Why will the Lamanites become a blessed people?

[rodheadlee]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Do explain. I accept North, Central, and South America as the "Americas". So where do we find the Lamanites?

Everyone who is not a Nephite is a Lamanite. I accept your boundaries.

[rodheadlee]

22 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Thanks, but this isn't about who Lamanites are. Does Jacob 3 have meaning for us?

Sorry for the derail.

[Jeanne]

2 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Why is she waiting? Did the "scales fall" from her eyes?

Did the Nephites of old become as "white" as the countenance of the Savior? see 3 Nephi

If the scales have fallen from her eyes, I imagine she is white. The preoccupation with skin coloration is clearly wrong as much as waiting for some scale to peel off her eyeball would be. (Don't bother linking me to Pres Kimball's talk to the Natives.)

You know what I mean!  That is not how my Dad and other members took the scriptures.  White and deightsome was taken literally.  No biggy...nowadays my sister and I just smile..heck...I wanna tan!

[Bernard Gui]

14 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I dunno..my Pueblo foster sister is still waiting to turn white...My Dad at the time said she is getting lighter...?

Please don't derail this conversation. If you wish to discuss the Pueblo Indians, please Google Eugene Naranjo at the University of New Mexico interviews with Pueblo Indians and then see if you want to mock. He was the LDS branch president and a Santa Clara Pueblo tribal elder. Read his story and get back to me. The conversion of him and his wife was miraculous. He and my parents were good friends. We ate many feast day meals with him in his home. We never worried about the color of his skin, and neither did he.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

14 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

This is my last comment because you are becoming inexplicably upset by the question about who the Lamanites are. You don't seem to grasp why identifying these "blessed" Lamanites is important to understanding how it might also apply to us. And you're unwilling to discuss it because it's a derail.

That's fine, but I find it hilarious.

HJW- Out!

 

Thanks for getting out. I would ask to have you removed if you hadn't. Don't derail threads. 

[Bernard Gui]

14 hours ago, stemelbow said:

What proved correct?  I don't have a clue how we can measure the results.  What is becoming a blessed people mean?  That they exist? 

Yes, they became blessed. At the time Jacob spoke the Nephites had fled their presence fearing death. At several times during their history,

Lamanites were recipients of greater blessings than the Nephites, and at the coming of the savior, they were restored to the presence of God

and the curse was lifted. Please don't pursue this any farther. It's derailing the thread.

[Bernard Gui]

Wow, it's hard to keep a thread from getting derailed nowadays.

My question was, do the prophecy, promise, and teachings in 3 Jacob on the law of chastity have implications for us today?

It has nothing to do with who the Lamanites are, where they are, or whether or not they became white.

A group of misguided and rebellious people were given a promise of future blessings by a prophet precisely because they kept the law of chastity.

To me, this says the law of chastity is of utmost importance to God, and we as a people would do well to do all in our power to teach it and live it.
 

Is this significant for us today?

Everyone stick to the topic, please. Be courteous.

 

 

[Bernard Gui]

16 hours ago, ksfisher said:

I would think that the promise would be contingent on their continuing to obey that commandment. 

20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

 21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

D&C 130

The promise was kept in 3 and 4 Nephi. Are there any implications for us today?

[bcuzbcuz]

18 hours ago, The Nehor said:

When people do things it influences other things. There are almost no entirely individualistic acts. It is naive to claim otherwise.

That's a cute idea for butterflies and hurricanes but it doesn't really answer the question.  

AtheistMormon asked:  "Why should anyone's chastity behavior put me at risk; People I've never seen in my life, why should I care what they do with their bodies?"

It's a good question and shouldn't be trivialized. The Old Testament has ample examples of large groups being judged enmasse, without an individual analysis or evaluation of each person's behaviours, what we now call "group or collective punishment".   

Sodom and Gomorrah comes to mind. Noah's flood also, where every single man woman and child was wiped from the face of the earth (eN,oc,), where apparently even new born children were not excluded from the punishment for others actions. And then, there is "original sin", where every single person born on this planet has to pay for the actions of Adam and Eve.

Mormons are split. Many question whether Adam and Eve were real, actual, physical persons,, or whether the whole story is a parable. The stories of the Old Testament witness of an angry, vindictive super power, who regrets ever having created humans. But most of all, Mormons believe in personal accountablility.

Back to the original question. Will I or my family be judged because of immoral acts by some idiots in Las Vegas? Will I or my family be judged because someone else, who we neither know nor engage with, engages in homosexual behaviours that are condemned by the church? 

I have a large family, many children and many grandchildren. I have my own battles and it's hard enough controlling my own behaviours. I've learned there are few areas that I have where I can influence, not to mention, change, the behaviours I don't like in my family. 

Why am I also held accountable for how complete strangers behave, whether they are my next door neighbour, some one across town, or who live on the other side of the earth?

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, bcuzbcuz said:

That's a cute idea for butterflies and hurricanes but it doesn't really answer the question.  

AtheistMormon asked:  "Why should anyone's chastity behavior put me at risk; People I've never seen in my life, why should I care what they do with their bodies?"

It's a good question and shouldn't be trivialized. The Old Testament has ample examples of large groups being judged enmasse, without an individual analysis or evaluation of each person's behaviours, what we now call "group or collective punishment".   

Sodom and Gomorrah comes to mind. Noah's flood also, where every single man woman and child was wiped from the face of the earth (eN,oc,), where apparently even new born children were not excluded from the punishment for others actions. And then, there is "original sin", where every single person born on this planet has to pay for the actions of Adam and Eve.

Mormons are split. Many question whether Adam and Eve were real, actual, physical persons,, or whether the whole story is a parable. The stories of the Old Testament witness of an angry, vindictive super power, who regrets ever having created humans. But most of all, Mormons believe in personal accountablility.

Back to the original question. Will I or my family be judged because of immoral acts by some idiots in Las Vegas? Will I or my family be judged because someone else, who we neither know nor engage with, engages in homosexual behaviours that are condemned by the church? 

I have a large family, many children and many grandchildren. I have my own battles and it's hard enough controlling my own behaviours. I've learned there are few areas that I have where I can influence, not to mention, change, the behaviours I don't like in my family. 

Why am I also held accountable for how complete strangers behave, whether they are my next door neighbour, some one across town, or who live on the other side of the earth?

I do not think you understand what I said at all. I said that our actions have consequences and that we are responsible for those consequences. You cannot commit sin and argue it is okay because it will only hurt you.

The Old Testament stories say God judged people in large groups and took action. If you want to believe God either cannot or does not bother understanding the individuals you can but that is not an LDS belief. If a mortal court made such a judgment I would be appalled. If someone argues that God is judging them unfairly I am confused as to what kind of God they think they are worshipping.

Then you suggest that people will be punished for the sins of others as if I advocated for that. I did not.

Did you reply to the right person?

[Jeanne]

7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Please don't derail this conversation. If you wish to discuss the Pueblo Indians, please Google Eugene Naranjo at the University of New Mexico interviews with Pueblo Indians and then see if you want to mock. He was the LDS branch president and a Santa Clara Pueblo tribal elder. Read his story and get back to me. The conversion of him and his wife was miraculous. He and my parents were good friends. We ate many feast day meals with him in his home. We never worried about the color of his skin, and neither did he

I haven't read this yet and plan to.  But please, I wasn't mocking..it was a comment made that is shared between two sisters that smile about it.  Thank you. Lighten up Bernard..(no pun intended)

Edited August 11, 2016 by Jeanne

[stemelbow]

9 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Yes, they became blessed. At the time Jacob spoke the Nephites had fled their presence fearing death. At several times during their history,

Lamanites were recipients of greater blessings than the Nephites, and at the coming of the savior, they were restored to the presence of God

and the curse was lifted. Please don't pursue this any farther. It's derailing the thread.

Alright.  I'm not sure how to participate in this thread then. 

Maybe another thread topic would be a better fit for you.

 

[HappyJackWagon]

22 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Everyone who is not a Nephite is a Lamanite. I accept your boundaries.

I'm a Lamanite?

[ksfisher]

6 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I'm a Lamanite?

You're also a barbarian, gaijin, and a gentile.

[ksfisher]

7 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

The promise was kept in 3 and 4 Nephi. Are there any implications for us today?

Yes.  The promise from the Lord is that he blesses those who obey his commandments. 

[rodheadlee]

On 8/10/2016 at 2:01 AM, Bernard Gui said:

What was the commandment the Lamanites kept that brought them this promise?

They kept the law of chastity and as result God promised to remember them and brought them out of darkness or will make them a blessed people.

What are the Implications of this for us today? Just how important is the law of chastity? As our society moves deeper into rejecting the law, how serious is this rejection? What will be the consequences of this rejection? Is the current normalization of immoral behavior putting us at risk? If so, how will that be manifested? At what point does acceptance of immoral behavior put us at risk? What can result from this? What can be done to change the rush into immorality in the name of tolerance and acceptance? Is it past the hope of renewal? How would renewal take place?

.

 

The consequences of immoral behavior affect many. There are untold amount of families with one parent with one skipping out and denying his or her children the benefit of a complete family. The family with no father leaves the sons with no male role model to look up to and in many cases they reject male authority. The consequences of adultery are trust and a diving asunder of the relationship. I'm sure there are more qualified people on this board to discuss these repercussions in an academic manner. We also have several generations now that bear the guilt of murdering their unborn children under the guise of freedom of choice.

[Bernard Gui]

16 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I haven't read this yet and plan to.  But please, I wasn't mocking..it was a comment made that is shared between two sisters that smile about it.  Thank you. Lighten up Bernard..(no pun intended)

The white-skin-Lamanite joke has a long history on this board. It usually leads to mockery of General Authorities, Spencer Kimball in particular.

That's not the purpose of this thread. Thanks.

Edited August 12, 2016 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

16 hours ago, ksfisher said:

Yes.  The promise from the Lord is that he blesses those who obey his commandments. 

Thanks....but please keep on this topic, not the one HappyJack wants to change it to.

While reading Jacob 3, I noticed this promise. I had breezed by it in many previous readings and never gave it a second thought.

Jacob is trying to keep his people safe and united. He and his people live in fear of the Lamanites. Now he has to deal with adultery and immortality that would threaten to destroy their group. He points out that the Lamanites keep this commandment as it was give to them by their patriarch Lehi. He prophecies that because of this one act of obedience the Lamanites will be blessed.

At the time they were cursed to be separated from the presence of God, yet persisting in doing this good thing would be a blessing in the future, which proved to be true as they were reunited in righteousness many centuries later.

Today, observing the law of chastity is no longer important except to a few religions, and their fealty is constantly being erodedby societal pressures. My belief is that we as a church will be blessed if we continue to believe, teach, and live this law and do ourbest to convince others to do the same.  

Edited August 12, 2016 by Bernard Gui

[Jeanne]

51 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

The white-skin-Laminate joke has a long history on this board. It usually leads to mockery of General Authorities, Spencer Kimball in particular.

That's not the purpose of this thread. Thanks.

Okay..I didn't know that.  I am sorry. It was not my intention to offend anyone. 

Edited August 11, 2016 by Jeanne