Safety and Being Too Nice

[Traela]

43 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

Why was he arrested? Sleeping with a Mia Maid is not against the law.

 

Uh, hello?  Statutory rape?

 

[rodheadlee]

10 minutes ago, Traela said:

 

Uh, hello?  Statutory rape?

 

Well he didn't say that she was underage or that it was against her will. I consider ALL underage children  a clear and present danger. In todays world they should be under vetted adult supervision.

Edited May 27, 2016 by rodheadlee

[BlueDreams]

A lot of us aren't. I say this because I've seen a lot of women who have very enmeshed relationships or cannot set proper boundaries with friends, family, lovers, boys, strangers, etc. The reasons I've seen for this follow a certain list:

- early sexual abuse. Particularly rape or molestation. This is worse if it isn't addressed with family in healthy ways.

- family relationships, particularly if there is an overbearing parent or heavy parentification of the child.

- cultural expectations for women to be nice or docile that go unchecked or become over dominating 

- family expectations that maintain authoritarian standards or implicitly maintain loyalty and caregiving at the expense of autonomy.  

- little to no discussion of sexual concerns in safe and accepting manners. 

- any form of abuse

- low self esteem

These tend to effect women's ability to stand up for themselves in "mean" ways more than men's. But I've seen it in men as well. Either way fostering female voice is something that I feel I'm always working with in my office in one way or another. Which to me, indicates a pretty pervasive problem. 

 

With luv,

BD

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, rodheadlee said:

Why was he arrested? Sleeping with a Mia Maid is not against the law.

Yes it is, because she would have been younger than the legal age of consent. It's called statutory rape. 

[rodheadlee]

8 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Yes it is, because she would have been younger than the legal age of consent. It's called statutory rape. 

Sheesh, I already responded to this, 2 posts above. I do not know what the various age groups are called in the Church. I have NO children. VGJ did not clarify the Mia Maid's age.

Edited May 27, 2016 by rodheadlee

[bluebell]

8 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

So how do we teach our children to recognise a wolf?

Dr. Phil's approach is to teach our kids (and to learn ourselves) that we don't owe anyone the benefit of the doubt. 

Don't assume people we've just met or are strangers are nice, don't assume they are trustworthy, don't assume they mean you no harm.  Don't think that part of being polite or having manners is that we need to assume those things.  

Treat them neutral until you know them better.  

For younger kids, I've seen the new emphasis now in America is to teach them about tricky people rather than stranger danger. It involves helping them to spot people that aren't safe because they tell lies or try to trick others into doing things they shouldn't or try to get you to keep secrets, etc. 

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

Sheesh, I already responded to this, 2 posts above. I do not know what the various age groups are called in the Church. I have NO children. VGJ did not clarify the Mia Maid's age.

Don't get defensive. You asked a question and it was answered. That doesn't need a "sheesh". 

Mia maids are 14-15 years old.

[CV75]

1 minute ago, bluebell said:

For younger kids, I've seen the new emphasis now in America is to teach them about tricky people rather than stranger danger. It involves helping them to spot people that aren't safe because they tell lies or try to trick others into doing things they shouldn't or try to get you to keep secrets, etc. 

That's good because so much of the abuse is perpetrated by family members and friends -- the worst wolves in sheep's clothing.

[bluebell]

Just now, CV75 said:

That's good because so much of the abuse is perpetrated by family members and friends -- the worst wolves in sheep's clothing.

Exactly. 

[rodheadlee]

9 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

So how do we teach our children to recognise a wolf?

All people are considered to be wolves, even people you know, until proven trustworthy. Once someone is trustworthy then they are inside the circle of Family.

Edited May 27, 2016 by rodheadlee

[Tacenda]

17 hours ago, Jeanne said:

This is sad...why do they do this?  Many women to dance with and they pick a 15 year old.  I am sure you handled it well.

Don't be too sure about them either.  Oops, I meant quote Rodheadlee's quote, sorry Jeanne!

Edited May 27, 2016 by Tacenda

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

My foundation approach was (and is now, with grandchildren) is to strive to be a good sheep myself, or wise as a serpent ("quick to observe") and as harmless as a dove (charitable). Explaining what I am observing and doing, as age-appropriate, can help model what I'm trying to teach. From there, as a "watchman," it's a balance of holding their hands and letting them climb up the monkey bars and slides themselves (actually and metaphorically), which I think teaches them to observe, discern, and have the confidence to act and to do their best (the basis for charity). Reading scripture stories from the earliest age helps them see that people are not always as nice as they appear -- I always like to use Aesop's fables and some of the fairy tales as well. Then there is the more frank and direct approach with child safety instruction.

A good example (perhaps): I grew up in NYC and from the earliest age my mother taught us to always walk briskly as if I was on my way to meet someone, and always look ahead. I still walk that way LOL "Man on mission" they say... She also taught us to follow our conscience, instruction which has served me well all my life. I think that gift helps us know right from wrong for ourselves, but also for our situations and circumstances and for recognizing wolves.

I think teaching a child to follow his conscience helps him develop / trust his intuition, and teaching him to walk helps him develop / trust his five sense.

I used to live in NYC in the 70's, west village, worked nights went to school days,  took the train home late to Astor place, east village, and walked through deserted streets. You had to walk down the middle of the street so no one could grab you from the doorways. I did get robbed once by four guys with knives 

Very scary. But I did learn from that to be very careful in all situations.

[Meadowchik]

1 hour ago, CV75 said:

My foundation approach was (and is now, with grandchildren) is to strive to be a good sheep myself, or wise as a serpent ("quick to observe") and as harmless as a dove (charitable). Explaining what I am observing and doing, as age-appropriate, can help model what I'm trying to teach. From there, as a "watchman," it's a balance of holding their hands and letting them climb up the monkey bars and slides themselves (actually and metaphorically), which I think teaches them to observe, discern, and have the confidence to act and to do their best (the basis for charity). Reading scripture stories from the earliest age helps them see that people are not always as nice as they appear -- I always like to use Aesop's fables and some of the fairy tales as well. Then there is the more frank and direct approach with child safety instruction.

A good example (perhaps): I grew up in NYC and from the earliest age my mother taught us to always walk briskly as if I was on my way to meet someone, and always look ahead. I still walk that way LOL "Man on mission" they say... She also taught us to follow our conscience, instruction which has served me well all my life. I think that gift helps us know right from wrong for ourselves, but also for our situations and circumstances and for recognizing wolves.

I think teaching a child to follow his conscience helps him develop / trust his intuition, and teaching him to walk helps him develop / trust his five sense.

I like to talk frankly with my children, considering their ages and personalities. We talk about our own experiences, but also real events in the news or of people we know and hypothetical situations.  I talk about how I decided that a gesture was a manipulation and how I dealt with it, or how I'd do so if given a second chance.

We talk about character a lot and being kind is an important standard in our home, but so is justice.  So it's like our little family is the lab where we drill down into both of these principles. Hopefully this can raise their "judgment of character IQs."

[jkwilliams]

For some of us, it's a tough lesson to learn to be wary of other people. Many of us grew up believing that people were essentially good, so we would trust them until we had reason not to. But sad experience teaches that it has to be the other way around. I would really despair if I had to assume that people are bad/evil/untrustworthy by nature, but trust must be earned.

[Meadowchik]

46 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Dr. Phil's approach is to teach our kids (and to learn ourselves) that we don't owe anyone the benefit of the doubt. 

Don't assume people we've just met or are strangers are nice, don't assume they are trustworthy, don't assume they mean you no harm.  Don't think that part of being polite or having manners is that we need to assume those things.  

Treat them neutral until you know them better.  

For younger kids, I've seen the new emphasis now in America is to teach them about tricky people rather than stranger danger. It involves helping them to spot people that aren't safe because they tell lies or try to trick others into doing things they shouldn't or try to get you to keep secrets, etc. 

"Tricky people," that's good.  The concept of manipulation and what it may look like so we can recognize it in real life. 

The story of the stranger saying, "I don't get a hug?" is an example. He puts her in the position of "bad guy" if she does anything but agree.

First and foremost a child needs to know their own power and right to choose, I'd say.  Once that is solid, I think they're more likely to come up with a defense, deflection, or whatever to protect themselves.

With the story of the stranger, the woman was overwhelmed and just started to cry.  People noticed including the bus driver and intervened.

[Meadowchik]

20 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I used to live in NYC in the 70's, west village, worked nights went to school days,  took the train home late to Astor place, east village, and walked through deserted streets. You had to walk down the middle of the street so no one could grab you from the doorways. I did get robbed once by four guys with knives 

Very scary. But I did learn from that to be very careful in all situations.

Our karate class recently had a practice session focused on self-defense.  I took the occasion to ask the instructor how the defense moves would apply when the attacker has a knife or gun.  He said that, speaking for himself, even if it were a knife, he'd run.  This is a guy who teaches the black belts (I'm not one) and he would not risk his life or money fighting.

One thing I've learned recently is that the scariest person is the one who is willing to do anything.  If they have no personal qualms or rules they live by, they're the least predictable and may be the most dangerous.

[CV75]

34 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I used to live in NYC in the 70's, west village, worked nights went to school days,  took the train home late to Astor place, east village, and walked through deserted streets. You had to walk down the middle of the street so no one could grab you from the doorways. I did get robbed once by four guys with knives 

Very scary. But I did learn from that to be very careful in all situations.

We lived in Stuyvesant Town until middle school (moved "to the country" in the late 60's)... My parents took art classes at NYU ("Professor Howard Simon" they called him). I'm trying to post a coupe of1970s photos from the West Village (Cafe Wha'?). what's this "Remove Formatting' all about?

[CV75]

31 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I like to talk frankly with my children, considering their ages and personalities. We talk about our own experiences, but also real events in the news or of people we know and hypothetical situations.  I talk about how I decided that a gesture was a manipulation and how I dealt with it, or how I'd do so if given a second chance.

We talk about character a lot and being kind is an important standard in our home, but so is justice.  So it's like our little family is the lab where we drill down into both of these principles. Hopefully this can raise their "judgment of character IQs."

Talking, and keeping talking, is always great! I think when parents and children build that trustworthiness, they know what it takles to be trustworthy and can spot those who are not... and trust their own judgement!

Edited May 27, 2016 by CV75

[rodheadlee]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Don't be too sure about them either.  Oops, I meant quote Rodheadlee's quote, sorry Jeanne!

Family is not necessarily blood family, I have blood family that I don't trust, they are wolves. I have people that are not blood family but are Family, they have earned my trust and I theirs. They are adopted into my Family and into my circle of trust, they become my brothers and sisters by adoption.

[jkwilliams]

Not long ago I asked my daughter, who is 25, if anyone had ever acted inappropriately that she had never told me about it. We taught our kids to tell us about such things. 

She said the only time she remembered was her "standards night" in Texas when the man leading the meeting got "way too graphic and gross." I asked her what he had said, and she said she didn't want to talk about it because it had taken her a long time to get over the "trauma."

[rodheadlee]

52 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Our karate class recently had a practice session focused on self-defense.  I took the occasion to ask the instructor how the defense moves would apply when the attacker has a knife or gun.  He said that, speaking for himself, even if it were a knife, he'd run.  This is a guy who teaches the black belts (I'm not one) and he would not risk his life or money fighting.

One thing I've learned recently is that the scariest person is the one who is willing to do anything.  If they have no personal qualms or rules they live by, they're the least predictable and may be the most dangerous.

Watch the movie Miss Congeniality, it's goofy but you can learn from it. SING. Solarplex, instep, nose, groin.

[mfbukowski]

7 hours ago, CV75 said:

We lived in Stuyvesant Town until middle school (moved "to the country" in the late 60's)... My parents took art classes at NYU ("Professor Howard Simon" they called him). I'm trying to post a coupe of1970s photos from the West Village (Cafe Wha'?). what's this "Remove Formatting' all about?

Heck yeah! Used to go there, I lived in NYU student housing on Washington Square West. Best location in the world. Felt like I was living in the center of the universe. Bob Dylan live down the street. I literally ran into John Lennon once. I used to drink where Dylan Thomas used to drink. I thought it was pretty hot. All before I became a Mormon who would have thunk

Edited May 27, 2016 by mfbukowski
Corrected typos that made the post unintelligible. It is slightly better now

[Jeanne]

9 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

There was this Australian big guy in my home ward who was married, but would kiss all the young women he considered pretty on the cheek and bring up their names during fast and testimony meeting. He was eventually arrested when it was found out he slept with one of the Mia maids. You have to watch out who's flirting with the Young women.

I know people like this..they were the ones who pinched me on the rear....in church.

[Jeanne]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Don't be too sure about them either.  Oops, I meant quote Rodheadlee's quote, sorry Jeanne!

Oh...I have never done that before...!  Don't be sorry...that was a Jeanne thing to do.

[jkwilliams]

24 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

I know people like this..they were the ones who pinched me on the rear....in church.

Ugh, that sucks. I know someone in my wife's family who I met when he was a serving bishop (I was still active at the time). I didn't like him for a number of reasons, but I found out a few years later that he had molested quite a few male and female children in my wife's family over many years. My guess is that he had never confessed because I don't think he would have been called as a bishop. Since I found out about his history, we do not have any contact with him. A few years ago, after a family reunion that I didn't attend, my 12-year-old daughter asked me, "Why don't we ever do anything with [molester]? He's really nice, and he's so normal compared to the rest of the family." I asked her what she meant by "normal," and she said, "He's Mormon." I am so glad nothing happened, but I was horrified to hear he was sitting around chatting with my daughter like that. I just told her that my wife and I did not feel he should be around our children and left it at that.