Atheist Mormon Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 Back in the days (1976) when missionaries were teaching me in a faraway land, they were teaching the plan of salvation, the great fight between Satan and the armies of God....I thought, why fight when Lucifer is proposing; "Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor." excuse me, but I liked it, I still like it. The miseries the humankind endures is mind boggling, the US city I live in has beggars/homeless everywhere, out of 7+billion of humanity how many of them can sustain a normal life? I say more than 50% of humanity depends on other fifty to keep them alive...Back then my life was very hard, I was experiencing horrible experiences one after another. Looking back If a were a god I'd spread the wealth to everyone, let them live in utopia, rather than in dystopia we are experiencing today..... Few years later I realized this whole scheme of religion was wrong from every angle.......
Popular Post ERMD Posted May 30, 2016 Popular Post Posted May 30, 2016 You are not. 1/3 of the hosts of heaven were deceived as well. 7
BlueDreams Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 (edited) No, I have had moments - mostly joking - where I see that I wouldn't have minded satan's ideal. But it's only jokingly. It would have entailed a power grab by satan and then destroying "the agency of man." It wouldn't be about our growth or reaching our fullest capacities in this life in being like our Parents, but perpetual servitude/fulfilling at force the will of someone else who's main motto is "give me thy glory." Slavery isn't a good thing on earth. Sure isn't my ideal of my eternal soul. It's not really a fix-all for our current state but drastically increases the inequality by making one being all-powerful and unwilling to share in said glory, with everybody else falling in-line based on his own preferences. We may all be saved but under his plan none of us make it to the top. In God's all can choose their destinies and those that choose Him share all that the They have. It's the fine print that really sucks. We buy our sense of security and relative comfort by perpetual eternal inequity and servitude....while also betraying our actual creator and Eternal Parents....and ergo betraying our true nature. With luv, BD Edited May 30, 2016 by BlueDreams 2
Jeanne Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 I have often wondered..assuming there was a real war in heaven, if the one third would have been different if Satan had kept his plan..but said.."The glory would be Thine".
Popular Post Robert F. Smith Posted May 30, 2016 Popular Post Posted May 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said: Back in the days (1976) when missionaries were teaching me in a faraway land, they were teaching the plan of salvation, the great fight between Satan and the armies of God....I thought, why fight when Lucifer is proposing; "Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor." excuse me, but I liked it, I still like it. The miseries the humankind endures is mind boggling, the US city I live in has beggars/homeless everywhere, out of 7+billion of humanity how many of them can sustain a normal life? I say more than 50% of humanity depends on other fifty to keep them alive...Back then my life was very hard, I was experiencing horrible experiences one after another. Looking back If a were a god I'd spread the wealth to everyone, let them live in utopia, rather than in dystopia we are experiencing today..... Few years later I realized this whole scheme of religion was wrong from every angle....... You are not that unusual, and the "totalitarian temptation"* is a real one. Even today in Russia, people still hanker for the good old Soviet days when everyone had a job, financial and medical security, low crime (only the state was permitted to commit crime), etc. Why bother to make your own decisions when you can depend on someone else? Freedom and free choice is simply too risky and fraught with real problems. That is why ancient Israel insisted on having a king, despite the objections of Samuel the Prophet. And so it is with us in the West in our own time -- a nation of sheep. * Jean-François Revel, The Totalitarian Temptation (Doubleday, 1976). 6
Atheist Mormon Posted May 30, 2016 Author Posted May 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said: You do realise he was lying, right? Nobody told me then, even so, he had the power.... And how many of us wouldn't want to chase a dream like that, instead facing a certain misery.
mnn727 Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 So, you want to be a programmed little robot and never even have the chance for eternal growth? You do realize that you can grow in your place, you don't have to beat everyone else, you just have to overcome yourself. 4
Traela Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 Are you a helicopter parent? Because, at best, that is was Lucifer would have been. We might have had reasonably happy mortal lives because he was making all the decisions, but we never would have become prepared to take our places as heirs of eternal life. 2
James Tunney Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 Doesn't correlation, unquestioning obedience combined with Benson's 14 fundamentals of following the prophet have similarities to Satan's plan? Satan wanted to think for us like the correlated church does?
Popular Post Meadowchik Posted May 30, 2016 Popular Post Posted May 30, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said: Nobody told me then, even so, he had the power.... And how many of us wouldn't want to chase a dream like that, instead facing a certain misery. Certain misery? Without suffering then EVERYthing we experience in life would just be another meh moment. We'd look on, feel nothing and learn nothing. Some misery is part of life, real life, not Satan's fake plan for non-life. Real life is the only one with possible joy. Edited May 30, 2016 by Meadowchik 5
longview Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said: Nobody told me then, even so, he had the power.... And how many of us wouldn't want to chase a dream like that, instead facing a certain misery. Why call it a dream? The only way Lucifer can succeed is to turn YOU into a mind-numbed robot and do exactly what he tells you to do. No vacations for you. No explorations, no experimenting, no give and take, no understanding of consequences, no assessments of preferences, no nothing! But the DREARY realism of the bland totalitarian Socialist State . . . like the USSR or (horrors) North Korea . . . 1
BlueDreams Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 17 minutes ago, Meadowchik said: Certain misery? Without suffering then EVERYthing we experience in life would just be another meh moment. We'd look on, feel nothing and learn nothing. Some misery is part of life, real life, not Satan's fake plan for non-life. Real life is the only one with possible joy. That reminds me of this article I read in the ensign for june: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2016/06/seven-tender-miracles-along-the-way?lang=eng With luv, BD 1
thesometimesaint Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.
TheSkepticChristian Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, mnn727 said: So, you want to be a programmed little robot and never even have the chance for eternal growth? Actually, all the evidence points to that, we likely are programmed little robots! 1. We are a product of our time and culture 2. A . Most people believe what their parents teach them. B. How you were raised 3. Our Genes contribute to our personality. For example, the God Gene 4. Circumstances 5. Chance 6. Hallucinations and life changing experience I am not saying we don't have any free will, we do have some kind of free will, but we mostly don't. Think of a color, why did you think of that color? or why is that your favorite color? Edited May 30, 2016 by TheSkepticChristian
PeterPear Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 4 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: Nobody told me then, even so, he had the power.... And how many of us wouldn't want to chase a dream like that, instead facing a certain misery. No. Satan did not have the power to save. Satan was a liar because he didn't have any power to save anyone. He was cast out of heaven, meaning he was powerless.
JAHS Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 It's happening again this thread has 15 replies and Zero views. You all really should look at the OP before replying. ;-)
VideoGameJunkie Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 Lucifer just wanted to overthrow God in power, he never cared about our salvation.
Guest Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 7 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: Back in the days (1976) when missionaries were teaching me in a faraway land, they were teaching the plan of salvation, the great fight between Satan and the armies of God....I thought, why fight when Lucifer is proposing; "Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor." excuse me, but I liked it, I still like it. The miseries the humankind endures is mind boggling, the US city I live in has beggars/homeless everywhere, out of 7+billion of humanity how many of them can sustain a normal life? I say more than 50% of humanity depends on other fifty to keep them alive...Back then my life was very hard, I was experiencing horrible experiences one after another. Looking back If a were a god I'd spread the wealth to everyone, let them live in utopia, rather than in dystopia we are experiencing today..... Few years later I realized this whole scheme of religion was wrong from every angle....... When you were a child, then a teenager; did you like your parents trying to force you to obey? Even though choices that you might have made would cause harm or injury? Also, it is impossible to force someone to love you? Same with God, he cannot force us to love him. Satan, not only sought to rob us of our free agency, but his methods of enforcing his will would have led to even more brutal means of horror that the world offers today. I short, Satan had no right, no understanding and no love for anyone. Many in the anti-Mormon community point to this exchange and tell others that Satan had a chance at being our Saviour. JEHOVAH, "Jesus Christ", Joshua bin Elohiem, Alpha and Omega and the only begotten, was and is the only Saviour there could have ever been.
Jim Stiles Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 7 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: Back in the days (1976) when missionaries were teaching me in a faraway land, they were teaching the plan of salvation, the great fight between Satan and the armies of God....I thought, why fight when Lucifer is proposing; "Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor." excuse me, but I liked it, I still like it. The miseries the humankind endures is mind boggling, the US city I live in has beggars/homeless everywhere, out of 7+billion of humanity how many of them can sustain a normal life? I say more than 50% of humanity depends on other fifty to keep them alive...Back then my life was very hard, I was experiencing horrible experiences one after another. Looking back If a were a god I'd spread the wealth to everyone, let them live in utopia, rather than in dystopia we are experiencing today..... Few years later I realized this whole scheme of religion was wrong from every angle....... Joseph Smith Jr. hated the Presbyterian Church more than any other Protestant denomination. What better way to attack them then to make up a story where Satan spins a tale of predestination?
BCSpace Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 7 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: Back in the days (1976) when missionaries were teaching me in a faraway land, they were teaching the plan of salvation, the great fight between Satan and the armies of God....I thought, why fight when Lucifer is proposing; "Behold, here am I, send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me thine honor." excuse me, but I liked it, I still like it. The miseries the humankind endures is mind boggling, the US city I live in has beggars/homeless everywhere, out of 7+billion of humanity how many of them can sustain a normal life? I say more than 50% of humanity depends on other fifty to keep them alive...Back then my life was very hard, I was experiencing horrible experiences one after another. Looking back If a were a god I'd spread the wealth to everyone, let them live in utopia, rather than in dystopia we are experiencing today..... Few years later I realized this whole scheme of religion was wrong from every angle....... Science, nature, economics, etc. have all demonstrated that anything like Satan's plan can't work and won't produce the desired results.
Meadowchik Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 4 hours ago, BlueDreams said: That reminds me of this article I read in the ensign for june: https://www.lds.org/ensign/2016/06/seven-tender-miracles-along-the-way?lang=eng With luv, BD What a story Ephram Smith has! Thank you! I'm feeling it, too, I think, more than ever, at least for my own life: that background of pain and various discomforts of all kinds, making every experience more contrasted than it ever could have been before. It is like the experience these past couple weeks: friends in our village lost their house in a fire but got out safely with their three kids. I was visiting them in their temporary lodgings nearly a week later and remarked how they seemed to have rediscovered their morale, their hopefulness. She agreed, said they were "rebuilding the nest." And when in my kitchen cupboard I found a fancy platter belonging to her which I had not yet returned and could then give her one thing of hers, it felt so joyful, and the fact that it made her smile, too. I don't think I felt the same depth with my oldest kids at age 5 as I do now with my twins. It's something come with the investment of our lives. The terror we felt when we expected twins was joined with happiness because our entire family free closer together by living them. Working through the difficulties has made every relationship richer. 1
TheSkepticChristian Posted May 30, 2016 Posted May 30, 2016 16 minutes ago, BCSpace said: Science, nature, economics, etc. have all demonstrated that anything like Satan's plan can't work and won't produce the desired results. what do you mean by economics? Did you know that in the distant future technology and robots will force us to become socialists? Robots will do all the work for us. and how do you respond to this? 1 hour ago, TheSkepticChristian said: Actually, all the evidence points to that, we likely are programmed little robots! 1. We are a product of our time and culture 2. A . Most people believe what their parents teach them. B. How you were raised 3. Our Genes contribute to our personality. For example, the God Gene 4. Circumstances 5. Chance 6. Hallucinations and life changing experience I am not saying we don't have any free will, we do have some kind of free will, but we mostly don't. Think of a color, why did you think of that color? or why is that your favorite color?
Atheist Mormon Posted May 30, 2016 Author Posted May 30, 2016 7 hours ago, mnn727 said: So, you want to be a programmed little robot and never even have the chance for eternal growth? You do realize that you can grow in your place, you don't have to beat everyone else, you just have to overcome yourself. Yep, beats the heck out of living on streets
Atheist Mormon Posted May 30, 2016 Author Posted May 30, 2016 2 hours ago, Pa Pa said: When you were a child, then a teenager; did you like your parents trying to force you to obey? Even though choices that you might have made would cause harm or injury? Also, it is impossible to force someone to love you? Same with God, he cannot force us to love him. Satan, not only sought to rob us of our free agency, but his methods of enforcing his will would have led to even more brutal means of horror that the world offers today. I short, Satan had no right, no understanding and no love for anyone. Many in the anti-Mormon community point to this exchange and tell others that Satan had a chance at being our Saviour. JEHOVAH, "Jesus Christ", Joshua bin Elohiem, Alpha and Omega and the only begotten, was and is the only Saviour there could have ever been. Well, God is not dealing with a child, when he didn't show up in my twenties I was patient. Now that I'm over sixty I have no patience, in fact I want to have my cake and eat it here while I am breathing, I'm way past of disciplined/reprimanded....Besides do I treat my employees that way? I'll promise giving them raises and never...never follow through?....This is God's way. my way is; if I promise I'll do it....Don't believe me, read the Book, it is full of deception...Heck....who would wonder around the desert forty years for a promised land? Most of it was wasteland. Why choose such barren land, I could show God ten million other fertile places....
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