Why will the Lamanites become a blessed people?

[Bernard Gui]

Quote

Jacob 3:6 And now, this commandment they observe to keep; wherefore, because of this observance, in keeping this commandment, the Lord God will not destroy them, but will be ^amerciful unto them; and one day they shall ^bbecome a blessed people.

What was the commandment the Lamanites kept that brought them this promise?

Quote

Jacob 3:5 Behold, the Lamanites your brethren, whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins, are more righteous than you; for they have not ^aforgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father—that they should have save it were ^bone wife, and ^cconcubines they should have none, and there should not be ^dwhoredoms committed among them.

They kept the law of chastity and as result God promised to remember them and brought them out of darkness or will make them a blessed people.

What are the Implications of this for us today? Just how important is the law of chastity? As our society moves deeper into rejecting the law, how serious is this rejection? What will be the consequences of this rejection? Is the current normalization of immoral behavior putting us at risk? If so, how will that be manifested? At what point does acceptance of immoral behavior put us at risk? What can result from this? What can be done to change the rush into immorality in the name of tolerance and acceptance? Is it past the hope of renewal? How would renewal take place?

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Edited August 11, 2016 by Nemesis
Thread bans

[CV75]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

What was the commandment the Lamanites kept that brought them this promise?

They kept the law of chastity and as result God promised to remember them and brought them out of darkness or will make them a blessed people.

What are the Implications of this for us today? Just how important is the law of chastity? As our society moves deeper into rejecting the law, how serious is this rejection? What will be the consequences of this rejection? Is the current normalization of immoral behavior putting us at risk? If so, how will that be manifested? At what point does acceptance of immoral behavior put us at risk? What can result from this? What can be done to change the rush into immorality in the name of tolerance and acceptance? Is it past the hope of renewal? How would renewal take place?

By observing each of the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel.

[HappyJackWagon]

Q- Did immoral behavior put the early church at risk? Did the early church follow Jacob 3:5?

A- Of course the church did not follow Jacob 3:5 and as a result faced great persecution and violence.

 

Q- The BoM was written primarily for the benefit of the Lamanites. Who are the modern day Lamanites?

A- No clue. But it seems clear they aren't all native American as once taught.

[Atheist Mormon]

4 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

What was the commandment the Lamanites kept that brought them this promise?

They kept the law of chastity and as result God promised to remember them and brought them out of darkness or will make them a blessed people.

What are the Implications of this for us today? Just how important is the law of chastity? As our society moves deeper into rejecting the law, how serious is this rejection? What will be the consequences of this rejection? Is the current normalization of immoral behavior putting us at risk? If so, how will that be manifested? At what point does acceptance of immoral behavior put us at risk? What can result from this? What can be done to change the rush into immorality in the name of tolerance and acceptance? Is it past the hope of renewal? How would renewal take place?

.

 

Why should anyone's chastity behavior put me at risk; People I've never seen in my life, why should I care what they do with their bodies. I presume you write this LDS stance against violation of chastity rule, my question is how and why are we going to change the behaviors of foreign cultures like Europeans or all Western civilizations where sexual promiscuity is individual's ow choice.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Why should anyone's chastity behavior put me at risk; People I've never seen in my life, why should I care what they do with their bodies. I presume you write this LDS stance against violation of chastity rule, my question is how and why are we going to change the behaviors of foreign cultures like Europeans or all Western civilizations where sexual promiscuity is individual's ow choice.

When people do things it influences other things. There are almost no entirely individualistic acts. It is naive to claim otherwise.

[rodheadlee]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Q- Did immoral behavior put the early church at risk? Did the early church follow Jacob 3:5?

A- Of course the church did not follow Jacob 3:5 and as a result faced great persecution and violence.

 

Q- The BoM was written primarily for the benefit of the Lamanites. Who are the modern day Lamanites?

A- No clue. But it seems clear they aren't all native American as once taught.

The answer to your 2nd Q would depend on where you place the boundaries of America.

[stemelbow]

6 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

What was the commandment the Lamanites kept that brought them this promise?

They kept the law of chastity and as result God promised to remember them and brought them out of darkness or will make them a blessed people.

What are the Implications of this for us today? Just how important is the law of chastity? As our society moves deeper into rejecting the law, how serious is this rejection? What will be the consequences of this rejection? Is the current normalization of immoral behavior putting us at risk? If so, how will that be manifested? At what point does acceptance of immoral behavior put us at risk? What can result from this? What can be done to change the rush into immorality in the name of tolerance and acceptance? Is it past the hope of renewal? How would renewal take place?

.

 

The promise is weird.  It's talking about Lamanites being chaste, if you will, at the time of Jacob and because of that the Lamanites will be blessed at some later date?  Whose to say they will remain chaste?  do they lose their blessing?  I can't really tell.  But I find it hard to believe that the people remain chaste throughout the course of the Book of Mormon.  I don't get blessing later generations or on the flip cursing later generations for the sins or non sins of the ancestors. 

[ksfisher]

20 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

The promise is weird.  It's talking about Lamanites being chaste, if you will, at the time of Jacob and because of that the Lamanites will be blessed at some later date?  Whose to say they will remain chaste?  do they lose their blessing?  I can't really tell.  But I find it hard to believe that the people remain chaste throughout the course of the Book of Mormon.  I don't get blessing later generations or on the flip cursing later generations for the sins or non sins of the ancestors. 

I would think that the promise would be contingent on their continuing to obey that commandment. 

20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

 21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

D&C 130

[HappyJackWagon]

36 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

The answer to your 2nd Q would depend on where you place the boundaries of America.

Do explain. I accept North, Central, and South America as the "Americas". So where do we find the Lamanites?

[ksfisher]

15 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Do explain. I accept North, Central, and South America as the "Americas". So where do we find the Lamanites?

Jacob doesn't really explain what group of people he is referring to. 

It could be to all of those who he considers Lamanites.

It could be to only a specific group within the Lamanites that he is holding up as an example.

I'm sure that Jacob's audience understood, but the text really doesn't explain which specific people Jacob was thinking about when he said Lamanite.

In the end I'm not sure that it really matters, as the Lord promises to bless all people who are obedient to his commandment.

[stemelbow]

15 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Jacob doesn't really explain what group of people he is referring to. 

It could be to all of those who he considers Lamanites.

It could be to only a specific group within the Lamanites that he is holding up as an example.

I'm sure that Jacob's audience understood, but the text really doesn't explain which specific people Jacob was thinking about when he said Lamanite.

In the end I'm not sure that it really matters, as the Lord promises to bless all people who are obedient to his commandment.

Well he is talking about those who were commanded through their father to keep the law.  It seems would have to only include those who were privy to the command. 

I think there are signs that Laman, Lemuel and company felt they were the ones continuing their family's traditions. 

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Q- Did immoral behavior put the early church at risk? Did the early church follow Jacob 3:5?

A- Of course the church did not follow Jacob 3:5 and as a result faced great persecution and violence.

 

Q- The BoM was written primarily for the benefit of the Lamanites. Who are the modern day Lamanites?

A- No clue. But it seems clear they aren't all native American as once taught.

Mormon polygamy fit Jacob's instructions ot a T.

Please do not derail this with another Lamanite discussion.

[Jeanne]

I dunno..my Pueblo foster sister is still waiting to turn white...My Dad at the time said she is getting lighter...?

[HappyJackWagon]

2 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Mormon polygamy fit Jacob's instructions ot a T.

Please do not derail this with another Lamanite discussion.

Dude. Seriously?

In a thread you started titled, Why Will the Lamanites Become a Blessed People?, you don't want "another Lamanite discussion"?

I just figured that if we're going to talk about Lamanites being blessed it would be helpful to know who the Lamanites are.

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Why should anyone's chastity behavior put me at risk; People I've never seen in my life, why should I care what they do with their bodies. I presume you write this LDS stance against violation of chastity rule, my question is how and why are we going to change the behaviors of foreign cultures like Europeans or all Western civilizations where sexual promiscuity is individual's ow choice.

The rebellious and sinful Lamanites were preserved and blessed because they kept the law of chastity. This has nothing to do with Europe or Africa, but with the covenants God makes with those who inhabit this land. Since the law of chastity is an universal and eternal principle, it wouldn't hurt them to learn it and repent. Much of my mission in Latin America was spent teaching the law of chastity and helping people receive a testimony of it and promise to live it. It made their lives better.

 

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

When people do things it influences other things. There are almost no entirely individualistic acts. It is naive to claim otherwise.

Indeed. At some pont enough individuals doing something becomes a powerful force in influencing what everyone does, for good or evil.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, rodheadlee said:

The answer to your 2nd Q would depend on where you place the boundaries of America.

Thanks, but this isn't about who Lamanites are. Does Jacob 3 have meaning for us?

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

The promise is weird.  It's talking about Lamanites being chaste, if you will, at the time of Jacob and because of that the Lamanites will be blessed at some later date?  Whose to say they will remain chaste?  do they lose their blessing?  I can't really tell.  But I find it hard to believe that the people remain chaste throughout the course of the Book of Mormon.  I don't get blessing later generations or on the flip cursing later generations for the sins or non sins of the ancestors. 

Nevertheless, it's what Jacob said, and it proved correct. He was speaking of people generally and not individually. He refers to the curse of the Lamanites which was to be separated from the presence of God. 

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Do explain. I accept North, Central, and South America as the "Americas". So where do we find the Lamanites?

Please take this to another thread. It is derailing this one.

[HappyJackWagon]

22 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Thanks, but this isn't about who Lamanites are. Does Jacob 3 have meaning for us?

This is my last comment because you are becoming inexplicably upset by the question about who the Lamanites are. You don't seem to grasp why identifying these "blessed" Lamanites is important to understanding how it might also apply to us. And you're unwilling to discuss it because it's a derail.

That's fine, but I find it hilarious.

HJW- Out!

Please create your own topic if you don't want to stick to Bernard's.

 

[stemelbow]

7 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Nevertheless, it's what Jacob said, and it proved correct. He was speaking of people generally and not individually. He refers to the curse of the Lamanites which was to be separated from the presence of God. 

What proved correct?  I don't have a clue how we can measure the results.  What is becoming a blessed people mean?  That they exist? 

[HappyJackWagon]

9 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

What proved correct?  I don't have a clue how we can measure the results.  What is becoming a blessed people mean?  That they exist? 

We don't know because we don't know who the Lamanites are and we can't discuss that here. We can't even be sure they exist because they can't be identified. But we want to talk about how we can learn from the ways in which they were blessed? Weird.

Whoops! HJW is really out. For real, now.

Edited August 10, 2016 by HappyJackWagon

[Bernard Gui]

54 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Jacob doesn't really explain what group of people he is referring to. 

It could be to all of those who he considers Lamanites.

It could be to only a specific group within the Lamanites that he is holding up as an example.

I'm sure that Jacob's audience understood, but the text really doesn't explain which specific people Jacob was thinking about when he said Lamanite.

In the end I'm not sure that it really matters, as the Lord promises to bless all people who are obedient to his commandment.

Since this happened shortly after the fracture of Lehi's family, it cannot involve a large group of people. There were only two small clans - those who went with Nephi and those who went with Laman. Some in the Nephi group had quickly slipped into adulterous practices, while the Laman group honored the teachings of their patriarch in this matter. The Nephites are warned not to judge their brothers, but to look after their own sins. He say that by doing this, both groups will be blessed.

[Bernard Gui]

48 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Well he is talking about those who were commanded through their father to keep the law.  It seems would have to only include those who were privy to the command. 

I think there are signs that Laman, Lemuel and company felt they were the ones continuing their family's traditions. 

Of course. They called Nephi a usurper until they were unified later in their history. According to Jacob, the Lamanites were preserved and restored precisely because of this act of their founders.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Bernard Gui

[RevTestament]

24 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

I dunno..my Pueblo foster sister is still waiting to turn white...My Dad at the time said she is getting lighter...?

Why is she waiting? Did the "scales fall" from her eyes?

Did the Nephites of old become as "white" as the countenance of the Savior? see 3 Nephi

If the scales have fallen from her eyes, I imagine she is white. The preoccupation with skin coloration is clearly wrong as much as waiting for some scale to peel off her eyeball would be. (Don't bother linking me to Pres Kimball's talk to the Natives.)