Isaiah 64: 6

[Rain]

On this thread Tacenda brought up this:

Quote

Well dummy me, raises my hand and asks her about the scripture that works, is like a filthy rag.

Isaiah 64:6New International Version (NIV)

6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
    and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
    and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

Waveslider responded with this:

Quote

It's not unlike what Mosiah had to say:
"20  I say unto you, my brethren, that if you should render all the thanks and praise which your whole soul has power to possess, to that God who has created you, and has kept and preserved you, and has caused that ye should rejoice, and has granted that ye should live in peace one with another—
21  I say unto you that if ye should serve him who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another—I say, if ye should serve him with all your whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants."
Mosiah 2:20-21

We will never be profitable servants. This isn't the reason we are to keep the commandments. We are to keep them because we love God and our Savior:
"If ye love me, keep my commandments."
John 14:15

I thought it deserved it's own thread.  Does anyone have any responses to this?  

[Duncan]

Just now, Rain said:

On this thread Tacenda brought up this:

Waveslider responded with this:

I thought it deserved it's own thread.  Does anyone have any responses to this?  

works are necessary but they are insufficient to save us, we are saved through Christ's merits, not our own

[JLHPROF]

Salvation is a free gift for all who are willing to accept it.
What kind of "work" might be involved in our acceptance of the gift is where the real debate lies.

Works are not the deciding factor in salvation, but they are the deciding factor in what our saved condition will be and who we will be with.

Simple.

[bluebell]

Another interest aspect of the gospel compared to what is taught in the Isaiah verses is that the bible explicitly states (many times) that we will be judged by our works. 

 

[Tacenda]

 

Thanks Rain, for more discussion on this scripture. I now understand more about the filthy rags scripture. I believe that God was sick of people showing good works, while at the same time doing evil or people who adore their good works, or the work of their hands. Or those in Bible times that sacrificed all the poor animals to make up for their wickedness. Maybe not giving enough credit where credit is due...to God. But I'm a little late to the party as usual. 

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/ministry-god-does-not-view-your-labors-as-filthy-rags

Quote from the above link's article, is cute:

"He is like a Father who sees the painting his 5-year old brought home from school. He doesn’t pour scorn on the effort because it is not a Rembrandt. Instead, he takes the painting, with all its flaws, and sticks it on the refrigerator for all to see.

Indeed, it is this very hope—that God might be pleased with our labors—that Jesus lays out as a motive for us. For our hope is that one day we might hear, “Well done, good and faithful servant” (Matt. 25:23)."

Edited September 2, 2016 by Tacenda

[thesometimesaint]

20 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

 

Thanks Rain, for more discussion on this scripture. I now understand more about the filthy rags scripture. I believe that God was sick of people showing good works, while at the same time doing evil or people who adore their good works, or the work of their hands. Or those in Bible times that sacrificed all the poor animals to make up for their wickedness. Maybe not giving enough credit where credit is due..God. But I'm a little late to the party as usual. 

I think God was a little more than tired of people claiming good works, but doing works of wickedness. The Scapegoat has a long and serious history in Christianity as well. He alone atoned for the sins of the world.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

I think God was a little more than tired of people claiming good works, but doing works of wickedness. The Scapegoat has a long and serious history in Christianity as well. He alone atoned for the sins of the world.

I suspect he is tired of us falling off both sides of this tightrope and then arguing about which side is better to fall off of.

[thesometimesaint]

On 9/1/2016 at 11:18 PM, The Nehor said:

I suspect he is tired of us falling off both sides of this tightrope and then arguing about which side is better to fall off of.

Could's be. Which is why I'm thankful for repentance.

[rodheadlee]

On 9/1/2016 at 7:11 PM, Rain said:

On this thread Tacenda brought up this:

Well dummy me, raises my hand and asks her about the scripture that works, is like a filthy rag.

Isaiah 64:6New International Version (NIV)

6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
    and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
    and like the wind our sins sweep us away.

I believe our works are like filthy rags when we fell compelled to do them, or when we do them for the wrong reasons. If we pay our tithes and resent it or if we give money to a street person and we don't give it with love in our hearts these gifts are not acceptable. If we go to church meetings and resent it, whatever we do, if we don't do it because we love God or love our neighbor or because we fear disrupting the family or losing our job, If we do them to appear righteous these gifts are as filthy rags.

[UtahTexan]

ah...the works vs faith.

I look at it like this:  Salvation is a gift.......it is free....but we still need our works.

It is like getting a bike for Christmas.  The bike is free.  But the only way to enjoy the free gift is to assemble it (works).

[mfbukowski]

We are saved by GRACE after all we can do

And what we can do is still just filthy rags- but its all we can do

[mnn727]

May I remind you that "filthy rags" are the ones that got used to wipe the filth away.

I'm proud to be a 'filthy rag' in Gods arsenal. It means he's using my to help 'clean the world up'

Edited September 4, 2016 by mnn727

[Guest]

The words of in Isaiah and Mosiah are to remind us that dispite all our efforts we still need a Savior, we still need Grace. It also reminds us that God ways are higher than our ways, his righteousness compared to our own is no comparison to our own. But none of the scriptures are an excuse to not do our best, but do all that we can, and the best we can. As Jesus Christ taught; "Be Ye therefore perfect, even as I and your Father in Heaven are perfect". 

[Bernard Gui]

Salvation is from Death, Hell, and the Devil. It is free.

Exaltation is living in God's presence and over aeons of time evolving into a being like Him. It is conditional on repentance,

but founded on grace.

 

2 Nephi 9

 

Quote

 

19 O the greatness of the mercy of our God, the Holy One of Israel! For he delivereth his saints from that awful monster the devil, and death, and hell, and that lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment. 20 O how great the holiness of our God! For he knowethall things, and there is not anything save he knows it. 21 And he cometh into the world that he may save all men if they will hearken unto his voice; for behold, he suffereth the pains of all men, yea, the pains of every living creature, both men, women, and children, who belong to the family of Adam. 22 And he suffereth this that the resurrection might pass upon all men, that all might stand before him at the great and judgment day.

23 And he commandeth all men that they must repent, and be baptized in his name, having perfect faith in the Holy One of Israel, or they cannot be saved in the kingdom of God.24 And if they will not repent and believe in his name, and be baptized in his name, and endure to the end, they must be damned; for the Lord God, the Holy One of Israel, has spoken it.25 Wherefore, he has given a law; and where there is nolaw given there is no punishment; and where there is no punishment there is no condemnation; and where there is no condemnation the mercies of the Holy One of Israel have claim upon them, because of the atonement; for they are delivered by the power of him.26 For the atonement satisfieth the demands of his justiceupon all those who have not the law given to them, that they are delivered from that awful monster, death and hell, and the devil, and the lake of fire and brimstone, which is endless torment; and they are restored to that God who gave them breath, which is the Holy One of Israel.

27 But wo unto him that has the law given, yea, that has all the commandments of God, like unto us, and that transgresseth them, and that wasteth the days of his probation, for awful is his state!

 

 

[Jeanne]

On 9/1/2016 at 9:37 PM, Tacenda said:

 

Thanks Rain, for more discussion on this scripture. I now understand more about the filthy rags scripture. I believe that God was sick of people showing good works, while at the same time doing evil or people who adore their good works, or the work of their hands. Or those in Bible times that sacrificed all the poor animals to make up for their wickedness. Maybe not giving enough credit where credit is due...to God. But I'm a little late to the party as usual. 

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/ministry-god-does-not-view-your-labors-as-filthy-rags

Quote from the above link's article, is cute:

"He is like a Father who sees the painting his 5-year old brought home from school. He doesn’t pour scorn on the effort because it is not a Rembrandt. Instead, he takes the painting, with all its flaws, and sticks it on the refrigerator for all to see.

Indeed, it is this very hope—that God might be pleased with our labors—that Jesus lays out as a motive for us. For our hope is that one day we might hear, “Well done, good and faithful servant” (Matt. 25:23)."

This quote example is beautiful.  I have always thought that if one would add great humility to their good works..the evils are easier to repent of and/or more forgiving for the Father.

[Isaiah]

Avraham Gileadi is THE authority on Isaiah.
I believe Gileadi fulfills the prophecy in the B of M that in the latter days the words of Isaiah would be made plain unto the understanding of men!

Everyone should understand Isaiah.

Go to http://www.isaiahexplained.com/
 
choose Chapter 1, then click on Apocalyptic Commentary
or also listen to it (sound bar on the right) Analytical Commentary.
it's very easy.

----------------

Isaiah 64:5,6

5 But you wound those of us who joyfully perform righteousness, who remember you by following your ways— ^athat in them we might ever be saved.^a Alas, you were roused to anger when we sinned,

6 and now we have altogether become as those defiled,the sum of our righteousness as a menstruous rag.We are decaying like leaves, all of us;our sins, like a wind, sweep us away.

commentary below

Although in their newly repentant state this category of Jehovah’s people again “performs righteousness” and “remembers” Jehovah, for a long time they performed wickedness and forgot him. Not qualifying to participate in the new exodus to Zion, they continue to expiate their iniquities and to endure the curses that accrued. Didn’t Jehovah’s servant warn them that they had forgotten their God, their salvation, and not remembered the Rock, their fortress (Isaiah 17:10)? Didn’t he exhort them to forsake their corrupt ways and thoughts and return to Jehovah so he would pardon them (Isaiah 55:7)?

Realizing their error, however, they learned sufficiently from the servant’s example to emulate his righteousness. Although subject to Jehovah’s anger—the king of Assyria/Babylon (Isaiah 10:5)—they receive a second chance to overcome the chaotic consequences of their actions. Although still under a curse, Jehovah’s “ways” are becoming their ways (Isaiah 55:8) as they wade through their descent phase to recovery. Notwithstanding their transgressions weakened them almost irreversibly—their dysfunctional patterns being difficult to overcome—they are set on a return path (Isaiah 10:20-22).

 

[Isaiah]

WHY DID THE LORD HIMSELF SAY

"for great are the words of Isaiah" and
gave us a commandment that we search them diligently.
Because they are speaking about us -
the (Gentiles - especially the church today)

 3 Nephi 23:1- 4
1 "And now, behold, I say unto you,
that ye ought to search these things.
Yea, a commandment I give unto
you that ye search these things diligently;
for great are the words of Isaiah."

 2 "For surely he spake as touching all things
concerning my people which are of the house of Israel;
therefore it must needs be that he must speak
also to the Gentiles."
( Gentiles are us, members, and all of us here today in the U.S. )

 3 "And all things that he spake (have been and shall be),
even according to the words which he spake."

 4 "Therefore give heed to my words;
write the things which I have told you;
and according to the time and the will
of the Father they shall go forth unto the Gentiles."

3 Nephi 20:11
11 "Ye remember that I spake unto you,
and said that when the words of Isaiah
should be fulfilled—behold they are written,
ye have them before you, therefore search them-"
--------------------------------------------------------------

Isaiah has now been unsealed and brought
to light by the Lord for our understanding in these last days.

Isaiah 44:7
7 "Who predicts what happens as do I, and is the equal of me in
appointing a people from of old as types, foretelling things to come?

Isaiah uses what are called types from the past
to show the future.
What has happened before, will happen again.

ALL THE PROPHECIES OF ISAIAH PERTAIN TO US TODAY
All prophecies in Isaiah are prophecies of the last days.

Referring to our church and the sad condition we are in,
Isaiah begins his book speaking to us,
Ephraim, or the church today.

Isaiah 1:2-5
Description of modern Ephraim
(addressing our church he calls Israel)

2 Hear, O heavens! Give heed, O earth!
Jehovah has spoken:I have reared sons,
brought them up,but they have revolted against me.
3 The ox knows its owner,the *** its master’s stall,
but Israel does not know;my people are insensible.
4 Alas, a nation astray,a people weighed down by sin,
the offspring of wrongdoers,perverse children:
they have forsaken Jehovah,they have spurned
the Holy One of Israel,they have lapsed into APOSTASY.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Isaiah 24:5
5 "The earth lies polluted under its inhabitants:
they have transgressed the laws,
changed the ordinances, set at nought the ancient covenant."

explanation:
"Causing these curses is the wickedness of Jehovah’s people, who have altered his “ordinances” or “ritual” and perverted his “laws” or “doctrine” , thereby violating Jehovah’s covenant and rendering it void. Jehovah’s servant, who personifies Jehovah’s covenant (Isaiah 42:6; 49:8), they likewise set at nought (Isaiah 49:7; 50:5-11; 52:14)."

Isaiah 29:9,10  13,14
9 Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.

10 For the Lord hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.

13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.