Scott Lloyd Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 (edited) Just ran across this quote from Billy Sunday, a fiery evangelist of the 1880s. It made me chuckle. Quote When the consensus of scholarship says one thing and the word of God another, the consensus of scholarship can plumb go to hell for all I care. Edited June 8, 2016 by Scott Lloyd 2
consiglieri Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 This reminds me of something Brigham Young said along the lines of, "Remember, gentlemen, that no man's opinion is worth straw." But taken at face value, Billy Sunday's line of thinking seems to put a priority over ancient Hebrew myth over scientific advancement. Probably not a good position, all in all.
CV75 Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, consiglieri said: This reminds me of something Brigham Young said along the lines of, "Remember, gentlemen, that no man's opinion is worth straw." But taken at face value, Billy Sunday's line of thinking seems to put a priority over ancient Hebrew myth over scientific advancement. Probably not a good position, all in all. Not a big deal, he was just expressing his feelings: Billy Sunday at the White House, 1922 2
Teancum Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Just ran across this quote from Billy Sunday, a fiery evangelist of the 1880s. It made me chuckle. Billy Sunday seems like quite the idiot. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted June 8, 2016 Author Posted June 8, 2016 23 minutes ago, Teancum said: Billy Sunday seems like quite the idiot. Because, in concept, he places the word of God as paramount above the ruminations of scholars? I think your remark is the more idiotic. I admit here that one person's conception of the word of God might differ markedly from another person's. The devil is in the details, as the saying goes. But to say one is an idiot for expressing this in concept strikes me as its own kind of bigotry. Incidentally, I'm no Billy Sunday devotee. I only posted this because it struck me as humorous in a direct, curmudgeonly, unequivocal sort of way. I can imagine a beloved, elder uncle saying something like this and my getting a laugh out of it. 4
Robert F. Smith Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Just ran across this quote from Billy Sunday, a fiery evangelist of the 1880s. It made me chuckle. Yeh, but he wasn't able to shut down Chicago, according to the song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoKn7vkSMBc .
Scott Lloyd Posted June 8, 2016 Author Posted June 8, 2016 9 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said: Yeh, but he wasn't able to shut down Chicago, according to the song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoKn7vkSMBc . My mom mentioned Billy Sunday a time or two. At first, I wondered if she were talking about Billy Graham. Perhaps Sunday was a Billy Graham mentor?
boblloyd91 Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 25 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: My mom mentioned Billy Sunday a time or two. At first, I wondered if she were talking about Billy Graham. Perhaps Sunday was a Billy Graham mentor? I don't think so, at least not directly. I think Graham was a bit more measured then he was. From what I understand Elmer Gantry was based off of him
Robert F. Smith Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 19 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: My mom mentioned Billy Sunday a time or two. At first, I wondered if she were talking about Billy Graham. Perhaps Sunday was a Billy Graham mentor? Probably not.. Billy Sunday died in 1935, just before Billy Graham got his start. Plus, they didn't preach in a similar way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykn8YcIbmfo .
Steve Thompson Posted June 8, 2016 Posted June 8, 2016 And a quote from Reinhold Neibuhr: Extreme orthodoxy betrays by its very frenzy that the poison of skepticism has entered the soul of the church; for men insist most vehemently upon their certainties when their hold upon them has been shaken. Frantic orthodoxy is a method for obscuring doubt.
Teancum Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Because, in concept, he places the word of God as paramount above the ruminations of scholars? I think your remark is the more idiotic. I admit here that one person's conception of the word of God might differ markedly from another person's. The devil is in the details, as the saying goes. But to say one is an idiot for expressing this in concept strikes me as its own kind of bigotry. Incidentally, I'm no Billy Sunday devotee. I only posted this because it struck me as humorous in a direct, curmudgeonly, unequivocal sort of way. I can imagine a beloved, elder uncle saying something like this and my getting a laugh out of it. ah well. That you think my comment is idiotic gives me assurance I am on the right path. 2
Teancum Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 8 hours ago, consiglieri said: This reminds me of something Brigham Young said along the lines of, "Remember, gentlemen, that no man's opinion is worth straw." But taken at face value, Billy Sunday's line of thinking seems to put a priority over ancient Hebrew myth over scientific advancement. Probably not a good position, all in all. Indeed. But Scott thinks that is idiotic and bigotry. I wonder if he can say pot meet kettle. 1
TheSkepticChristian Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Just ran across this quote from Billy Sunday, a fiery evangelist of the 1880s. It made me chuckle.
bcuzbcuz Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 15 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Just ran across this quote from Billy Sunday, a fiery evangelist of the 1880s. It made me chuckle. Do a Wikipedia on Billy Sunday. He held sermons about sex with such colourful language that women had to be carried out and even men fainted. His sermons were full of hellfire and damnation and apparently he became quite wealthy from his preaching.
Calm Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 "had to be carried out" You mean wanted to be carried out. If he was famous for these sermons, the men and women intentionally went to his meetings knowing they would hear such things and thus enjoyed the opportunity to display their own allegedly offended sense of morality before the world. It would be along the same lines as someone who goes to x rayed movies and then acts all offended by the explicit nature. At this time of night, not having slept, my reaction is tending to one of disgust for all involved to turn what should be an act of communal worship for God into one of personal display for social entertainment and attention. 1
jkwilliams Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 15 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Because, in concept, he places the word of God as paramount above the ruminations of scholars? I think your remark is the more idiotic. I admit here that one person's conception of the word of God might differ markedly from another person's. The devil is in the details, as the saying goes. But to say one is an idiot for expressing this in concept strikes me as its own kind of bigotry. Incidentally, I'm no Billy Sunday devotee. I only posted this because it struck me as humorous in a direct, curmudgeonly, unequivocal sort of way. I can imagine a beloved, elder uncle saying something like this and my getting a laugh out of it. What is idiotic is the notion that one's interpretation of the word of God trumps everything else. We are supposed to be learning line upon line, but we humans too often pretend that we have knowledge of something or other and can simply ignore everything that contradicts what we think we know. As Twain put it, "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Most Mormons I know reject Joseph Fielding Smith's belief in a young earth with no evolution, but back in the day, President Smith was absolutely sure he knew better than "scholarly consensus." 2
Storm Rider Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, Teancum said: Indeed. But Scott thinks that is idiotic and bigotry. I wonder if he can say pot meet kettle. I busted out laughing when I read this - oh the ignorance of those who feign vaunted intelligence. Surely there are no mirrors in your home or you never have seen yourself in them. Edited June 9, 2016 by Storm Rider 2
jkwilliams Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 19 minutes ago, Storm Rider said: I busted out laughing when I read this - oh the ignorance of those who feign vaunted intelligence. Surely there are no mirrors in your home or you never have seen yourself in them. Fools mock, but they shall mourn.
rodheadlee Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 9 minutes ago, jkwilliams said: Fools mock, but they shall mourn. You wouldn't be mocking with that statement would you 1
jkwilliams Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 6 minutes ago, rodheadlee said: You wouldn't be mocking with that statement would you That would be foolish.
rpn Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 There is nothing novel about Mr. Sunday's statement. The Gospel of Jesus Christ incorporates all truth, after all. The challenge for mortals is that we only know partial truth in many areas, and even the language we mortals use may not allow for accurate expression of truth. And we tend to understand His words that we do have accurately, with mortal eyes. Ultimate science is within Truth. What we presently know scientifically may not be truth. 1
ERayR Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 13 hours ago, Teancum said: ah well. That you think my comment is idiotic gives me assurance I am on the right path. That depends on where you want to go.
Storm Rider Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 2 hours ago, jkwilliams said: Fools mock, but they shall mourn. Rolling on the floor - do you guys read what you write or is that you think you are being cute?!? Surely you get the irony of your words? 1
jkwilliams Posted June 9, 2016 Posted June 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Storm Rider said: Rolling on the floor - do you guys read what you write or is that you think you are being cute?!? Surely you get the irony of your words? Sarcasm is wasted on some.
Teancum Posted June 10, 2016 Posted June 10, 2016 10 hours ago, Storm Rider said: I busted out laughing when I read this - oh the ignorance of those who feign vaunted intelligence. Surely there are no mirrors in your home or you never have seen yourself in them. I own my bad behavior and over and over on this board have done so. And I readily admit the current conclusions I have about the LDS Church, God, etc could be wrong. I don't see much openness to being wrong by many on this board. And by the way I will admit my initial post on this topic was out of line.
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