods must be having a good weekend. Hope you enjoyed your weekend mods. You guys do a great job.

[Calm]

Maybe they loosened up this close to the election, but now it is getting into judging righteousness, I expect it will be closed by the time I get up in the morning.

2 more weeks?  Sigh...

Edited October 24, 2016 by Calm

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

Maybe they loosened up this close to the election, but now it is getting into judging righteousness, I expect it will be closed by the time I get up in the morning.

2 more weeks?  Sigh...

Yeah, I am ready for my mandatory gay marriage now. Why do I have to wait two weeks?

[bluebell]

14 hours ago, BCSpace said:

NO ONE is going to hear the intended message of the McMullin voter. 

Since most McMullin voters will probably be republicans, I think their intended message is "I refuse to vote for an immoral, evil man because my conscience won't let me."  Reasonable, good people can disagree with them, and Trump may still get elected, but their intended message would still be heard.

 

[BlueDreams]

15 hours ago, BCSpace said:

Trump is the BEST candidate we've had since Reagan.  He's even reached out to minorities like no GOP candidate has and has generate success among them like no recent GOP candidate has. He's proven willing to stand up and fight whereas most GOP candidates lose nobly and every GOP candidate this time with a reasonable shot would have lost nobly.

Hahahahahahahaha.

You so funny.

Here is my reaction to trump in order to what he's said about minorities starting soon after into the escalator ride down into the pre-apocalypse.

Did he just call my grandma a drug dealer? and my friends rapists? This won't last

It lasted....starts getting crazy republican voters

I didn't know there were so many latent racists in the world who can just shrug or agree to the crazy racist crap spewing from his mouth.

We have some serious short term memory problems in this country. Half of this sounds like Japanese concentration camps or Nazi regime ideas (such as monitoring muslims).

Holy crap, he's demonizing whole swaths of people to plug into he fear/bigot vote and it's working! - starts to get scared

He just got a nod from a white nationalist leader and he just gave the weakest denunciation I've ever heard. He basically didn't denounce it. - starts to get depressed

Here he goes again, getting away with the republican vote because he hasn't overtly said this crap about blacks and jews but about brown folk and muslims. Changing the target doesn't make this ok. - starts pondering all the ways we justify bigotry and maintain an age old problem in humanity

Make America great again is definitely starting to make me nervous as a slogan. As a minority, America wasn't all that great even a few decades back. So no thank you.

Oh he's trying to pander to the black vote. Gosh he looks awkward. His words are awkward. Last time I checked my dad and step-mom live in a suburban neighborhood and send their kids to a private school. He's really tapped into something...his own stereotypes.  Meanwhile he's not actually talking black people's concerns, such as with policing...in fact he's saying the opposite. Not winning nothing here.

Oh, there he goes again insulting a gold star family who are muslim. Oh happy day.

His sexism is like a never ending well of creepy water. I hope to never meet him and am glad I'm not full white. Very obviously not his type, but still....don't want to take chances with that. Not feeling up to a tic tac moment with an old geezer. - starts realizing how little people understand the definition of sexual assault while having to tell a number of my clients they had been, and get's just that much more depressed about the American people.

Viscerally bad mouths trump every second I've got. The idea of him winning makes me want to vomit and my stomach twist. His boards and bumper stickers have about the same effect as when I see someone with a confederate flag. It's not at Nazi flag level, but the thought that they "get me" couldn't be less true. Minority tone-deaf would be the nicest thing I could say about how Trump "reaches out." I have nightmare fantasies of me staying in the country after he's elected, a dictatorship sprouting, and me running some underground safety havens for minorities. I'm not one who runs for paranoia, conspiracy, or doomsday scenerios....so it's something when I realize I have flashes of that going on somewhere in the back of my brain near the flight/fight response.
 

Quote

 

The ONLY explanation for your view point is that you stand for surrender.  Do you think that after Hillary is in office, we can go back to work, to school, to church, and these people who you will have helped put in office will leave us alone?  Think again my friend and think hard about the choices you're making and the direction of your influence. Morality and consequences go together and cannot be separated.

NO ONE is going to hear the intended message of the McMullin voter.  If Hillary wins, it is over because of judges and there will be NO place in government for your values to take root. The message then will be, who were these Mormons in Utah who gave up their principles and sacrificed us to the ravenous gods of the Left?

 

This was for Nehor. But considering I'm already left leaning, I'll be fine. And yes, I think in most ways I'll go back to normal and not worry about Clinton offending half the world and covering her tracks by threatening to push a button glowing atomically red and spiraling us into another world war while finding underprotected minority scape-goats like Mexicans, undocumented immigrants, and muslims to maintain the flames of fear and xenophobia. All while suing and punishing anyone who happens to not like her. Clinton may not rep a number of my values as an active mormon but Trump easily represents the antithesis of some of my personal value's, experiences, and sense of personal safety. But I don't see how voting for a nobody politically, such as McMullin, who appears to at the very least hold some similar values for my more conservative LDS brothers and sisters is bad. It states, very clearly, that LDS will not toe the line just because it's the popular thing to do. And it may help better shape other republican elections to better represent their values. Out of this election cycle, I have been proud of my utahn LDS for not being sucked into the Crazy running the republican show right now and for living up to the values that we both profess for human dignity, protection of women, and less angry/fear-based rhetoric..

 

With luv,

BD  

Edited October 24, 2016 by BlueDreams

[Danzo]

17 hours ago, BCSpace said:

I would simply ask, do you honestly believe we can recover in our lifetimes if Hillary picks the judges and buys millions of Leftwing votes through amnestying millions of illegal aliens?

 

Allow millions of americans self government?

You make a good case for Hillary.

[ERayR]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

Since most McMullin voters will probably be republicans, I think their intended message is "I refuse to vote for an immoral, evil man because my conscience won't let me."Instead I will vote for an immoral, evil woman.  Reasonable, good people can disagree with them, and Trump may still get elected, but their intended message would still be heard.

 

That should read.

[Calm]

1 minute ago, ERayR said:

That should read.

[Calm]

ERayR, it isn't appropriate, imo, to alter someone's quote, a quote should accurately portray what someone has said.  I don't know if it is against board rules as well.  I think it is likely because mods have dinged people for doing it, but I am sure there is no need to appeal to the board guidelines as on looking at it again you will see the kindness in restoring the original quote and showing it is your words and not hers by posting your alteration in your portion of the post.  

[thesometimesaint]

Sexual assault while illegal, disgusting, and shameful are the least repugnant of Trumps repugnant views.

[bluebell]

33 minutes ago, ERayR said:

That should read.

Most republicans would never vote for Hillary, so that's why I worded it the way I did.  

[Gray]

20 hours ago, BCSpace said:

False on both counts.

1. 6 electoral votes is still 6 electoral votes.  Despite the fact that Trump is tied or up against Hillary nationally in the more respectable polls (and hence if you value LDS principles you should ride that horse), it's not unreasonable to see an electoral map where Hillary has 262, Trump has 170, and there are 106 toss ups. Losing Utah, makes the path to a Trump win that much harder.

2. Look at who is supporting McMullin.  All the establishment GOPer's who've gone to Hillary (essentially the ones who agree with Obama's open borders policy) and even Kaine gave a shout out.

Trump doesn't have a serious chance of winning regardless of how Utah votes.

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2016/president/us/general_election_trump_vs_clinton-5491.html