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Steve Thompson

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  1. That's the part of the theory of EME that has never made sense to me. Why would God go to all the trouble of revealing the plates to Joseph only to transmit to him, and through him to the world, a translation done previously by some other individual/being that wasn't fully intelligible to those to whom it was revealed. I gather some consider it to be a type of "easter egg," that when discovered at a later date somehow verifies Joseph Smith's account of gold plates, seer stone, etc., but that strains credulity.
  2. If you are interested in how the ancient Egyptians viewed their history I recommend Pharaonic King-Lists Annals and Day-Books, A Contribution to the Egyptian Sense of History by Donald Redford.
  3. There are contemporary Egyptian documents that span the time period during which the deluge would have occurred, based on biblical chronology. These are inscriptions recorded in the tombs (mastabas) of officials whom we can date based on the kings they mention serving during their lifetimes. There are also physical remains from ancient Egypt that span this time period as well. The myth I was referring to, which is the one summarized in Wikipedia, is known as the Book of the Heavenly Cow. You can read a translation in W.K. Simpson, Literature of Ancient Egypt, p. 290ff (reachable through th
  4. An old LDS Institute Manual gives the date of the flood as 2344BC(E). That would put the flood during the Egyptian 6th dynasty, probably in the reign of Teti. If you would like to read translations of Egyptian records dating to before, during and immediately after the time of the flood I suggest you look at Breasted's Ancient Records of Egypt, vol. 1 (there are more recent translations of these texts, but this work is available here for download: https://archive.org/details/BreastedJ.H.AncientRecordsEgyptAll5Vols1906/page/n161/mode/2up). If you mean a continuous, narrative history, then no,
  5. Those interested in the discussion of the attempt to mathematically determine the length of the Hor papyrus scroll may find the following article of interest: The length of a scroll: Quantitative evaluation of material reconstructionsEshbal Ratzon, Nachum DershowitzPublished: October 21, 2020https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0239831Scholars have used mathematical models to estimate the missing lengthof deteriorated scrolls from ancient Egypt, Qumran, Herculaneum, andelsewhere. Based on such estimations, the content of ancientliterature as well as the process of its composition is deduc
  6. If anyone is interested in how several Egyptologists interpret the figures of the four sons of Horus when they occur in hypocephali, here's a passage from Mekis' book on the Hypocephalus: In the second group of figures, the Four Sons of Horus appear in the first position, and stand in front of the jh.t-cow and the god(dess), who has a wedjat-eye in the place of his/her head. According to Jan Assmann, the Four Sons of Horus manifest the personality of the deceased.327 Bernard Mathieu, in his study of the Four Sons of Horus, approaching Assmann’s interpretation, wrote about how the fou
  7. In regards to the following: And another: Sobek, The God of Pharaoh (Conclusion: "From evidence unknown in Joseph Smith’s day, we can say the following about 'the god of Pharaoh' in the Book of Abraham and Facsimile 1. First, the god in question is most likely the crocodile deity Sobek. Second, among other things, Sobek was closely associated with the Pharaoh of Egypt. Third, Sobek was especially venerated by king Amenemhet III, a pharaoh contemporary to Abraham. Fourth, and finally, specimens of Sobek iconography have been recovered from the likely region of Abraham’s homeland during the
  8. If you would like to read some examples of the narrative possibilities of the Egyptian language (in English translation) I suggest the following collection of Egyptian literature: https://ia802907.us.archive.org/1/items/TheLiteratureOfAncientEgyptKellySimpsonBySamySalah/The Literature of Ancient Egypt - Kelly Simpson By Samy Salah.pdf Take a look at the Story of Sinuhe, for example. The original is written in Middle Egyptian, the language in use in Egypt during what most consider to be the time of Abraham.
  9. Here's the issue in a nutshell. Willems argues that a specific offense, desecration of a particular place or object (quotes are from the Willems article referenced above, emphasis added) was punished by execution that could be considered a sacrifice: Ever since the Egyptians began to provide their dead with valuable tomb furnishings, there were probably tomb robbers. Many biographies from the Old Kingdom inform us that tombs and equipment were gifts from the king himself. In view of this state commitment to the Afterlife of the nobility, it is logical that the central government was also
  10. In light of the above some may find the following of interest: "In a recent contribution, Harco Willems' proposed a new interpretation for a genre which J. A. Wilson had called 'curses and threats' and rubricised under the general heading of 'Rituals, incantations'.2 Willems holds that these texts, or at least a consider able part of them, do not belong to the domain of magic or religion, but to that of legislation and jurisdiction. He takes punishments such as burning,3 and even cooking4-which have generally been held to refer to infernal punishments in the hereafter, belonging more to t
  11. Anubis is not always drawn with two tall, distinct ears. It took me 30 sec. to find this example, from a Ptolemaic Period (contemporary with the BB papyrus of Hor) copy of the Book of the Dead. The figure is labeled as Anubis, so there's no doubt what is depicted.
  12. Here's another possible explanation for the identification of the crocodile with the god, Pharaoh (fig. 9, facs. 1): Consider the “of” in “the idolatrous God of Pharaoh” to be an epexegetical genitive, meaning that Pharaoh IS the God depicted in fig. 9. This is the way the “of” in the explanations of figures 5-8 is to be understood, as the nouns given are taken as the names of the gods. The identification of Pharaoh as both a god, and as a crocodile, occurs in Ezekiel 29:3: 3 Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great drago
  13. Josephus is one possibility: 2. For whereas the Egyptians were formerly addicted to different customs, and despised one anothers sacred and accustomed rites, and were very angry one with another on that account; Abram conferred with each of them, and confuting the reasonings they made use of, every one for their own practices, he demonstrated that such reasonings were vain, and void of truth. Whereupon he was admired by them, in those conferences, as a very wise man, and one of great sagacity, when he discoursed on any subject he undertook; and this not only in understanding it, but in pe
  14. Sorry. You may get this twice, but I guess it's better than not having it all.
  15. Yes, there are several places in the Book of Breathings papyrus where the name of the deceased appears. Some are damaged, however, so you won't see the full writing. Here's one writing of Hr mAa xrw, with the wsir (Osiris) partially missing, from a fragment of the BB papyrus pasted into Pap. JS 2.6: After a quick scan of the papyrus and Ritner's transliteration I couldn't find any examples where the entire "Osiris Hor, justified" was written out completely without being damaged in some fashion. There may be one, but I couldn't find it at the moment.
  16. First, I apologize for the duplicate posting of the images. I took the images I posted from the JSPP website: josephsmithpapers.org/site/book-of-abraham-and-egyptian-material I clipped images of the writing of Hor's name from another column in the papyrus, and then clipped figures 11-14 from mss. C.
  17. I will probably regret this, as the BA mss and JS Egyptian papers are not my area of expertise, but .... I leave it up to the reader to determine if the characters in mss. C derive from what would have originally been in the papyrus after characters labeled #10. Whether characters 11-14 occur elsewhere in the JS Papyri I cannot say.
  18. In view of the discussion that has taken place here I thought these passages from Leonard Arrington's diaries might be of interest: A key stage in my own reconciliation of modern learning with religious belief came with reading George Santayana, The Life of Reason: Reason in Religion.2 The book was published in 1936 by Charles Scribner’s Sons, and I apparently bought it in 1937 and read most of it very carefully and appreciatively.3 The book was very influential for me; it helped me to see that one might be a sincere believer in Mormonism and at the same time accept the findings of
  19. If you are really interested in the topic, Muhlestein's dissertation on the subject was published and is available for free download here: https://www.academia.edu/10132431/Violence_in_the_Service_of_Order_the_Religious_Framework_for_Sanctioned_Killing_in_Ancient_Egypt._British_Archaeological_Reports_International_Series_2299_Oxford_Archaeopress_2011_ After reading this, ask yourself if the events he describes really are analogous to the events described in Abraham 1.
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