Scott Lloyd Posted October 2, 2016 Posted October 2, 2016 Elder M. Russell Ballard, one of my favorite people, in his conference sermon is returning to the "Old Ship Zion" theme. Good counsel, both for those who are faltering in the faith and for the rest of us who are commanded to embrace them.
Popular Post Tacenda Posted October 2, 2016 Popular Post Posted October 2, 2016 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Elder M. Russell Ballard, one of my favorite people, in his conference sermon is returning to the "Old Ship Zion" theme. Good counsel, both for those who are faltering in the faith and for the rest of us who are commanded to embrace them. I liked that he spoke about people like myself. And we aren't hidden in a closet somewhere. I believe beforehand someone like me might have been put in a different category. A category, of someone that wants to sin, or someone that doesn't want to put their shoulder to the wheel, or someone that can't endure to the end. I still have issues with the thought that I must believe Joseph Smith got it right, no matter what. Or that our church is the only way to God and Jesus. Still struggling...as usual. But trying to weed through all the information. Edited October 2, 2016 by Tacenda 10
Popular Post SteveO Posted October 2, 2016 Popular Post Posted October 2, 2016 I had the feeling that the skeptics aren't going to like some of his statements... --Just because something seems unexplainable to answer in this life, does not mean it's unexplainable. Among others. Elder Ballard always does a good blunt, straight talking, always enjoy him. 8
Popular Post bluebell Posted October 2, 2016 Popular Post Posted October 2, 2016 I like how he reminds us that further light and knowledge will be coming in the future and that the things which cause consternation right now might be resolved in the future. 9
SteveO Posted October 2, 2016 Posted October 2, 2016 2 minutes ago, bluebell said: I like how he reminds us that further light and knowledge will be coming in the future and that the things which cause consternation right now might be resolved in the future. No, not "might be resolved", I thought he promised that they eventually "would be" to those who continually seek after it? 3
bluebell Posted October 2, 2016 Posted October 2, 2016 46 minutes ago, SteveO said: No, not "might be resolved", I thought he promised that they eventually "would be" to those who continually seek after it? Could be. I don't remember his exact wording.
CV75 Posted October 2, 2016 Posted October 2, 2016 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: I liked that he spoke about people like myself. And we aren't hidden in a closet somewhere. I believe beforehand someone like me might have been put in a different category. A category, of someone that wants to sin, or someone that doesn't want to put their shoulder to the wheel, or someone that can't endure to the end. Of course we all want to sin, we all don't want to sacrifice and work, and we are all unable to endure, so let's admit it and embrace the category of "repentant saints" instead...! We are all faced with "TMI" --valid or not -- so you're certainly not alone there, either. Admittedly I’m biased, but I hear just one theme (with two appendages!) in just about every talk that helps me deal with the informational distractions: that Jesus Christ died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; that the Restoration is an appendage to that; and, that we can get nearer to God by abiding by the precepts of the Book of Mormon (another appendage) than by any other book. There are far more appendages than exceptions, and there is too much basic goodness to get sidelined by an exception, whether it is real or manufactured. Hang in there! 2
theplains Posted October 2, 2016 Posted October 2, 2016 Elder Ballard (in the article published on Deseret News) urged members, "Never abandon the great truths revealed through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Think about the times when the Holy Ghost has born witness to you of eternal truth." Some believe he taught one of the greatest lies when he taught Heavenly Father was once a man who became a God and that He is not from everlasting to everlasting." Regards, Jim 1
Tacenda Posted October 2, 2016 Posted October 2, 2016 1 hour ago, theplains said: Elder Ballard (in the article published on Deseret News) urged members, "Never abandon the great truths revealed through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Think about the times when the Holy Ghost has born witness to you of eternal truth." Some believe he taught one of the greatest lies when he taught Heavenly Father was once a man who became a God and that He is not from everlasting to everlasting." Regards, Jim I remember reading or hearing that there is something in the Bible that alludes to God once being a man. Have you heard of that?
Five Solas Posted October 2, 2016 Posted October 2, 2016 28 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I remember reading or hearing that there is something in the Bible that alludes to God once being a man. Have you heard of that? No. Although it's certainly true the Bible's writers used anthropormorphism to talk about God, referring to his "face" (Leviticus 20:6), his "hands" (Isaiah 23:11), his "wings" (Psalm 91:40). Okay, technically that last one isn't an example of anthropormorphism, but it certainly evokes a powerful image! And no, I don't think God really has wings, etc. God is spirit (John 4:24). --Erik
Scott Lloyd Posted October 2, 2016 Author Posted October 2, 2016 1 hour ago, theplains said: Elder Ballard (in the article published on Deseret News) urged members, "Never abandon the great truths revealed through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Think about the times when the Holy Ghost has born witness to you of eternal truth." Some believe he taught one of the greatest lies when he taught Heavenly Father was once a man who became a God and that He is not from everlasting to everlasting." Regards, Jim Do you believe that Jesus Christ is God? 3
Popular Post bluebell Posted October 3, 2016 Popular Post Posted October 3, 2016 2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Do you believe that Jesus Christ is God? And wasn't it Jesus who claimed that He did nothing but what He saw His Father in Heaven do? 5
Avatar4321 Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 6 hours ago, SteveO said: I had the feeling that the skeptics aren't going to like some of his statements... --Just because something seems unexplainable to answer in this life, does not mean it's unexplainable. Among others. Elder Ballard always does a good blunt, straight talking, always enjoy him. when do they like statements of truth from the Twelve?
Avatar4321 Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 5 hours ago, Rivers said: He talks about the "Old Ship Zion" a lot. Well it's a pretty darn good ship 2
Avatar4321 Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 3 hours ago, Tacenda said: I remember reading or hearing that there is something in the Bible that alludes to God once being a man. Have you heard of that? I have. It's the new testament. The entire book testifies that God became a man and atoned for our sins 2
Avatar4321 Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 3 hours ago, Five Solas said: No. Although it's certainly true the Bible's writers used anthropormorphism to talk about God, referring to his "face" (Leviticus 20:6), his "hands" (Isaiah 23:11), his "wings" (Psalm 91:40). Okay, technically that last one isn't an example of anthropormorphism, but it certainly evokes a powerful image! And no, I don't think God really has wings, etc. God is spirit (John 4:24). --Erik So you reject the divinity of Christ? I didn't expect that but I can testify to you that He is indeed God and that He did indeed become a man. 2
CV75 Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 4 hours ago, theplains said: Elder Ballard (in the article published on Deseret News) urged members, "Never abandon the great truths revealed through the Prophet Joseph Smith. Think about the times when the Holy Ghost has born witness to you of eternal truth." Some believe he taught one of the greatest lies when he taught Heavenly Father was once a man who became a God and that He is not from everlasting to everlasting." Regards, Jim What does "some believe" have to do with anything? Read it veeeeerrrrrrry carefully: "Never abandon the great truths..." 2
Five Solas Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 5 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: So you reject the divinity of Christ? I didn't expect that but I can testify to you that He is indeed God and that He did indeed become a man. While not ceasing to be God. It's what theologians call the Hypostatic Union. But that's a rather different context than what theplains & Tacenda were discussing. And certainly not what Joseph Smith described in the King Follett Sermon (that Jim was referring to). --Erik
Johnnie Cake Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 The entire premise of Ballard talk was just plan silly...where will we go? Any where we want...no restriction, no conditions, no second guessing, no guilt, no loss, no micro management, no regrets, no looking back....just satisfaction in my choice to leave
SteveO Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 10 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: The entire premise of Ballard talk was just plan silly...where will we go? Any where we want...no restriction, no conditions, no second guessing, no guilt, no loss, no micro management, no regrets, no looking back....just satisfaction in my choice to leave Oh? Looks like you haven't entirely left or have ceased to look back...maybe you're second guessing? 1
Avatar4321 Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Five Solas said: While not ceasing to be God. It's what theologians call the Hypostatic Union. But that's a rather different context than what theplains & Tacenda were discussing. And certainly not what Joseph Smith described in the King Follett Sermon (that Jim was referring to). --Erik So it's okay for you to believe God was once a man, but not for us to.
bluebell Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 17 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: The entire premise of Ballard talk was just plan silly...where will we go? Any where we want...no restriction, no conditions, no second guessing, no guilt, no loss, no micro management, no regrets, no looking back....just satisfaction in my choice to leave If you believed that a church had the authority of God and the doctrine of truth, and you want that, the choice to leave isn't a silly thing. It's a really big deal.
rodheadlee Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 37 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: The entire premise of Ballard talk was just plan silly...where will we go? Any where we want...no restriction, no conditions, no second guessing, no guilt, no loss, no micro management, no regrets, no looking back....just satisfaction in my choice to leave No looking back? So why are you here? 2
thesometimesaint Posted October 3, 2016 Posted October 3, 2016 11 hours ago, Tacenda said: I liked that he spoke about people like myself. And we aren't hidden in a closet somewhere. I believe beforehand someone like me might have been put in a different category. A category, of someone that wants to sin, or someone that doesn't want to put their shoulder to the wheel, or someone that can't endure to the end. I still have issues with the thought that I must believe Joseph Smith got it right, no matter what. Or that our church is the only way to God and Jesus. Still struggling...as usual. But trying to weed through all the information. If we didn't want to sin there would be no motivation to do it.
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